r/OnePieceTC • u/Alittledod • Apr 20 '18
JPN Discussion Most underrated units?
I feel like there are some characters in OPTC that get so overlooked nowadays because of new units like Luffy/Ace, Judge and Lucy. I thought of Legend Magellan who(like in the manga/anime)is just kinda overlooked despite how cool he is(imo). Same for characters like g-5 Tashigi and 20th anniversary Nami. So it made me think. Are there any characters that you think desperately need more attention even in todays standards?
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u/pitanger The hunt is over. Apr 20 '18
Legend Ene-gets burnt alive by 90% of the sub
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u/plsdontrelease7stars Promising Rookie Apr 20 '18
Ehh he’s not horrible he certainly doesn’t deserve the hate he gets, kind of like 6*+ shanks
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u/pitanger The hunt is over. Apr 20 '18
to be fair I'm pretty sure that Enel is one of th safest legend for forests, as long as there isn't any anti healing in it. Does that make the cut for him to be considered on par with the other recent legend ? Far from that unfortunately.
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u/plsdontrelease7stars Promising Rookie Apr 21 '18
I think so, you have the Wb ship too which is good for him
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u/Alittledod Apr 20 '18
I think the only reason he does get that hate is due to the x2.75 att where nowadays its all about anything above x3(for legends) like Lucy, Judge, V2 Doffy. Not that he’s bad, just kinda not to best legend standards. Even though I use him a lot. Even beat 2nd raid doffy with him.
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u/plsdontrelease7stars Promising Rookie Apr 21 '18
He’s a 2 - 3.25 attack booster. I think what people hate him is because of his crew health cut
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u/jjlinx Apr 21 '18
The main problem I see is his max damage for his special is 2 million. That's just not enough for the more difficult content.
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u/radicalbyte Apr 21 '18
His problem is you need to heal 10k the turn before you burst, and charging his special takes forever even with Marco/Shirahoshi.
If he was 3.25x constant then he would be an excellent captain.
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u/Sir-Battle-Tuna Promising Rookie Apr 20 '18
Enel is a bad legend imo. Needs a plus badly. Seems extremely fun tho
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u/Kami_Blake_Aur Apr 21 '18
He’s really not a bad legend at all tho and one of the more unique ones we’ve seen. He’s a max potential 3.25x boost and encourages healing. He’s only real issue is that he reduces health and his base boost could definitely be higher. His special also nukes for 2 million at max (4 million with double enel). This kills most bosses and gets rid of a significant amount of HP for the rest. You also have to keep in mind that he was designed to be a forest killer which he does perfectly. He’s a good legend all around. Sure he could be better and isn’t broken like the ones today.
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u/Sir-Battle-Tuna Promising Rookie Apr 21 '18
He has more issues. He doesn't do well against enemy's with barriers unless you own v1 law, he isn't very f2p friendly, and he needs rcv orbs which is great but if someone shuffles them away then it can be an issue. Being a legend designed to be a forest killer doesn't help if teams are now beating forests with such ease. Just look at how corazon has turned out. I think enel deff needs some buffs to become good again. Oh he also is absolute garbage if orbs are sealed. Forgot to mention that.
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u/Kami_Blake_Aur Apr 21 '18
None of what you mentioned is a problem that solely exists for legend enel and makes him “Garbage”. Any legend that relies on matching orbs or certain orbs for their max potential boost is greatly impeded by orb shuffling, preemptive changes, or orb sealing. V1 Akainu and Judge both only give a 2.25x boost (so .25x higher than Enel’s base boost which I already said could be higher) without str and matching orbs respectively (judge even has the effect of making it less likely to get matching orbs unless you have his family or someone has a crew skill to make psy count as matching). Hell Neko gives no boost without color orbs. As for barriers, yes his special doesn’t go through them making him worse against them. The same goes for literally any high damage dealing special or hp cut and the legends (other than BB) who are well known for them. V1 Fuji, WB, Mihawk, and even V2 Doffy live off of their hp cut/high damage specials, yet none of them can do squat against barriers without 6+ v1 law either. Also it doesn’t matter how easily new legends clear forests so long as enel performs his job adequately. Now is Enel the best legend? No. Could he use some buffs? Well sure, any legend could and I’d say enel wouldn’t suffer from a higher base boost, higher max boost, or whatever else. That said he certainly isn’t “Garbage” and isn’t in immediate need of a 6+ to be good like other legends
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u/Sir-Battle-Tuna Promising Rookie Apr 21 '18
Well the other legends have something to fall back on if their damage dealing specials don't go through barriers. Enel does not. That's his entire gimmick. Deal with low health and needing food orbs to do at most 2 mill damage with a special (4 with double). He isn't the worst legend but he is deff a bad one. And btw I saw you got triggered but I said garbage when orbs are sealed, which he is, and not garbage in general, which I'll say now he kinda is but does have the fun aspect going for him. Now he is very fun and has a unique way to play the game but he has lots of issues that make him harder to play with compared to a lot legends and that's why he is bad. And wether other legends have issues too doesn't mean his are any less an issue. The problem with enel is they start to stack up and unlike most legends enel doesn't exactly get a lot of sub support. This makes team building with enel a pain. And if you don't have certain units that help with barriers, then he isn't worth running at all. Low health is great for healing but he can't really tank major hits. His multiplier being from 2x-3.25x based on how much you heal the previous turn can't be a pain to deal with. And there is other issues but it's getting late so I rather not ramble on. Enel is fun but is pretty bad too. Not bottom tier but deff not close to top tier.
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u/Kami_Blake_Aur Apr 21 '18
“Btw I saw you got triggered”, no you didn’t. You saw I responded to someone who’s view I did not agree with. How in the world you saw I got “triggered” through emotionless words I will never understand. I love finding people on the reddit who seem to be able to transcend the limitations of an online conversation and sense emotion in every word. Its always nice to find someone with supernatural powers. Oh and I’ll tell you now I actually am triggered on this point. Simply because the amount of times you get called “triggered”, “angry”, of “salty” for disagreeing with someone is ridiculous.
Now back on the topic at hand, you seem to believe that the other legends mentioned have something amazing to fall back on when they don’t or at least nothing significantly better than Enel. Once again Neko gives no boost with sealed orbs or for that matter with any non color orbs. He’s easily considered on the top tier or better legends yet suffers greatly from an issue that you say makes. Neko’s special (which makes all color orbs count as beneficial and does 60x damage to one enemy) does nothing to solve the issue and for that matter nothing useful if orbs are sealed. Similarly Judge (definitely considered top tier) will only have a 2.25x boost without matching orbs and his special (orb change and 2x boost) does nothing if orbs are sealed. On the other hand enel will still have at least a 2x boost and if you’ve already done enough healing for his special, its still possible to deal heavy damage or kill a boss with it alone.
Likewise perhaps the most redeeming feature for Mihawk and the most broken for V2 Doffy is the high special damage they do which is great for revives and killing bosses. However, they can’t use their specials against barriers either without law and Doffy can’t even put law in his team with the driven only restriction. But of course they have high damage to make up for this with, not like Enel likewise has a nice boost of 3.25x he can fall back on. Not like that’s still quite high (though not broken) and enough to kill most bosses with the usual attack and orb boost or possible conditional boost and chain lock.
Team building can be a pain with Enel. As it can with any legend with a condition. BB and Judge are prime examples of this. At least with Enel you’re not restricted in who you bring and the only issue is choosing who’s most optimal for your team. This isn’t even an issue so much as team building in general.
You do realize barriers don’t exist in every possible content right? And if they do they normally exist on fodder stages (where on hope you don’t try and use enel’s special). Not running enel because there will be a barrier on fodded stage is ridiculous and even if its the boss stage you still have access to a 3.25x multiplier so long as you healed before hand which again should be enough for most bosses.
Yes Enel does have a gimmick that can be a pain and the reduced health can be a problem for tanking attacks. If you have trouble tanking heavy hits bring the coated sunny or another damage reducing, he’ll just heal what you did tank back. But again none of these are game breaking, certainly things that could be fixed in a 6+, but none of which makes him anywhere near garbage in general. You seem to believe that while he isn’t bottom teir he’s as close as possible to it, which isn’t the case. He could use improvements to better match the meta and current status of the game, but so could every legend released not recently relessed and even those recently released in maybe a year or so.
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u/Sir-Battle-Tuna Promising Rookie Apr 21 '18
Yea so you can't hand pick issues from better legends as a comparison to make enel look better. Because it doesn't. Neko and doffy may have issues similar to enel but they are way better. Enel is a bad legend.
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u/Kami_Blake_Aur Apr 21 '18
I’m not hand picking issues with Enel. I’m taking the issues you point out that make him a “bad legend” and showing that other legends have the same problem and Enel has more resistance to it than you claim. I use other legends with the same issue to show that they aren’t nearly as game breaking or legend status destroying as you seem to believe. The only issues limited to Enel only is his lower hp and healing gimmick. But if you’re just going to ignore everything I said with an “uh yeah, but Neko’s good because and Enel isn’t er duh”. Then this conversation is over
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u/RoMarX . Apr 20 '18
He is not bad at all, i easily farmed Colo Raizo with double Enel, probably the hardest Colo on global for now, so it's safe to say he can clear pretty much every content that doesn't directly counter him (like Non-healing or inv-Cavendish)
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u/Bendini Waifu in flair Apr 21 '18
which team did you use?
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u/RoMarX . Apr 21 '18
Enel, Enel, Raid Aokiji, Shirahoshi, raid Sabo, Sandersonia. It's not fast but it's really safe.
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Apr 20 '18
Legend Franky. I find him really fun and different, but I don't see many people talking about him.
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u/Kami_Blake_Aur Apr 21 '18
He got a lot of hype and attention when he was announced but I haven’t seen much talk of him since (aside from the random PSAs about his captain action). Weird
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u/yorunomegami Apr 21 '18
It's because you only boost one Franky of those two available with activating and not both so instead of a potential x16 he boosts x12 - plus those additional class depending boosts. That killed the hype for many
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u/kevin12244 Apr 21 '18
If you want more burst you can pair him with other captain like Luffy/Ace, Aokiji v2, or Lucy though.
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u/yorunomegami Apr 21 '18
True, but this sub either hypes a unit or bashes it. And if you use Franky paired with one of those people will instantly scream 'using double xyz is way better than using Franky'
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u/kevin12244 Apr 21 '18
Yep, that's just too bad. Franky substitute might not be as good as a double captain, but he comes very close - perhaps the best substitute for any of these legend. Being able to pair with 3 top tier captain to make their respective team (free spirit, qck-psy, str-dex-qck) is something no should discount.
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u/inaderantaro Will you die? Or will you fight? Apr 21 '18
Franky player here and there are way more Lucy FC than Franky even though I have no Lucy. So I mostly use Franky + Lucy. Go with some fighter/slasher subs and the burst damage is higher than double Lucy.
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u/Kami_Blake_Aur Apr 21 '18
A 12x boost is still pretty good, but I see the point. High multipliers and easy to use legends pretty much dominate right now
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u/Naninator911 Promising Rookie Apr 21 '18
My V1 Law Cries in a corner while being bullied by new legends
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u/Kami_Blake_Aur Apr 21 '18
V1 Law’s doing fine right now with his 6+. Great sub and pretty amazing captain with the new 2.5x base boost and 1k heal (3k unconditional heal every turn with max autoheal and double law). There was recently a video of him clearing all forests I believe after his 6+ release
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u/I_Kan_Spel The legend we need, the legend we don't deserve Apr 21 '18
Hol' up. 3K heal per turn with 6+ laws? Darn, time to get grinding extra yellow skulls just for him. I maxxed everything else already :o
My hype for him just doubled. I was aware of his existence, but none of the details
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u/nemaux Apr 21 '18
I pulled him like a month ago and was at first very disapointed
but now I just love him, he is useful everywhere, helps me to speed up the farming, has a unique special and has some nice power as a captain
in the end, glad I pulled him :)
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u/brbdetox 103544795 £/Toxy Apr 21 '18
v1 fujitora, his special and his health boost is literally insane tbh, if you pair him up with the subs you can find nowadays he in still an insane captain on his own, and then beyond that you can pair him up with doffy v2 also
He is just overlooked because he is a slow captain mostly and you have to really plan your runs not just go in and destroy like for example lucy
He will always have a special place in my heart!
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u/12zoro Apr 21 '18
I feel the same way.When doffy v2 and TM cabbage hits global,he is going to see a lot of use from me-that is assuming I have doffy v2 friends.With these 3,your fuji will always have a 3x boost and others will have 5/6 chance of matching orbs(since doffy heavily reduces STR orb rate).
Combine that with being able to extend cabbage's buffs duration to 3 turns with gloffy,they will make an awesome tanky and powerful team.
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u/yorunomegami Apr 21 '18
It already is. You can easily clear forests with those 3 (including Law's without stalling out the debuff). I even think those are one of the fastest options to clear forests. I'm glad i have more than one v1 Fuji so if they decide to change his CA i can still pair him with Doffy and have a 6+ Fuji.
As i don't own Doffy i often use Fuji with Doffy friend plus TM Cavendish and Pica sub, paired with utility units (most of the time Barto). That team also easily clears Inv Garp
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u/tacosconcarne Apr 21 '18
For a bit more perspective, making TND/RCV beneficial means you don't need to LB PSY Sugar and STR Trebol for full matching Driven team which is really nice.
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u/halzgen Apr 21 '18
Fuji v1 is strong and once was one of the strongest leads and became strongest at one point when driven was the top tier. He is not overlooked. He is just like other legends that once reign and overthrown by new legends. If you don't know. He was talked about in this sub a year ago. So I wouldn't say he was underrated.
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u/TheDawnWeeps Apr 21 '18
I think op's point is that people overlook that he's now strong AGAIN because of relatively recent driven support
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u/CONDORBASS Apr 21 '18
One of my 3 first legends...unfortunately i'm not using him since a while, but reading that, i'm curious to know how he's paired with doffy v2 and his batch.
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u/brbdetox 103544795 £/Toxy Apr 21 '18
He gets amazing with v2 doffy and batch, full matching orbs all the time for whole crew and hp with doffy is rly good to smash thru the pre-stages with just normal attacks for later burst and then doffy special kills everything
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u/CONDORBASS Apr 21 '18
Yeah, i was just realizing how good fuji v1 can be after doffy v2. Almost every time full orb, so x3 atk, plus hp cutter. I'll try have fun with that. What team could be good? The first thing that came in mind has been: Doffy | Fuji Barto QCK | Cavendish DEX Sugar PSY | Trebol STR
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u/Rolonoa_Zolo Apr 20 '18
V2 Law as a captain. If you have Neko then there's no point in using him as a captain, but I don't have him and my friends barely use him!
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u/them33k [GLB]: 073 813 359 [JPN]: 535 563 362 Apr 20 '18
Same. He's my go-to captain, plus the Boa Sisters are perfect for him, and you can pair him with Lucy!
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u/SirVampyr Warlord of Sugos, Aim for "Reds" Apr 20 '18
I got Neko and Law V2 and he can still see use. Eventhough Shirahoshi handles my block orbs. In some cases, you need more than one turn of consistent damage. Also V2 Law has healing, if you wanna work with Legend Enel.
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u/CapitalNourishment Apr 21 '18
He's all over my friends list, but I used to have a lot mor 6+s so you can put 2 and 2 together on that one
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Apr 21 '18
I have him and Neko max and I use him as a sub but I could use him as captain whenever you need me to have him as one.
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u/Kami_Blake_Aur Apr 21 '18
Honestly if you have 6+ Barto there’s little to no point in using him as a captain, especially since barto has access to more subs
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u/DodoKnight mochi boi Apr 21 '18
interesting that everybody says they barely have any law friends. i usually use my neko over him but i always have a ton of laws up even now during TM where he is not even boosted.
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u/Alittledod Apr 20 '18
Yeah I got Neko luckily(but no law hm :( )I could only imagine people not using Neko for his captain ability mostly cause its a hit or miss. a double Neko team would be amazing when you have good orbs but the moment you get tnd/rcv/etc. you’re pretty much screwed.
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u/quantumbreak1 Promising Rookie Apr 21 '18
well thats why you have slot boost + aokijis bike + sandersonia/urouge
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u/Duk0 GlbID: 579-083-537|G4V2, BM, AkainuV2, ShanksV2, Lace, Katakuri Apr 20 '18
I have him max5 and with 3/5/3 LB, but like you, I can rarely use him because almost noone uses him. Please add me if you still need a LawV2 friend: 484 374 180
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u/CapitalNourishment Apr 21 '18
Kizaru is one of my favourite subs, but I'm still on that slasher kick whenever Im not using Law 6+ or Akainu because I lack a striker or powerhouse(besides Hody) captain. His heal can be a savior and his multi hit knocks out hit barriers and that's completely disregarding his main use
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u/Kami_Blake_Aur Apr 21 '18
The problem with Kizaru is his “main use” is slowly becoming more and more of a waste. More and more we see units that provide orbs and something else or crew skills that make so many orbs count as matching you don’t need orb changers (the same goes for captains). Kizaru was a god sub on Slasher and Shooter teams, but now the best slasher captain (and friend captain) provides matching orbs himself and one the best and most used shooter captains makes all color orbs beneficial. What point is there in wasting an extra slot for an orb changer sub right now? It really hurt Kizaru that his 6+ didn’t give his special the extta boost he needed. Right now as a sub he is JUST a mini healer (if you need a heal there exist better options that heal for more and provide other utility support use) or a combo barrier killer (well he doesn’t even have this on slasher teams with V2 fuji. Plus there are specials that bypass barriers and even LB powers now).
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u/CONDORBASS Apr 21 '18
Sure Kizaru has a niche use if compared to other orb shufflers, but the main point in using Kizaru is the heal he provides. In a slasher team can be useful, of niche, but useful. Sometimes it's that special that can say if you can complete that specific run or not. It's like Marco. I don't have them both, but i would be happy pulling them. Surely i have shira, but with all these millions hp we need to go through, the class boost help a lot.
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Apr 21 '18
IMO pretty much every legend that this sub memes on for being awful are never as bad as everyone makes them sound. Except for maybe Log Luffy, he's probably the only legend I will never ever touch again.
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u/inspect0r6 Apr 20 '18
Magellan is just slow-ish and requires serious teambuilding without massive pay-off that someone like Judge has. But, he is really neat unit to have, you never know when you might need him. Also good type and classes. 20th Nami is definition of situational unit and Tashigi is just completely replaced by Pedro on cerebral, and slashers usually bring other stuff instead of affinity booster. Her stats are also terrible.
Can't think of many underrated units, most that come to mind are niche by design. I guess it was RR STR Moria, but he got some spotlight after Akainu v2 release. And I don't see Jabra mentioned too often, he's quite decent and fits on several teams when limit broken to get that low cd.
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u/madgoblin92 All legends Apr 20 '18 edited Apr 20 '18
Against any boss with no poison debuff. Magellan/Magellan + 4 color Healer/Damage reducer. What serious team building?
Edit: With Magellan, it basically comes down to 2 option: You can use magellan or you cannot. If you can, the above team; if not, don't even try.
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Apr 20 '18
You can easily use Magellan on an immune enemy now that invasion Garp exists.
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u/Babar669 Apr 21 '18
Even before that, the +/- 30% cut every turn is amazing. If you cannot poison the enemy you can still heal with is special making stalling very easy. Then you just need some burst power (like sabo or inuarashi) for the final blow. He is really strong imo. But I don't think he was ever underrated. On the contrary. He was always extremely safe and reliable lead.
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u/pitanger The hunt is over. Apr 21 '18
Man I can't wait for Raid Barto, he's gonna be so useful for Magellan teams, basically RR Inazuma + RR Marco paired together !
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u/infinite_stall Apr 21 '18
The only downside is that he takes the place of Neo-Sabo who is really good for that final burst if the boss revives.
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u/pitanger The hunt is over. Apr 21 '18
Usually if the boss revives with less than 2M HP, unless he clears debuffs he will be insta killed the turn right after. Raid Sabo is great to clear mini bosses with immunity, but "ad x times attack" will soon become more common, with RR Garp V2 and LRR Leo. also if you have legend Inua, the problem is solved (before you would get handicapped by the great loss of HP, but now we'll have Barto so no more problem)
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u/DestinyJoke Never give up Apr 21 '18
Your point with 2 million health revive is not completely right because you forgot the 27,75% health cut from both Magellans :)
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u/pitanger The hunt is over. Apr 21 '18
true, that's actually even more than 2 M, something like 2,700,000. Not exactly sure how to calculate that, I haven't done any maths for a while :/
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u/inspect0r6 Apr 20 '18
Good healers and damage reducers don't grow on trees. And slapping random units can only get you so far.
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u/madgoblin92 All legends Apr 20 '18
They sure don't. You need to farm them! FN Mansherry, Colo Ain, OG Alvida, Colo Alvida, Swimsuit Perona, Raid Barto, FN Giolla etc. Slap in Raid Aokiji and you have a team.
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Apr 21 '18
I've had good luck with these lately.
My team is
Double Magellan/Anni Shanks/Legend Barto/Psy Marco/Int Ivankov
Funnily enough, the bosses don't really last long enough for me to have to use Iva. I just use Marco and Magellan's healing takes care of the rest. Takes a bit of planning though. You have to do a bit of calculating to know when to use Barto to survive low health nukes.
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u/lwest427 Barto V2 when? Apr 20 '18
F2P you can very easily drop 99% of poisonable content with double Magellan with Raid Barto, Alvida, Perona and any QCK character. I like Neo Mihawk personally.
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Apr 20 '18
20th Anniversary Nami is a freaking beast. I use her on almost all my teams.
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u/inspect0r6 Apr 20 '18
Sorry, but no. You might use her often, but she won't make it on most teams unless it's some really specific content for threshold removal and that doesn't pop up too often and can be dealt through other means. She was really amazing for neo Enel at the time.
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Apr 20 '18
hmm well this is my main team...max special for all, but still feel it needs a bit of stalling (around 10 turns).
Nami and Shirahoshi keep me safe :)
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u/optclinkbot link-decoder Apr 20 '18
- Merry Go Lv. MAX
- 2023 - 6* LV.99 Sakazuki, Decisive Deadly Battle (HP: +0, ATK: +0, RCV: +0)
- 2023 - 6* LV.99 Sakazuki, Decisive Deadly Battle (HP: +0, ATK: +0, RCV: +0)
- 1757 - 5* LV.99 Nami, 20th Anniversary Memorial Treasure (HP: +0, ATK: +0, RCV: +0)
- 1926 - 5* LV.99 Coby, Marine HQ Captain (HP: +0, ATK: +0, RCV: +0)
- 1588 - 6* LV.99 Sanji, Germa Kingdom Prince (HP: +0, ATK: +0, RCV: +0)
- 1473 - 6* LV.99 Shirahoshi-hime, Ryugu Kingdom Princess (HP: +0, ATK: +0, RCV: +0)
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u/Alittledod Apr 20 '18
Those are fair points(although sadly I dont have Pedro on JPN r.i.p)but yeah I see what you mean. Also obviously Nami is used more as a sub than a captain so cant say too much there lol
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u/Doffy-Mingo Mingo!!!!! Apr 21 '18
I used to think Legend Sanji was underrated, but in this day and age, he just provides too little.
For me it would be Franky, Sengoku, and Magellan (but as a captain)
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u/theacemonkey Skada 30 legends Apr 21 '18
I think Boa v2 is pretty underrated. With kizaru ship she is such a fast and safe legend to run content with. And she has some really good subs like RR Marguerite.
And when you have some shooters legends like Usopp 6+, Kizaru 6+, Ace 6+ she just blows every content away without any effort.
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u/inaderantaro Will you die? Or will you fight? Apr 21 '18
I think it's more like a problem with shooter: You need Marguite or at least Van Augur/ TS Usopp (conditional). If not you are stuck with 1.5 orb boost or Raid Doffy (who obviously doesnt get boosted).
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u/halzgen Apr 21 '18
Underrated in terms of legends? Because I personally don't believe in underrated sub units. They have their own merits and used in specific content. In today's standards. There is no more such thing as one team beats all unlike before. So if it just legends, I would say magellan and lucci 6+ considering that he was forgotten because of qck lucci. Which IMO is a bad idea if you will be creating 2 legends that boost same type and same character but the newer one is better in every way. Lucci 6+ is still strong but if you have both lucci, there is no reason to use the old one except for contents that prevents you from using orb control which is so few.
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u/yorunomegami Apr 21 '18
True. I had 6+ Lucci long time before i pulled Lucci. As the old 6 was mainly used as a sub i have a non bind/despair setup on him (he was mainly used as a Sakazuki and fighter sub ). Now with having pulled Lucci i'm glad i haven't changed old Lucci's sockets but i can hardly find a team Lucci will find usage besides the one you mentioned.
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u/halzgen Apr 21 '18
Unlike wb, boa, sabo and ray. Those old legends were just reduced down to subs but still can be used quite often. They had the opportunity to improve his special in 6+ but all they did was increase the damage to 75x and rate of orbs. His special is basically "wait a turn to achieve effect" which is not safe in the current meta.
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u/yorunomegami Apr 21 '18
Paired with WB+ you'll get the shuffle immediately, but it's definitely not that good. I think his 6+ was one of those that mainly focused on the CA (and they did that well but a captains half life period is way shorter than a sub one.
He'd be way better if Lucci wouldn't be a Lucci but an other powerhouse captain. Maybe he'll see some play once we'll get another PH captains. But if you own both Luccis using the str one is basically just because you want to or a potential orbshuffle (and you don't own Shirahoshi).
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u/tacosconcarne Apr 21 '18
RR Bellamy removes 3 turns of Def Up and Threshold, yes Trebol does the same thing but better, but Bellamy was quite a common pull compared to him. He also ends on a 9 turn cd when maxed compared to Trebols 13 turns meaning he can combine with the other 10 or below cd characters for speed farming.
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u/ShadowXZelda Apr 21 '18
V2 Shanks no one really mentions him in the top tier legends. I have like 5 people with him on my friend list.
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u/Vonhellstaker I just want neko and lucy could be friends Apr 20 '18
Legend shirahoshi I have to say she have one of the best specials yet in the game
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u/inspect0r6 Apr 20 '18
Was she really underrated? I'm pretty sure most people would agree she is best sub in the game.
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u/pitanger The hunt is over. Apr 20 '18
I've yet to hear of anybody who called Shira bad oO
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u/Kami_Blake_Aur Apr 21 '18
The post doesn’t ask for units that are called bad just those that have overlooked due to recent legend releases. I’d certainly say I haven’t heard as much about Shira recently as I have in the past. Sure she’s praised when mentioned, but how often is she mentioned now as compared to Luffy/Ace?
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u/pitanger The hunt is over. Apr 21 '18
considering that we are talking about "underrated" units, bad is a synonym of overlooked in this case, because the amount of games the unit is used is directly influenced by the usefulness of the said unit.
Regarding Shira's rate of usage, still as often as before ? She's still the universal beneficial orb giver that can be used pretty much everywhere unless it breaks the team's requirement (Doffy V2, Lucy etc) Nothing has changed and Shira is still one of the best sub in the game.
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u/Kami_Blake_Aur Apr 21 '18
There is quite the difference between overlooked, underrated, and bad at least the way I use them. I can’t speak for how others use the words. Overlooked refers to something or someone that just often isn’t considered. Its not necessarily bad or underrated as it just isn’t talked about much due to being overshadowed by someone or something else or possibly just not getting its name at there much. I’d definitely say Shirahoshi falls under this category. Since we’ve gotten new OP legends you hear less about her. Of course she’s still a great unit, you just don’t hear about her as much.
On the other hand underrated means what it says underrated. It refers to something that is good to those that know about it, but often can go under the radar. This is where we see the similarity to overlooked, but it seems to differ in that it doesn’t necessarily mean overshadowed (or less heard of), but also that something can be harshly or wrongly judged. This would be calling something much worse than it actually is.
On the other other hand bad is just in general bad. While the term cn be subjective with what’s “bad” changing from person to person, in this case it would refer to a unit that performs poorly or has little use.
Just my 2 cents. Following this and my personal view I’d say Shira could be identified as overlooked (what the OP asked for) simply because she isn’t mentioned as much and gets overshadowed by newer legends. She isn’t underrated because she always gets praise when mentioned nor is she bad because as you said she sees god level sub use on any team that can use her.
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u/pitanger The hunt is over. Apr 21 '18 edited Apr 21 '18
welp, be it either on the semantical point of view or on the fact that Shira is overlooked, I completely disagree with you. But hey that's your opinion and I respect it.
edit : the fuck, guys don't downvote him, what the hell is your problem ?
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u/yorunomegami Apr 21 '18
Maybe it's just me but i use her all the time (poor Marco, because i haven't use him ~1 year now).
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u/Kami_Blake_Aur Apr 21 '18
Same here. I’m not saying her usage has gone down, but the hype and mention of her in general due to newer legends overshadowing her and other old ones
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u/yorunomegami Apr 21 '18 edited Apr 21 '18
She's a staple sub for harder content in many teams. Overall i think this sub prefers talking about captains and ignoring subs. Atm she almost always heals back to 100% (unless you run some hp based teams, like double 3d2y Usopp, that hardly see play nowadays) which only Marco can reliable do otherwise, but the main aspect which makes her unique is that she basically allows ignoring orbshuffle mechanics (e.g. like coli Raizo) and therefore trivialises a lot of content
Additionally to the difference between the amount of talking about subs and captains, most people prefer talking about completely overpowered captains and tend to ignore those that can clear content but not as fast as others. To pick coli Raizo again, i farmed him when he appeared for the first time with a double Shirahoshi team which was ofc slower than others but i was able to play brain afk (and clear it in ~8min iirc) instead of ~5min and being able to fail if i mess up my burst turn.
edit: In the end it's the same reason like the Franky posts in this thread, any captain that doesn't outdamage all other earlier released legends, ideally during burst turns and regular turns AND doesn't have an overpowered special isn't worth noticing. But ofc the same people complain about recent powercreep etc
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u/inaderantaro Will you die? Or will you fight? Apr 21 '18
Lol no one talk about Barto. His + is great make him boost 2 class and SA is either used as survival or mini boss killer (maxed at 13 turns including LB).But he is overshadowed by Doffy V2, or Neko. Hardly find him as cap even with same captain.
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Apr 21 '18
Legend Sanji and Legend Shirahoshi are probably my most wanted underrated units. I would especially love sanji though.
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u/suddenforce Apr 21 '18
How abt most overated,like Legend Lucci v2, he suck D.
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u/Doffy-Mingo Mingo!!!!! Apr 21 '18
Why would you say that? He is arguably the best Powerhouse exclusive lead in the game.
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u/Kami_Blake_Aur Apr 21 '18
Honestly he’s not even better than V1 6+ Lucci. Sure he gives a boost of 4x for max, but he doesn’t even hit a multiplier above 3.5x until the 4th perfect and the boost above 4x is just for the last hit. This isn’t much better than a constant 3.5x boost (if not better at all. I haven’t actually checked). As for his special he gives orbs for one turn while V1 gives them over three (and that turn if combined with an orb randomizer like TM G4). The damage reduction and heal is really good though. All V2 Lucci seems to be is the most consistent and safe PH lead. I’d honestly say that based off of when he came out and his CA he certainly is lackluster (especially for a v2) and doesn’t deserve the praise I’ve seen him get, though i wouldn’t say he sucks
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Apr 21 '18
Honestly he’s not even better than V1 6+ Lucci.
That's simply ridiculous
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u/Kami_Blake_Aur Apr 21 '18
I love when people read a sentence nd reply with a word instead of actually respond or refuting what I said
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Apr 21 '18
Didn't know your joke of a claim needed refuting. Ok, lemme do that then.
First of all, you claim V1 Lucci has a constant 3.5x mulitplier, which is obviously not true. And it's only marginally better when your damage is on the lower end. Once you start using specials (on a burst turn for example) V2 Lucci has the higher output.
Next you say V1 Lucci gives you 3 turns of matching orbs which is also a lie. In no universe is a very high chance to get machting orbs as good as actual matching orbs. Think about colosseums with specific orb shuffles or orb rate boosts.
All V2 Lucci seems to be is the most consistent and safe PH lead
Exactly. You said it yourself. He outclasses V1 Lucci by far in every way. He can heal with food orbs (yes that's a big deal) he has a 1.2x HP boost and his special is outright better, too.
Here are some examples of V2 Lucci clearing content V1 Lucci can't (hint: using V2 Lucci or Judge or other friend captains doesn't count as V1 Lucci clearing content) : INV Garp
And the list goes on.
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u/Kami_Blake_Aur Apr 21 '18
Every claim needs refuting, no matter how much of a “joke” you think it is. To brush it aside for whatever reason just makes you look bad. Its the equivalent of being that one guy in the argument that says “um, yeah but I’m right” without actually why. Now on to the task at hand I thank you for being for kind as to grace with a response.
I never once claimed V1 Lucci to be a constant 3.5x boost. Nor did I think I was required to mention that he needed a matching orb when he’s been around so long. It may have been presumptuous on my part. Either way the point was that as far as damage multipliers went V1 and V2 Lucci were pretty much tied during the optimal burst. Whereas V1 gives a 3.5x boost for matching orb, V2 gives a gradully increasing boost that doesn’t hit 3.5x or higher until the 4th perfect.
Have you actually used V1 Lucci’s special? I have constantly and even against maps that increase the rate of certain orbs V1s lucci special will still get me matching orbs. As for specific orb changers you can once again bring any orb randomizer. I’d argue that a high chance for matching orbs over 3 turns is better than a one turn orb changer in that the orbs are more consistent over multiple turns which better allows for multi turn bursts whether than single turn.
Once again V2 Lucci is a more consistent and safer captain, that’s about it. In many ways this does allow for a better PH captain with safer runs and more stalling. I never refuted this, but the idea that V2 Lucci is some god level PH captain when his multiplier isn’t much better and all he is is safer.
Also showing V2 Lucci clearing content doesn’t prove v1 can’t. Not to mention the idea that using a friend captain doesn’t count is ridiculous when they are a f2p option that compliments a certain captain. For that matter if you want to not count a clear unless you use double of the same captain you might as well drastically decrease a lot of clear rates
For reference V1 and V2 damage wise using the same team.
Once again V2 Lucci is safer and more consistent (depending on your perfect track record) and thats it. The idea that he’s “better in everyway” is ridiculous.
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Apr 21 '18
Ok since this is pretty much getting nowhere, let's boil it down to one simple question, in which scenario would you realisticly use v1 lucci over v2 lucci?
Also showing V2 Lucci clearing content doesn’t prove v1 can’t.
Kinda does if you can't find a single example of him clearing it.
Not to mention the idea that using a friend captain doesn’t count is ridiculous
No, it's 100% needed when comparing Captains. Saying V1 Lucci is a great Captain because he can leech off of Judge or V2 Lucci to clear content doesn't mean he's doing the work. Would you say 6+ Shanks is great because V2 Shanks makes him clear lots of content? Where would he be without those friend captains?
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u/suddenforce Apr 21 '18
idk, i just think he is bad , like ppl tell beginners to start with him, and I was like what the f? Even gamewith stated it that he is not that good while global and non native japanese player rate him like s tier.
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u/LauXiah Apr 21 '18 edited Apr 21 '18
Because PH in GLB right now is probably the strongest class aside from Striker and has the most utility. You got Hody batch, Hody himself, boa sisters, you got 2x straight boosters like Raid Sanji and Raid Fuji, all F2P, and even some of the judge kids batch.
Look at v2 Boa. I'd call her underrated because in paper, she is damn amazing. 2.5 to 3.25 boost not RNG reliant (it is low now, especially post Luffy/Ace, but back when she was released, that was a pretty relevant boost), she also made TND/RCV beneficial and heals. Her special delays, gives hits which is good for hit barriers and she made type orbs beneficial for 2 turns. That's solid, but shooter has got the worst utility in game right now. Same with Ace as a captain.
That's not even saying how he is as a unit. His max multiplier is 4x, which is as high as the new legends, and he himself already gave so many utilities. Fully limit broken, he resist paralysis, probably the most annoying debuff there for a straight up wrecking team. His special is also pretty nice, coupled with Marigold, Fuji and Sanji, you already got 1.7s atk boost, 2x atk boost and 2 orb boost. A chain multiplier like Zeo gave you one more all matching orb turn and 2.5 multiplier and you're done.
A captain is as good as their subs, and with the overwhelming amount of time these good PH units are being boosted these last couple of sugos, of course you'd get recommendation for a captain that can utilize all of them well
Unless you're overpowered to hell like v2 Akainu.0
u/suddenforce Apr 21 '18
Ok, nice effort explaining though lol, didnt expect this. But I just want to say he is just not that good, compare to Lucy, Franky, Aokiji, Akainu, or any character along that line (that boost everybody or most units). He is good, just not that great, Gamewith gave him the tier and the score for a reason. People just overrate him too much, even saying that he is better than legend Franky which is a joke.
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u/yorunomegami Apr 21 '18 edited Apr 21 '18
All those legends you mentioned were released after him though and 3 out of those 4 are arguable top 5 legends right now.
He's, like already said, biS for powerhouse teams in terms of raw damage output and he doesn't get crippled by using non boosted units like a lot of those other highdmg output captains like Doffy v2, Lucy, Franky. He might not be the most powerful captain, but he can clear a lot of different content. I think gamewith had a team for nearly all content that was released since his release until now. His main downside is barrier content, but in theory he can easily be paired with BB, nowadays not really recommended through the huge amount of dmgloss.
edit: i'm torn between suggesting him for beginner and not doing so. Mainly because i don't like recommending a taptiming captain for beginner. But his plus side (having access to all characters) is a huge plus as every new (utility) char a new player gets can have its usage in a Lucci team. Lucci has access (read: can use without crippling his damage) to Shirahoshi, RaidBarto, 6* Robin, v2 Ray and so on. Ofc the sub might end up not being boosted, but Lucci's first hits don't contribute that much to his damage.
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u/suddenforce Apr 21 '18
To add his max multiplier is indeed 4 but the damage is not that high, you could even compare him to law 6+, but even worser. Yes he reach 4x, but Mr4 also reach 4x. You need to average them out to find the exact damage. Lucci is around 3.4x average not 4.
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u/LauXiah Apr 21 '18
idk, dude, no matter the multiplier, that looks pretty alright to me.
he is just not that good, compare to Lucy, Franky, Aokiji, Akainu, or any character along that line (that boost everybody or most units)
My guy, are you familiar with the concept of newer legends being stronger than the older ones, also known as powercreep? No shit they are stronger, G4 is now stronger than OG Fighter Legend Jinbe, and he used to be one of the best legends around. That doesn't make older legends like Lucci bad by default. That's just ignorant.
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u/yorunomegami Apr 21 '18
I wanted to compare him with 6+ Law in my other reply but you posted this before i mentioned him so i thought answering here (again) might be the way to go.
Comparing him with Law is overall a pretty good comparison imo. Both max ~roughly around the same multiplier, both can use non boosted units in their teams for the first few hits - at least i think both can, i'm not sure about Law, can't remember a team i haven't used full slasher/FS with him so...
Law's heal is huge, he can be paired with various leads etc and overall i think 6+ Law has a better captain ability (at the current state of the game, but FS just got buffed through the ceiling with v2 Ray and Luffy/Ace) but the point stands that Lucci is the best PH captain available. Also Lucci's special is better than Law's almost always, and if Law's special makes the difference than using a setup with Law (either as sub or lead) might be the way to go anyway.
Having said this, i don't like tap timing captains in general, with those tap timing ships their downside is easier to compensate, but i just don't like them, but out of those available like LL, v2 Fuji, Lucci and Law Lucci and Law are the ones i tend to use from time to time - i just recently pulled Lucci though, so maybe i'm biased here, but i ran Raizo coli with him just for fun and his coli is close to being the most annoying ever and i still enjoyed using Lucci.
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u/x3bo33 Promising Rookie Apr 20 '18
Legend Sanji.