r/AskMenAdvice • u/Complex_Memory_7320 • 1d ago
Patriarchy Hoax Opinion
So I have been reading that women were traditionally been opressed by men. Although to some context it is true. Whenever I think about it becomes hazy and I can't digest it. Like my ancestors and many more worked so hard all their lives so that we in present can have a better future, just to be called oppressors in modern times. Also for marraiges were women weren't treated fairly there were also men who got women like that. So it's basically comes down to like there are good people and bad people. Also now I see many countries that have baised laws have their birth rates below 2.1 . Breaking the family unit apart is the best way to break us apart in future. I guess many of us had a decent family to teach us things from both perspectives. I can't speak on this way more although I guess it would be mundane. I don't mean to come out as offensive to anyone just my thoughts and want to know about it from different perspectives.
Edit 1 :- Thank you everyone for sharing your perspective I'll try to look into each one. Also again a heartful thank you for letting me now the insights. Try to keep a unbiased view. Wish you a great time ahead. Edit 2 :- I'll be closing this thread after few days. Got much needed insight .
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u/CommunityDefiant4292 1d ago
Do you really want an opinion ? Your thread starts with HOAX Meaning you’ve already made your opinion
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u/Complex_Memory_7320 1d ago
Em.. Not exactly just want to learn from different perspectives.
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u/CommunityDefiant4292 1d ago
Sometimes people need facts
A perspective only based on personal experience will be biased. To make an educated opinion, you need facts , numbers, corroboration , and gather the experiences of different people
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u/Complex_Memory_7320 1d ago
You are the first one so eager to have a conversation and contradict my comments to some level. Much appreciated. Needed it.
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u/CommunityDefiant4292 1d ago
Not contradicting But Adding
Some of your OP are absolutely true Women in USA in 2024 are not oppressed , in general, legally speaking they have the same rights as the men
I truly disagree with some libs stating the opposite
But we as a society have to be careful , it’s easy to take away rights ! Look at abortion
My wife’s rights are to me as important as my rights I want my daughter to enjoy the same rights to work, to thrive, to be safe , to have bodily autonomy, as any guy
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u/Complex_Memory_7320 1d ago
Yes. Everyone should have freedom to do whatever they want with their lives unless they cross the line of their decisions affecting someone in negative or harmful way.
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u/CommunityDefiant4292 1d ago
It seems you have a genuine question about women rights… I will have to burst the bubble , sorry Please read all the way,
You missing the historical context Through your statement
Just talking about western countries, The legal system was set up for women to be inferior and dependent on men good will …
Here are the REAL FACTS , not some BS talk point from some conservative pundits ! The list is awfully long , THIS IS WHAT THE WOMEN OF MY & YOUR FAMILY had to live through…
These are: All the way to the 60’s Married Women couldn’t hold a job if their husbands was opposed to it, and he could keep her paycheck. They couldn’t have a bank account in their own name.
If they wanted the pill, they had to prove they needed it (had lots of kids already) and that the husband approved. When women worked, proving sexual harassment was very difficult, and it could be assumed the woman was leading / encouraging the man, Cheating was common and not ground for divorce, (if the man cheated) as long as the family wasn’t affected by it (financially) When a woman asked for divorce she had to prove why , and most likely she wouldn’t get her kids custody. When a man wanted to get rid of his wife, he’d find a complacent doctor to deem his wife unfit, have her locked up and then ask for divorce on grounds of unfitness.
The authority on the kids were given to the father, not shared. Cops were chuckling at spousal abuse. And wife beaters were rewarded or ignored.
Even women of private means, once married saw their money going under the husband tutelage… Rape was considered the girl fault (did you lead him ? Have a short dress…) It was very hard (impossible) for women to get into university to get a diploma , for the one who successfully graduated and all, it was hard even impossible to get a job in line with their qualifications (lawyers, Doctors and all) In office setting women were confined to the typing pool and secretarial functions!
Today Women rights have much improved, but society still considers it’s a woman duty to look after the kids, to have the mental charge of doing all the organizing for doctors appointments, keep track of the holidays, birthdays and all, There are much more men in politics than women and on the boards of directors…
So here in 21st century, in western countries, women have much more independence than before, but in the majority of the population on earth it’s so far from the case,
A country has just lower the age of consent to 9yo Another country has forbid education after 12yo for girls Another country has legalized marital beating, as long as it doesn’t give injuries
Sorry for such a long post Hope you read it all And realize that really women are / were oppressed
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u/here4puppers_ 1d ago
Oh my god thank you for posting this. It’s heartbreaking that men want to pretend none of this happened, everything is fine and equal, etc. I am so grateful for the progress we have made, but it’s not enough.
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u/CommunityDefiant4292 1d ago
The same goes for minorities…even worse ! The Jim Crow laws decimated population wealth and families, Same with laws from the 90’s with 3 strikes and you’re out
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u/Complex_Memory_7320 1d ago
Very well I'll look into it. Even though whenever I look into it always seems baised. Anyways thank you for your perspective glad to know it from your lens too.
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u/CommunityDefiant4292 1d ago
To look for unbiased facts Read up a law treaty , It gives you the law frame and just that
Also look into Supreme Court decisions since the beginning
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u/cvzero man 1d ago
Wow, it's so strange that russian occupied socialist/communist Eastern European countries were more advanced than western ones after 1945?
"Post-1945 Socialist Policies: After World War II, Hungary, under socialist governance, actively promoted women's participation in the workforce. This was part of a broader agenda to mobilize all citizens for economic development. Consequently, married women were encouraged to work, and legal barriers that might have required a husband's permission for employment were dismantled.
Bank Accounts and Earnings: Under socialist policies, women were granted equal rights in many areas, including financial matters. Married women could open bank accounts in their own names and had control over their earnings. The state's emphasis on gender equality in the workforce extended to financial independence, reducing the likelihood of husbands legally controlling their wives' paychecks. "
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u/CommunityDefiant4292 19h ago
Crazy
You’ll have to remember too That Eastern Europe and Russia after ww2 was bled dry of men ! So many young men died on the German/ Russian battles So women had to work And to encourage that the government made sure the men remaining wouldn’t impede on that … It was more an opportunistic move than humanistic
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u/Character-Handle2594 man 1d ago
The existence of good, hardworking individuals does not preclude the fact that the system by and large favored men.
It does help to remember that our ancestors were mostly just people doing the best they could with what they had and what they knew. They had and knew less than us. So sometimes they, when viewed through a modern lens, made mistakes. That's all.
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u/gringo-go-loco man 1d ago edited 1d ago
The system does not and never has favored men though. Men have been the ones sent to die, work the mines, and build society, while the women stayed at home and the rich got richer off the blood and sweat of men. The “system” has always favored the wealthy and powerful. The police and military mostly serve the interests of the same people, costing men their lives. As soon as women could do the jobs that technological advances allowed them to they were given the “right” to work but shortly after given the right it basically became a requirement for most.
The biggest lie of feminism (which is actually just capitalism in disguise working for the patriarchy) is that it gave women a choice. No, what happened is the rich and powerful (ie the patriarchy) pushed this narrative to make them feel like they had a choice then just as quickly made it a requirement and so now we are all basically wage slaves. Women joining the work force effectively doubled the pool of potential workers, allowing the rich (patriarchy) to get twice as much work for the same cost.
This is why the patriarchy is harmful to both men and women. The narrative is what it is to turn women against men so they don’t snap out of the delusion of having choice and realize they traded having to work to build a life with a husband/family (which most women see as rewarding) to working for the actual patriarchy to make the rich richer, which isn’t at all rewarding or fulfilling unless you’re brainwashed into thinking work is some noble act of some sorts.
Society has devolved from one of communities, families, and growing your own food to one of detached, single/satellite families, with a giant paywall between people and basic necessities and to overcome that paywall both men and women have to work.
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u/TeeTheT-Rex woman 1d ago
Woman contributed to society by giving birth. The average life span of a woman until relatively modern times was about 35, because if they didn’t actually die while giving birth, they often did because they birthed so many children’s their bodies simply couldn’t survive any longer. Men did the bulk of work outside the home, because woman needed to be protected and provided for in order to produce and raise the next generation. We, men and woman together, built civilization and society. Neither of us can exist for long without the other. We need each other, or we go extinct, so we better learn to accept that or we’re all doomed.
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u/gringo-go-loco man 1d ago
I actually agree with you 100% but the shift from women being exclusively mothers to women being primarily workers has had a detrimental effect on society as a whole. Many simply do not have the choice and most men were never given the option of being a stay at home parent. Daycare and school is a bandaid for actual parenting and unfortunately a lot of children are raised without parenting.
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u/TeeTheT-Rex woman 1d ago
I agree with these points also. I just wanted to point out that woman staying home was not as easy or useless as it came across in your opening paragraph. Many woman considered marriage a death sentence because they knew childbirth would likely take them eventually. Love back then was also not considered a reason to marry either. In fact, emotional connection usually didn’t factor into the decision to enter into a marriage contract at all. It was a business decision more or less, to further the wealth and reputation of the family, not to seek happiness. I think this is also a major contributing factor towards the dissolution of traditional nuclear families as the normal societal expectation.
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u/Complex_Memory_7320 1d ago
Here is a cookie for rational thinking🍪. Keep it up.
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u/TeeTheT-Rex woman 1d ago
I can’t quite tell if that is sarcasm or not, but I accept the cookie either way lol.
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u/Complex_Memory_7320 1d ago
Kinda true. I guess after reading many posts the truth lies somewhere in between. Keep learning.
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u/FullFrontal687 1d ago
"So I have been reading that women were traditionally been opressed by men. Although to some context it is true. Whenever I think about it becomes hazy and I can't digest it."
Here's some helpful information to digest Women in the US did not have the right to vote until 1920 -- about 160 years after the Declaration of Independence. It wasn't until 1900 that every US state had passed a law allowing women the right to keep their wages or hold property in their names? And it wasn't until 1963 that the Equal Pay Act was passed, prohibiting pay discrimination on the basis of sex? In 1972, the USSC ruled that women had the right to acquire contraceptives.
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u/Tym370 man 1d ago
So if anything, women were oppressed by whoever was in authority, which happened to be men.
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u/Hurry-Crazy 1d ago
As were the men at the time. If you could get drafted and would be solely responsible for the well being of your wife and kids....and you are a NORMAL MAN, you wouldn't have been thinking about finding a random woman to abuse. That narrative is nonsense.
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u/gringo-go-loco man 1d ago
And many wealthy women and wives of wealthy men benefited from this. The patriarchy always has been and always will be an extension of capitalism and the rich. What most people don’t understand is that feminism at its core has always been about the perception of having choice rather than having choice. Voting is pretty much the same. We think our votes matter yet for the last 3 elections we’ve been handed two terrible option by who? The patriarchy.
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u/Complex_Memory_7320 1d ago
Hmm. I guess baised opinion don't help us. Also when I think about it if all men really oppressed women our civilisation would had been wiped out way earlier. Nature doesn't favour baised creatures in long run. Still glad to look into your perspective.
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u/CommunityDefiant4292 1d ago
Hold property in their names until they got married , then the husband had the responsibility of taking care of it , and keep the profit (took care in the wife’s name)
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u/TeeTheT-Rex woman 1d ago
Woman also didn’t receive the right to open their own bank account in their name until the 60’s, and it wasn’t until 1974 that the Equal Credit Opportunity Act prohibited discrimination against gender for acquiring credit.
I think because these things only changed within the living memory of people still alive and well today, there simply hasn’t been enough time yet for us to fully move on from it all. The next generation was raised by people that were still genuinely being oppressed, and it takes a long time for progress like that to become so normal it’s no longer a point of dissension amongst people. I think we will get there eventually and realize how much we all need each other, but it just takes time.
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u/Complex_Memory_7320 1d ago
Seems like it we are still a evolving species.
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u/TeeTheT-Rex woman 1d ago
I don’t think evolution ever truly stops. I try to stay optimistic about our future as a species. When I find that hard, I just watch Star Trek for awhile lol.
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u/Complex_Memory_7320 22h ago
Yes by far from perfect yet strong together. Star Trek🤔 I'll look into it when I get time.
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u/AbleTheta man 1d ago
1) Yes; women have historically been disempowered compared to men.
2) Yes; there are still some lingering issues/scars that remain today. For example, women are under-represented in the highest echelons of power in society, like CEO positions, congress, etc.
3) But yes; some people use these facts as ammo and take it too far... like using it to attack the institution of marriage, etc.
4) But some people being wrong doesn't make the first two points untrue.
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u/Complex_Memory_7320 1d ago
Hm... When I sometimes look into those points I see some contradictions. Like the Queen of England who was termed as Bloody Mary due mass executions of people who opposed her decisions. Seems like we are progressing to a better future nonetheless.
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u/AbleTheta man 1d ago
I can understand why you might see a contradiction because you can find individual cases it doesn't apply to, but here's the thing: "all women are oppressed by men" is not the claim anyone is trying to make.
We're talking about the class of women and the class of men, which contains all women and men. We're speaking on averages.
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u/GetDownClownInTown man 1d ago
Historically, women were treated terribly. That's not going to go away overnight or even within many years. Stuff like that gets ingrained in very small ways throughout our legal system and throughout institutions. Do I think it's something that's totally prevalent now? No but I'm a man so it's not like I would have that great of a perspective on it.
I can say this though, until women can just go anywhere they want without the worry of becoming a victim at the hands of a man, we still have a lot of work to do. There are still too many men out there who think women owe them something. Nobody owes anyone anything. Just like men don't owe women some sort of collective guilt for something they never took part in.
Everyone should give everyone a break and just try to be kind for a damn change.
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u/Complex_Memory_7320 1d ago
Hm... Do you think there are solutions?
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u/GetDownClownInTown man 1d ago
In a huge collective sense? Probably not because a lot of this stuff is interpreted through the eyes of the beholder. But it definitely helps to listen to others and their experiences and be genuine and kind. Every type of person is going to have their own struggles. I think people need to just stop trying to one up each other in the struggle department and give everyone a fucking break.
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u/Basic-Revolution-447 man 1d ago
block it all out. you aren’t racist, you aren’t a rapist, all men aren’t the same. it’s just hurt people hurting people. the nuclear family is the most beautiful thing life has to offer, and although it’s risky in modern day for men we should all still strive for it. what propaganda and bs movements have done to society is heartbreaking, but stop trying to be a game changer and start playing the game.
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u/gringo-go-loco man 1d ago
The nuclear family is indeed beautiful but making it the default path in life when many people will never be able to achieve it isn’t healthy overall. Many people chase this dream and fail either due to divorce, finances, or some other factor that cant be controlled. When that happens people become miserable and feel like they’ve failed. It’s like a carrot on a stick and some people get the carrot and others don’t but due to social conditioning we’re all starving for the carrot and ignoring the other fulfilling options. People make utterly stupid decisions, rushing into marriage or having kids when they’re not ready and it makes their life a nightmare.
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u/Basic-Revolution-447 man 1d ago
people become miserable when they fail to get it, because as i mentioned it is one of the most beautiful things life has to offer. it is completely healthy to make it the default path, because it has been for thousands and thousands of years. i also mentioned that in todays society it is a risky move for men due to the reason you listed. i don’t understand the point of your comment, its like you’re fighting your subconscious knowing that i’m right with some bs watered down version of what i said.
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u/CommunityDefiant4292 1d ago
For hundreds of years If was not nuclear families It was the opposite Since women bore many children, and were often left distressed, disabled, died from it There was different generation living under one roof , very often a widowed sister would live in there too , or a mil , an uncle …grandma/ grandpa (you were grandpa/ grandma at 35-40 yo)
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u/gringo-go-loco man 1d ago
The reason some people never obtain that “dream” is because it’s not really their dream, just the one that society has conditioned them to think they should have. Society shouldn’t push any particular path as anymore valid than the other. People shouldn’t feel like failures for not having kids, getting married, or obtaining financial success. The world is a beautiful and amazing place. Not everyone needs to be tied down, wife, kids, etc. It feels right because we’re told our entire life that it is THE way and the entire time we’re denying ourselves the joy of living life and being free to explore and experience new things.
If kids and a wife are what you want great. It’s beautiful but it’s not the only thing of beauty in this world.
ETA: the definition of insanity is trying to same thing over and over and expecting different results. If you keep chasing the dream of the nuclear family and fail to obtain it maybe it’s time to chase a new dreams
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u/Basic-Revolution-447 man 1d ago
once again, watered down version of what i said. never did i say every single person has to go down this path. it is just the right path for the majority of people.
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u/cvzero man 1d ago
Show me a society which can survive when let's say 80% of people don't have kids and the remaining 20% are having only one or two.
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u/gringo-go-loco man 3h ago
Your mistake is the assertion that we live in a healthy and free society already. America is basically crumbling and it’s not because there aren’t enough people having kids. Most of our problems stem from a lack of resources due to unnecessary paywalls many people can’t afford to cross. People work too much for too little.
People aren’t having kids or chasing the “American dream” because that dream is unobtainable for most people. Fix the economy so it works for more people and you’ll see people have more kids.
Overall america is the richest country on earth for a few and a 3rd world nation (or worse) for most of the others.
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u/CommunityDefiant4292 1d ago
You still need to be educated about the women rights movement from the 60’s 70’s And how it came to be and why ! Even though women in western countries, in the 21st century are no longer minor for life
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u/Basic-Revolution-447 man 1d ago
i personally am educated, but i can assure you my education on the matter didn’t change my life one fucking bit. and your persistence of saying people should know about it is retarded. it happened, women have rights, sorted.
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u/CommunityDefiant4292 1d ago
Your statement brings a question to mind …do you think education on history is pointless ? You don’t need to know about the wars ? About how USA came to be ? Why the political and judicial system is set up the way it is ? Or the way a city is set up ? Why there are still factually segregated neighborhoods, Why we have school shootings ? Why we have 100000 deaths a year with drugs od ? Why medical care is so expensive? Why college is so expensive?
All of that stems from the past actions and the legal frame we have …
history shapes our lives
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u/Basic-Revolution-447 man 1d ago
your statements bring questions to my mind too, like why do americans assume that everyone else in the world is fucking american.
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u/CommunityDefiant4292 1d ago
My posts did clearly states In western countries/ USA / 21st century
I can only post about what I know , whet I’m surrounded with …
I know I’m absolutely not educated about other countries and civilizations…i may know bits and pieces , not enough to talk about women / workers rights in other countries that’s for sure
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u/Basic-Revolution-447 man 1d ago
yes it did, but western civilisation entails many more countries than just the usa. i know plenty about my western countries history, and can assure you the us has and always will be ahead of the curve for womens rights. i’m also completely lost on why you thought to bring this up according to my first comment.
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u/CommunityDefiant4292 1d ago
Women rights movement were pretty much at the same time in Europe too , The voting right though came much later in Europe than USA , but for financial/ work rights… In USA it did happen a bit sooner than Europe
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u/Complex_Memory_7320 1d ago edited 1d ago
Haha thanks mate. Keep yourself safe and keep learning. And I do agree about nuclear families. Monogamy is what separates us from other species as it gives a sense of ownership.
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u/Fly-the-Light man 1d ago
Almost every single person from every corner of the globe was oppressed. This was not to equivalent degrees or means. Different groups were used or controlled in different ways. “Patriarchy” is a way of describing a society where toxic traits associated with men are glorified at the expense of other traits. It is a real thing, that hurts both men and women, but it is currently very weak in the West.
Historically, rich men have been the most powerful group. Depending on society and time period other groups have risen or fallen. In modern Western society, the genders are far more equal than 95%+ of societies, but we are still in the shadow of old oppression. It’s really only been 40-50 years of women being properly equal to men, and we’re still adjusting to that. Many men who were alive during periods where women were less powerful are still around and in power, and many other men have still been taught that women are lesser; these two groups are still fighting to control women. Other societies have even worse gender inequality, but Western societies are still in the process of adjusting.
I figure that a big part of modern day feminism is that it won and became the dominant viewpoint, but it hasn’t accepted itself as the new norm which means people are still fighting as if they’re underdogs when they are the new regime. This means feminists are failing to consolidate power, giving an advantage to legitimate misogynts who are a minority, and pushing away a lot of people who agree with them because they keep trying to fight to overthrow themselves in a misdirected desire to fight off the misogynysts in the shadows.
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Complex_Memory_7320 originally posted:
So I have been reading that women were traditionally been opressed by men. Although to some context it is true. Whenever I think about it becomes hazy and I can't digest it. Like my ancestors and many more worked so hard all their lives so that we in present can have a better future, just to be called oppressors in modern times. Also for marraiges were women weren't treated fairly there were also men who got women like that. So it's basically comes down to like there are good people and bad people. Also now I see many countries that have baised laws have their birth rates below 2.1 . Breaking the family unit apart is the best way to break us apart in future. I guess many of us had a decent family to teach us things from both perspectives. I can't speak on this way more although I guess it would be mundane. I don't mean to come out as offensive to anyone just my thoughts and want to know about it from different perspectives.
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u/AutoModerator 22h ago
Complex_Memory_7320 updated the post:
So I have been reading that women were traditionally been opressed by men. Although to some context it is true. Whenever I think about it becomes hazy and I can't digest it. Like my ancestors and many more worked so hard all their lives so that we in present can have a better future, just to be called oppressors in modern times. Also for marraiges were women weren't treated fairly there were also men who got women like that. So it's basically comes down to like there are good people and bad people. Also now I see many countries that have baised laws have their birth rates below 2.1 . Breaking the family unit apart is the best way to break us apart in future. I guess many of us had a decent family to teach us things from both perspectives. I can't speak on this way more although I guess it would be mundane. I don't mean to come out as offensive to anyone just my thoughts and want to know about it from different perspectives.
Edit 1 :- Thank you everyone for sharing your perspective I'll try to look into each one.
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u/Miserable-Most-1265 man 1d ago
There is nothing a man can legally do, that a woman is prevented from doing. While sure they can talk about the past, this isn't the past.
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u/CommunityDefiant4292 1d ago
You’re right But WE still live from the consequences of the past
The civil war and aftermath destroyed the southern states World world 1 destroyed the European countryside society Jim Crow laws destroyed African American families and livelihoods Reagan’s and Thatcher’s social policies destroyed unions and pensions for the workers and welfare for the sick and poor …leading to the homelessness crises of now and the never ending working life (work until you die) Clinton’s drugs law sent thousands of people to jail Gerrymandering lead to a lack of meaningful representation in congress, Supreme Court position on firearms, since 10 years ago are the cause of thousands of deaths, Supreme Court decision on campaign financing leads to corporations being really at the helm ! The list goes on ! 1% of men decide the lives of every single one of us
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u/CommunityDefiant4292 1d ago
Banking deregulation brought the great depression of the 20’s 30’s which led to ww2 Banking deregulation brought us the great recession of 2008 … But the rich got richer of their own doing
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u/francisco_DANKonia 1d ago
It'd be such an insult . After fighting for your family to just survive for 60 years and you get called a sexist oppressor
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u/ReclaimingMine man 1d ago
Feminist use patriarchy to muddy the water so the target is on all men.
The problem is that patriarchy or whatever hierarchy ONLY really benefitted the super rich men, like the 1%, rest of the men and women still got the shit end of the stick.
Average men never had any power, property, slaves or money to full use the benefit of the “old patriarchy”.
Were average men enablers? Sure some were.
Did they have a choice? Kinda but it’s like saying you need to go hungry because kids in Africa are starving.
Look at voting, initially voting were allowed to men, but only specific men. White and property owning, it was about 6% of men in 1780s. Other 44% of men were JUST LIKE Women because they couldn’t vote.
Feminist like to act like men had rights to vote for a long time but it wasn’t the true case.
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u/ProfessionalCoat8512 man 1d ago
Women weren’t any more oppressed than men historically speaking.
Until recently most people were serfs in Europe which was little more than slaves.
Meaning most men and woman couldn’t vote.
Men won the right to vote and then later women did; that is the truth and it wasn’t until relatively recently.
Men also had it a lot harder in times of war and famine sacrifice themselves.
Even if you watch old interviews of women in the 1950’s and 1960’s if asked whether they control the house or their husband does; about 60% of the women respond they did.
The narrative of super oppressed women is just a popular story.
In reality the biggest limitations imposed on women vrs men were biological and until recently we had limited means to change that.
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u/Complex_Memory_7320 1d ago
I guess the truth lies in between. Very well thanks for sharing your opinion.
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u/gringo-go-loco man 1d ago
Men fought and died for the right to vote. Big difference.
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u/ProfessionalCoat8512 man 1d ago
Meh I won’t quibble about who won’t the right to vote and suffered more.
The truth is for 99.9% of humans being a man or a woman through history was fucking hard.
Men and women were all oppressed, used etc.
The average person male or female has never had it this good at least in the West.
People look back and see show like Downton Abbey and think all white men lived in such opulence and grandeur; while the poor power other people were heinously abused.
In truth, that was a tiny fraction probably similar to the fraction that are billionaires today.
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u/AggravatingIssue7020 man 1d ago
Women had no chance to divorce as usually only men worked etc , that's very unfortunate.
But tell me one thing, which gender usually went to die in wars?
Haven't touched a history book in a while, I forgot:-/
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u/CommunityDefiant4292 1d ago
Did men really went willingly to war ? The draft and the promise of jail helped …and propaganda Who declared the wars ?
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u/CommunityDefiant4292 1d ago
There are reasons why women couldn’t work… The legal frame was set up that way , And also with kids, and financially and professionally… Read up on history
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u/AggravatingIssue7020 man 1d ago
I know, I am sorry if that was misunderstood.
The women were dealt the shit cards historically.
I agree with that. They had no way out, it's very sad.
The men were also dealt shit cards, a little corrupt elite would start wars, never the people.
I think patriarchy is some proper bs, but I'll not be raising women any higher than eye to eye height.
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u/CommunityDefiant4292 1d ago
Men also were given shit cards , Here’s the list the lack of proper wages, the lack of safety at work , with bosses locking doors in warehouses, Taking away wages for some minor accidents/ incidents/ breakages Families (come to mind in appalachian coal mines , Western silver mines, had to live in the mines provided housing, buy from the mine provided shops…all at prohibitive fees Banks were more like shark loaners…
And the legal frame their wives were beholden to, meant that the wives’ financial participation in the household was insignificant and insufficient. The numerous children born meant also money was spent on food and not schooling … Poverty was a hamster wheel.
Info : What does that last statement means ? Copy of your last sentence “ but I'll not be raising women any higher than eye to eye height.“
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u/This_Interaction_727 1d ago
if men are “raising women up” to be equal…who put them down? lmao but the patriarchy is “some proper bullshit”??
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u/AggravatingIssue7020 man 23h ago
I don't believe men put women down per day, it was just economical circumstances, life was hard, back then people worked more hours for less and knowing where the next meal would come from was sometimes a mystery, these days we worry more about how whether we will eat cake or sip a frappuncino
Life was different, procreation is difficult, humanity is getting coming around, step by step
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u/This_Interaction_727 23h ago
why reply if you’re not going to answer the question?
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u/AggravatingIssue7020 man 23h ago
Pardon me, I suck at internet things, can you please compose the question again and I'll reply, no worries I am not the kinda guy who's tongue gets bitten by cats:-)
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u/This_Interaction_727 22h ago
can you explain why women need to be raised up by men if they were never put down in the first place
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u/AggravatingIssue7020 man 18h ago
Aha, I was just stating that if anyone thinks they been put down(I don't believe that, it was life was just different), then I agree to have both on an eye to eye level, equality and all that.
I hope this clarifies
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u/KiloWhiskyFoxtrot 1d ago edited 1d ago
Men were "favored"... that's why they got 12 hour shifts in the mine, or factory, or farm. It's patriarchy that allowed them to go to war, and defend a nation with their blood and lives. The favored always provide peace, protection, food, and shelter. Don't you know?
Only the oppressed stay home, raise a family, cook, clean, or shop. Oppressors always dominate by protecting and providing for the oppressed. That's how it works... right?
You see, only feminism crowns the oppressed and empowered as the same individual. It just happens to always be a woman, too. Interesting, isn't it? They want, and have it, both ways... It's a sham.
It has led to a degradation of family and society in the same way the Industrial Revolution did. Which removed fathers from the home, and kids from their parents. It placed families into cities, and not in communities. Now, women and mothers say "well, we should do it too". But, things are getting worse, more confused, not better...
Why is that?
For millenia, the (intelligent) design of the family was honored. Today, it's a bad joke. Yet, the old way of thinking is under attack... while the new "enlightened" have had the reigns for about 5 decades. Still, the failures are attributed to a society we abandoned half a century ago. While the emergent philosophy hasn't been assessed any of its failures. The reason? It doesn't withstand honest scrutiny.
We don't have it better today. Our kids clearly don't. It's as effective as bloodletting was... but we haven't looked at it critically. And we can't, or the argument all falls apart.
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u/ebowski64 man 1d ago
The word “patriarchy” just doesn’t move the needle. When I hear it, I instantly think it is a five dollar word used by people blaming others for their problems. Also, the people that use it seem to be grossly unpleasant.
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u/kittyBoyLacroix man 1d ago
Name one right that a man has that women doesn't....social media is brainwashing these women. The idea that men make more money than women for the dame job has even been debunked. Its all part of the AGENDA
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u/gringo-go-loco man 1d ago
And liberal academia is heavily skewed in studies that paint men in a negative way and women in a positive. That study from 2009 that women often talk about which showed that men are more likely to leave their wives if they get sick was actually based on faulty computer code. In 2015 they released an update that basically showed the rate of divorce or abandonment following diagnosis of a serious illness was the same.
I would personally like to see a study regarding the correlation of violent criminals raised by single mothers, single fathers, and both parents but we all know that will never happen. Women always blame men for the state of society yet who is that raises these boys to be the men they become? Men AND women.
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u/No-Orchid-4848 man 1d ago
Holy crap the amount of misinformation on this thread is staggering. Yes women have been oppressed. Women were allowed to vote only after slaves were allowed to vote. Until about the 1970s or 80s women couldn’t even have a bank account. Men did a lot of the hunting or what we would consider more masculine things in ancient societies while women ran the homesteads but that included managing food stores, maintenance and other things for the entire village while men only had to kill animals and provide food. Villages had roles and it worked. Later when larger scale building started women got less and less responsibility while men edged them out of certain aspects. Cut to today’s society where gender roles don’t serve any purpose. Women can do anything using modern tools that men can and they can leave the house and receive the same education and suddenly men don’t want that. There’s nothing wrong with wanting a household with more traditional roles and there’s nothing wrong with more modern roles. It’s preference these days. It just doesn’t make sense in a modern world to tell someone they don’t belong doing something they are perfectly capable of doing.