r/facepalm Jul 12 '24

šŸ‡²ā€‹šŸ‡®ā€‹šŸ‡øā€‹šŸ‡Øā€‹ That's the truth

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384

u/ughthat Jul 12 '24

I know I am going to get downvoted for this. And Iā€™d vote for a literal bag of šŸ’© before I would vote for Trump. But these types of twitter and Facebook posts are just getting infuriating.

They are the worst form of whatabouism that detracts from the actual problem. We get it. Biden is the better choice. She is not going to convince anyone who is set on voting for Trump with this tweet. And it just detracts from the real conversations that should about how we got into this mess in the first place and how we are going to fix it. Itā€™s not like electing either of them is going to fix the completely broken two party system. At this point these Twitter and fb posts are just engagement farming.

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u/Witchy_bimbo Jul 12 '24

I absolutely agree we need to have that conversation in a very, very real way. But we probably wonā€™t be able to have that conversation if he doesnā€™t win. So I think itā€™s about banding together for that and then addressing it. If he loses, I donā€™t think thereā€™s much left to fight for.

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u/WhnWlltnd Jul 12 '24

https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/pennsylvania/trump-vs-biden

https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/wisconsin/trump-vs-biden

https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/nevada/trump-vs-biden

https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/michigan/trump-vs-biden

https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/arizona/trump-vs-biden-vs-kennedy-vs-west-vs-stein

https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/north-carolina/trump-vs-biden-vs-kennedy-vs-west-vs-stein

Biden needs to win at least three of these states but is currently losing all of them. You can dismiss them as flawed if you want, but you can not deny the downward trend. Turning a blind eye to this could very well be our undoing. And there's no real chance that Biden will be able to turn this tide as long as he keeps showing his feeble mental acuity. He'll keep making these glaring gaffes well into the future. It's just the reality of old age. That's not going to drive turnout.

2

u/BZenMojo Jul 12 '24

New York is a tossup state.

New York.

New. York.

-1

u/RazekDPP Jul 12 '24

7

u/Bucketen Jul 12 '24

538 also had Hillary at over a 70% chance to win. Not saying they havenā€™t adjusted their model but the individual state pollings are telling

0

u/RazekDPP Jul 12 '24

I'm sure they have adjusted their model. Realistically, whoever runs will be a coin flip anyways. I don't see anyone replacing Biden at this point significantly improving the odds.

Also, the reality is that if Biden wins, we're simply going to do this again in 2028 with Trump vs X and Project 2029.

0

u/Bucketen Jul 12 '24

Sorry I didnā€™t mean to diss 538 I myself quite like the way they do their polling just still skeptical. I think Michelle Obama would win in a landslide (and the polls show that) but sheā€™s made it clear at this point she has no interest in running. I think Biden is too stubborn to give his spot up and heā€™ll fight tooth and nail to keep the nomination if it comes down to it

2

u/RazekDPP Jul 12 '24

Do you have a source for that claim? I find it hard to believe Michelle Obama would win in a landslide. I'd imagine we'd see something similar like with Hillary, of a 70/30 margin at best.

2

u/Bucketen Jul 12 '24

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2024/07/03/heres-why-michelle-obama-led-a-presidential-poll-and-why-she-wont-replace-biden/

This poll done about a week ago showed her with a 11% margin over Trump. Sheā€™s also polled very well (in terms of general favorability) over the past few years. Again she has re iterated several times she doesnā€™t want to run so there isnā€™t a large volume of recent polls on the situation since itā€™s so unlikely to happen.

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u/RazekDPP Jul 12 '24 edited Jul 12 '24

Thanks.

That's also not a landslide and it's only one poll.

That poll does give Biden a lot of reason to stay in, though.

Granted, Hillary was 70/30 over Trump and Trump still won so I'd hardly consider 11% a landslide, especially with only one poll.

The more interesting part, to me, is with Biden staying in, Trump only gains a 1% advantage, even though it's split at 40/40.

And no one else even has an advantage over Biden.

Obviously, one poll doesn't mean anything, especially if she won't run.

1

u/Bucketen Jul 12 '24

I agree itā€™s hard to classify that as a true landslide but since Reagan the highest margin of victory has only been 8% so that would be quite a lot. I think that Biden still has a shot but heā€™s really been shooting him self in the foot lately. He gave some good and thoughtful answers at the NATO summit but those journalists are looking for any slip up and he keeps giving them what they want.

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u/KalaronV Jul 12 '24

....Unless the reason we lose is because he couldn't win, which the polling shows. Then it would behoove us to have the conversation about fixing the nomination of Biden right now.

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u/context_lich Jul 12 '24

Exactly, it's not about one bad debate being worse than Trump. It's about the candidate that we put forward making it more likely that Trump wins. In a critical moment like this, it'd feel a lot better to have a strong candidate people believed in rather than a candidate that we're constantly making excuses for.

I just keep getting flashbacks to the first time Trump was elected. People wanted Trump. People were kind of meh about Hillary. We could've put forward a progressive candidate people believed in back then with Bernie, but we put forward a nothing candidate because no one thought Trump could win. Here we are yet again. People still really want Trump. No one really wants Biden. Hopefully people dislike Trump enough for Biden to win again, but I'd feel better if we put up someone who people really wanted to win. At least, someone who isn't scaring people with how old he is.

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u/[deleted] Jul 12 '24

It's too late. Vote for Biden. Stop playing into the narrative.Ā 

3

u/context_lich Jul 12 '24

Stop acting like it's a risk to talk about it. Anyone who is legitimately worried about Biden isn't going to vote for Trump. The whole reason to be worried is because you're worried he won't beat Trump. Telling people they don't see what they can literally see with their eyes isn't going to win over people who are on the fence.

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u/[deleted] Jul 12 '24

I'm only worried he won't beat Trump because of people like you. Full stop.Ā 

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u/context_lich Jul 12 '24

That's stupid. If he's the candidate, I would obviously vote for him. As would most people like me who are worried Biden can't win again. It's not possible to gaslight people into believing the problem doesn't exist.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '24

There. Is. No. If.Ā 

2

u/KalaronV Jul 12 '24

That's silly. His votes among Democrats remains unchallenged for the most part. People aren't energized by him, but it's not like we're hurting him on that front any more than he has.

No, the reason he'll lose is because moderates think he's a drooling moron.

1

u/Niipoon Jul 14 '24

Nice bait troll

2

u/KalaronV Jul 12 '24

Fun fact, every time someone says that "It's a narrative" or says people shouldn't talk about Biden being a fucking fossil, it makes the Democrats look like clowns.

The ideal voter would be able to talk about this before still voting for Biden (if he's stupid enough to stay in) come November.

1

u/Ppleater Jul 12 '24

There are no candidates who would win if Biden couldn't. Anyone who thinks so just doesn't understand how this works, it's too late. It is quite literally Biden or nobody. Making Biden look weaker is not helping anything, this is a conversation that needs to happen after he wins, if he wins. Having it now is not helping, if anything it's doing worse than not helping, it's harming.

7

u/Living_Trust_Me Jul 12 '24

You have zero proof of that. All you have proof of right now is Biden is absolutely sunk and drowning in the polls and all of the other potential candidates are polling ahead of him.

But the polls of alternative candidates aren't as sure in any direction because they aren't actually running campaigns and the pros and cons aren't highlighted routinely to voters. They could come out and then fall behind massively like Biden or they could come out and look so good they boost up well ahead of Trump.

3

u/KalaronV Jul 12 '24

Somehow I'm inclined to trust the actual polls Pollsters that are throwing up warning signs than you tbh.

4

u/ughthat Jul 12 '24

Agree. And imo regardless of what happens the entire Democratic Party and its leadership should be gutted and rebuilt based on this absolutely embarrassing display of utter incompetence. How can anyone be expected to trust these buffoons to run a country after this miserable this?

Same statement applies to the Republican Party.

0

u/ChaiKitteaLatte Jul 12 '24

You are exactly right.

There is no other candidate who would get Trump people votes. Itā€™s a cult, no oneā€™s being swayed. People need to get out of the fantasy that thereā€™s any uniting candidate.

There could be candidates that Democrats, who should already be voting for Biden, might like more. The problem is that there is not an obvious strong contender right now. So any other candidates that come forward would just split votes amongst each other. And they would be so new and untested, not enough time to campaign, that they would not pull people to the voting booth and Trump would definitely win.

It is absolutely too late, and anyone who doesnā€™t understand that, genuinely doesnā€™t understand how this country works or the people in it. These are the conversations for after we get Biden elected.

Right now we have to make him look like the only reasonable choice, because he is between our two options. Then we spend the next four years trying to fix what we can and searching for the next president.

1

u/Nbasportschop Jul 12 '24

If he was ā€œthe only reasonable choiceā€ then why would you need to do anything? Heā€™s clearly not, or you wouldnā€™t have ā€œto make him look like itā€ you arenā€™t going to trick anyone into thinking heā€™s a strong candidate or even a reasonable one.

Neither are reasonable people will pick between erratic or incompetent there is no reasonably choice right now.

1

u/ChaiKitteaLatte Jul 14 '24

Yes, he is. One of them is a convicted criminal, rapist, who tried to overthrow our democracy. The other is man showing signs of aging. If you canā€™t see that Biden is a universe away from Trump in terms of options, then you are not salvageable.

14

u/ughthat Jul 12 '24

You are absolutely right about needing to win the election first and banding together. But I just donā€™t think these posts do anything to make us band together. At least for me personally itā€™s doing the exact opposite.

8

u/Normal-Advisor5269 Jul 12 '24

So this is 2020 copy pasted.Ā 

"We'll talk about it after we beat Trump!"Ā 

Proceeds to spend 4 years not talking about it.

2

u/Superguy230 Jul 12 '24

You realise you could have these conversations in the years 2016-2020 while he was president right?

4

u/wish_i_was_lurking Jul 12 '24

Or in 2020 when everyone who didn't have their head up their ass could tell Biden didn't have it anymore and there was a full democratic field to choose from

3

u/alpha-bets Jul 12 '24

It's a lose lose situation for the common people. If biden wins, dnc will keep fielding candidates that are financially viable but incapable and/or not wanted by the common public. It makes me think this admin is racist and sexist for not allowing Kamala to go for it. If she was not put in as a VP to eventually take up the mantle when Joe got too old, that reinforces she is just a DEI checkbox and nothing else.

4

u/SoulInvictis Jul 12 '24

The problem is, Biden can't win. The polling averages show that he is the weakest possible candidate to take on Trump - if Biden is at the top of the ticket in November, Trump will win and Republicans will have a pretty good shot at taking the House and the Senate too. Banding together behind the one man who cannot defeat Trump is a losing strategy.

1

u/Chyron48 Jul 12 '24

Dem voters 20202: "If we win we can push Biden left!"

Biden: Aids the world most Instagrammed genocide.

Dem voters: "Trump would genocide even harder!"

Biden: "I don't think Vice President Trump would help Ukrainian President Putin!"

You: "Let's stick our heads in the sand for four months and pick this up later."

Man, that's not remotely sane. Wise the fuck up please.

A vote for Biden is a vote for Trump. Vote green and we can have a real fucking conversation for the next four years.

4

u/liftgeekrepeat Jul 12 '24

oh so do 2016 again when all the green party voters led to Trump winning?

1

u/197326485 Jul 13 '24

Look at the post history of the person you're replying to. It's just the same thing over and over and over. Every post. Biden. Genocide. Trump. Four months. Green party.

They're a little too articulate to be a Russian troll trying to win the election for Republicans but god damn I wouldn't be surprised if this is the kind of shit they're resorting to.

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u/Chyron48 Jul 12 '24

2016 when Hilary elevated Trumps campaign, and made shady deals with the DNC to take the nominatiation over Sanders, who was polling far better vs Trump.

Yes, Dems are doing that again, except this time they're genociding (more) while they do it. Anyone who supports this is a scumbag.

Fortunately, only 26% of Democratic voters actually want Biden as the candidate.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/11/us/politics/biden-approval-polling-2024.html