They are the worst form of whatabouism that detracts from the actual problem. We get it. Biden is the better choice. She is not going to convince anyone who is set on voting for Trump with this tweet. And it just detracts from the real conversations that should about how we got into this mess in the first place and how we are going to fix it. Itās not like electing either of them is going to fix the completely broken two party system. At this point these Twitter and fb posts are just engagement farming.
I absolutely agree we need to have that conversation in a very, very real way. But we probably wonāt be able to have that conversation if he doesnāt win. So I think itās about banding together for that and then addressing it. If he loses, I donāt think thereās much left to fight for.
Biden needs to win at least three of these states but is currently losing all of them. You can dismiss them as flawed if you want, but you can not deny the downward trend. Turning a blind eye to this could very well be our undoing. And there's no real chance that Biden will be able to turn this tide as long as he keeps showing his feeble mental acuity. He'll keep making these glaring gaffes well into the future. It's just the reality of old age. That's not going to drive turnout.
I'm sure they have adjusted their model. Realistically, whoever runs will be a coin flip anyways. I don't see anyone replacing Biden at this point significantly improving the odds.
Also, the reality is that if Biden wins, we're simply going to do this again in 2028 with Trump vs X and Project 2029.
Sorry I didnāt mean to diss 538 I myself quite like the way they do their polling just still skeptical. I think Michelle Obama would win in a landslide (and the polls show that) but sheās made it clear at this point she has no interest in running. I think Biden is too stubborn to give his spot up and heāll fight tooth and nail to keep the nomination if it comes down to it
Do you have a source for that claim? I find it hard to believe Michelle Obama would win in a landslide. I'd imagine we'd see something similar like with Hillary, of a 70/30 margin at best.
This poll done about a week ago showed her with a 11% margin over Trump. Sheās also polled very well (in terms of general favorability) over the past few years. Again she has re iterated several times she doesnāt want to run so there isnāt a large volume of recent polls on the situation since itās so unlikely to happen.
....Unless the reason we lose is because he couldn't win, which the polling shows. Then it would behoove us to have the conversation about fixing the nomination of Biden right now.
Exactly, it's not about one bad debate being worse than Trump. It's about the candidate that we put forward making it more likely that Trump wins. In a critical moment like this, it'd feel a lot better to have a strong candidate people believed in rather than a candidate that we're constantly making excuses for.
I just keep getting flashbacks to the first time Trump was elected. People wanted Trump. People were kind of meh about Hillary. We could've put forward a progressive candidate people believed in back then with Bernie, but we put forward a nothing candidate because no one thought Trump could win. Here we are yet again. People still really want Trump. No one really wants Biden. Hopefully people dislike Trump enough for Biden to win again, but I'd feel better if we put up someone who people really wanted to win. At least, someone who isn't scaring people with how old he is.
Stop acting like it's a risk to talk about it. Anyone who is legitimately worried about Biden isn't going to vote for Trump. The whole reason to be worried is because you're worried he won't beat Trump. Telling people they don't see what they can literally see with their eyes isn't going to win over people who are on the fence.
That's stupid. If he's the candidate, I would obviously vote for him. As would most people like me who are worried Biden can't win again. It's not possible to gaslight people into believing the problem doesn't exist.
That's silly. His votes among Democrats remains unchallenged for the most part. People aren't energized by him, but it's not like we're hurting him on that front any more than he has.
No, the reason he'll lose is because moderates think he's a drooling moron.
Fun fact, every time someone says that "It's a narrative" or says people shouldn't talk about Biden being a fucking fossil, it makes the Democrats look like clowns.
The ideal voter would be able to talk about this before still voting for Biden (if he's stupid enough to stay in) come November.
There are no candidates who would win if Biden couldn't. Anyone who thinks so just doesn't understand how this works, it's too late. It is quite literally Biden or nobody. Making Biden look weaker is not helping anything, this is a conversation that needs to happen after he wins, if he wins. Having it now is not helping, if anything it's doing worse than not helping, it's harming.
You have zero proof of that. All you have proof of right now is Biden is absolutely sunk and drowning in the polls and all of the other potential candidates are polling ahead of him.
But the polls of alternative candidates aren't as sure in any direction because they aren't actually running campaigns and the pros and cons aren't highlighted routinely to voters. They could come out and then fall behind massively like Biden or they could come out and look so good they boost up well ahead of Trump.
Agree. And imo regardless of what happens the entire Democratic Party and its leadership should be gutted and rebuilt based on this absolutely embarrassing display of utter incompetence. How can anyone be expected to trust these buffoons to run a country after this miserable this?
There is no other candidate who would get Trump people votes. Itās a cult, no oneās being swayed. People need to get out of the fantasy that thereās any uniting candidate.
There could be candidates that Democrats, who should already be voting for Biden, might like more. The problem is that there is not an obvious strong contender right now. So any other candidates that come forward would just split votes amongst each other. And they would be so new and untested, not enough time to campaign, that they would not pull people to the voting booth and Trump would definitely win.
It is absolutely too late, and anyone who doesnāt understand that, genuinely doesnāt understand how this country works or the people in it. These are the conversations for after we get Biden elected.
Right now we have to make him look like the only reasonable choice, because he is between our two options. Then we spend the next four years trying to fix what we can and searching for the next president.
If he was āthe only reasonable choiceā then why would you need to do anything? Heās clearly not, or you wouldnāt have āto make him look like itā you arenāt going to trick anyone into thinking heās a strong candidate or even a reasonable one.
Neither are reasonable people will pick between erratic or incompetent there is no reasonably choice right now.
Yes, he is. One of them is a convicted criminal, rapist, who tried to overthrow our democracy. The other is man showing signs of aging. If you canāt see that Biden is a universe away from Trump in terms of options, then you are not salvageable.
You are absolutely right about needing to win the election first and banding together. But I just donāt think these posts do anything to make us band together. At least for me personally itās doing the exact opposite.
Or in 2020 when everyone who didn't have their head up their ass could tell Biden didn't have it anymore and there was a full democratic field to choose from
It's a lose lose situation for the common people. If biden wins, dnc will keep fielding candidates that are financially viable but incapable and/or not wanted by the common public. It makes me think this admin is racist and sexist for not allowing Kamala to go for it. If she was not put in as a VP to eventually take up the mantle when Joe got too old, that reinforces she is just a DEI checkbox and nothing else.
The problem is, Biden can't win. The polling averages show that he is the weakest possible candidate to take on Trump - if Biden is at the top of the ticket in November, Trump will win and Republicans will have a pretty good shot at taking the House and the Senate too. Banding together behind the one man who cannot defeat Trump is a losing strategy.
Look at the post history of the person you're replying to. It's just the same thing over and over and over. Every post. Biden. Genocide. Trump. Four months. Green party.
They're a little too articulate to be a Russian troll trying to win the election for Republicans but god damn I wouldn't be surprised if this is the kind of shit they're resorting to.
2016 when Hilary elevated Trumps campaign, and made shady deals with the DNC to take the nominatiation over Sanders, who was polling far better vs Trump.
Yes, Dems are doing that again, except this time they're genociding (more) while they do it. Anyone who supports this is a scumbag.
Fortunately, only 26% of Democratic voters actually want Biden as the candidate.
Exactly. "Hey, maybe Biden is not the best candidate to beat Trump, maybe Harris or Whitmer or?.." DOES NOT equal "Welp, he's too old I'm voting Trump!".
is not going to convince anyone who is set on voting for Trump
Same goes for a lot of Joe Biden's policy such as border policy. Most people who cry about "border" and "illegal aliens" are the same who will vote for Trump regardless.
I honestly think what you are saying here is completely denying reality.
Have you watched MSNBC and CNN at any point in the last eight years? It is literally Trump 24/7 - especially MSNBC does almost nothing else but talk about how bad and evil Trump is. They have done so for years, basically since he announced his candidacy in 2015.
But one news cycle comes around which is dominated by Biden's incredibly upsetting debate performance and suddenly people are like "why do you never talk about Trump?"
I know, itās freaking hilarious. All the subs on Reddit with a thumbnail of Trumps face plastered on every other post every day for years, then for a week or so we start to see Biden and people lose their shit. Itās so hypocritical.
Crazy ideaā¦ if thatās her point maybe she should just say it. But what she is really doing is trivializing one issue to shift focus away to another issue. Itās no better than the shit posting going on the right, and it means she is contributing to the problem rather than helping to solve it. Itās the same old partisan politics bs. Only difference is she does it for likes instead of votes.
While EVIDENCE of a man whoās also up for election being in a very compromising position and potentially more evidence of him being with a minor has come out
Could you provide a source of this evidence in any way? AFAIK there's only an allegation timed right around election time, the same one that was timed right before the 2016 election. I'm very curious to know if there's more to it!
The evidence that came out does not indicate Trump was with a minor at all. Again, it's insane to presume that the thousands of people that visited Epstein's island were all cliente. This is the reason why the media is not covering this, so far it is a non-issue.
The point is Biden is flagging, that he is old, but the squeakiest wheel gets the grease. There are still voters who are undecided, which is insane, and I feel like a lot of people (myself included) are fighting back to show that this is the only 'dirt' they've got on this guy and that it's not that bad. We aren't justifying the whole idea that we need more geriatrics in office. We can't fix a problem if we're not allowed to.
This is a battle about now. You are legitimately putting the cart before the horse. It's all broken, but what happens if Trump gets elected?
If someone actually had a wish and wasted it on what the original post says they would be a real moron. Anyone with an actual wish would just use it to get us all two reasonable candidates to choose from.
Itās angerā¦ thatās all it is. Weāre constantly being lied to by the media and politicians. The only ones we have to take it out on is each other. The whole thing is so convoluted that the two sides canāt understand the policies of the other. Either the representatives are too stupid to actually understand it themselves or they just play the idiots in their corner.
Weāre constantly being lied to by the media and politicians.
Yes, but add "influencers online" to that list.
The whole thing is so convoluted that the two sides canāt understand the policies of the other.
If you are talking about the public I agree. But the politicians understand the policies just fine. The problem is that there is no incentive for them to fix it. It's "us vs them" that get people elected. Trying to actually fix problems more often than not loses elections because problems are very profitable, and if the problems go away so do the lobbyist that finance campaigns that ensure the problems keep being profitable.
And absolutely 0 of it matters. Not one person can change a thingā¦ itās just a half assed tug of war for the viewing pleasure of the captive audiences.
All right I just want to start out with like I completely agree with everything you said and I'm going to take the down votes for it lmao. But hear me out. Let's just say fuck the two party system #StillBelievingIn AndrewYang
The two party system isn't what's wrong here. Americans willingly voting for fascism is. Having multiple parties damn-near fucked France and Britain over.Ā
At its root, it is absolutely the two-party system in the US. It creates the illusion of choice without real choice. It does not just make it way too easy to play blame ping pong; it actually incentivizes it.
The two examples you mentioned are flawed for many reasons unrelated to having multiple parties. While political fragmentation is a factor, both are former empires struggling with their fading influence for the past century and a half.
I can also point to countries with multiple parties that have exceptionally well functional democracies. Causality and correlation are not the same thing.
"The two examples you mentioned are flawed for many reasons unrelated to having multiple parties" and the exact same thing can be said about the US. I will direct you to the rest of your comment if you need more help proving my point.Ā
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u/ughthat Jul 12 '24
I know I am going to get downvoted for this. And Iād vote for a literal bag of š© before I would vote for Trump. But these types of twitter and Facebook posts are just getting infuriating.
They are the worst form of whatabouism that detracts from the actual problem. We get it. Biden is the better choice. She is not going to convince anyone who is set on voting for Trump with this tweet. And it just detracts from the real conversations that should about how we got into this mess in the first place and how we are going to fix it. Itās not like electing either of them is going to fix the completely broken two party system. At this point these Twitter and fb posts are just engagement farming.