r/JewsOfConscience • u/isawasin Non-Jewish Ally • Sep 05 '24
News Jill Stein responds to AOC
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u/xGentian_violet Non-Jewish Atheist, Anti-Zionist Sep 05 '24
I am a long time pro-palestine leftist and socialist, you will not suceed in painting criticism of Jill stein as a "liberal capitalist" thing to do, though i see you are trying
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u/IWantFries21 Non-Jewish Ally Sep 05 '24
Chalking up rightful criticism of Jill Stein as a recent "liberal capitalist" thing is just as naive as BlueNoMatterWho ppl who think anti-Kamala rhetoric is purely Russian bots
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u/isawasin Non-Jewish Ally Sep 05 '24
Recently, AOC followed up her objectively dishonest appearance at the DNC with an ig love where she answered questions/platformed democratic talking points. During that stream, she directed pointed criticism at Jill Stein and portrayed the green party as a whole as self-serving opportunists.
Since then, that narrative has been taken up as a major talking point across liberal and pro-capitalist left circles on social media, including on this site. This was Jill's response.
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u/EasternShade Non-Jewish Ally Sep 05 '24
pro-capitalist left circles
This is a contradiction.
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u/disconnectedtwice Sep 06 '24
Idk maybe he meant socially left or left leaning pro capitalist
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u/EasternShade Non-Jewish Ally Sep 06 '24
Probably. Folks in the US are used to hearing anything left of the GOP being called leftists and 'the left.'
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u/isawasin Non-Jewish Ally Sep 06 '24
We can call it a euphemism. Such people exist. The contradiction sometimes lost on them, sometimes not.
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u/Taarguss Reconstructionist Sep 05 '24
Well unfortunately, they are self serving opportunists. AOC’s doing a bad job here but the Green Party in America is less than useless right now. They make no effort to build power and only pop up during the general election. They don’t do anything. Their strategy is bad. They want that 5% of the vote so they can be on national ballots, but do virtually nothing on a local or state level. it’s a top down approach that will never work.
If you’re not gonna vote for Harris, you may as well just not vote for president and just focus on down ballot stuff. There’s truly no good to be done by throwing a vote to Jill Stein.
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u/IWantFries21 Non-Jewish Ally Sep 05 '24
Yeah I don't know why you're being downvoted. Jill Stein doesn't give a damn about Americans or Palestinians (though I think her presence at protests is very important). She only shows up every 4 years to run for president while knowing that her election bid is taking away votes from a Democrat president (which is particularly impactful since Trump came into play). Since 2012, she quite literally hasn't run for anything but president. If she cared about making an impact, she would've been running for local or state positions. She also never speaks about other Congressional happenings - didn't say anything about the progressive members of Congress who were running for reelection - and has taken money from Lockheed Martin (2016) and invested in companies that invest in Big Oil. But oh wait, she advertises herself as the "greater good"?
Jill Stein is just as corrupt as other politicians and lies through her teeth about it. AOC rightfully called her out. Vote for Jill Stein if that must be your prerogative, but don't put her on a pedestal she didn't do anything to deserve.
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u/Taarguss Reconstructionist Sep 05 '24
Yeah to me it’s like “I hate this bad thing so therefore I’m going to now get really into this useless unrelated thing.” People, understand how power works in America. Tossing your vote to someone who will not win or isn’t how to change anything. It’s not even the act of voting for someone other than Harris that’s frustrating, like whatever. It’s the people online who are acting like Jill Stein has any remote chance of accomplishing anything. Protest vote, sure. But to actually buy into this to me is extremely unserious. Research your candidates before holding them up on pedestals.
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u/stormelc Sep 05 '24
I don’t want to pop your bubble, but republicans and democrats can’t get shit done either. Seems strange to discredit the Geen Party for something the 2 main parties are guilty of themselves.
Why perpetuate the broken 2 party system?
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u/EasternShade Non-Jewish Ally Sep 05 '24
Short of mass change in elections over the course of a decade or so, voting third party does nothing to address the 2 main parties. Let alone put a stop to the two party system.
To put a stop to the two party system, we need to end first past the post voting. First past the post means that whoever has the most votes wins, with or without a majority. So, it's strategically advantageous to bundle interests together until parties have a reliable chance of winning 50% + 1 votes. i.e. it's mathematically advantageous for numerous parties to join with similar parties until there are only 2. Changing the sort of voting that's used is necessary to address this.
The other big issue is the electoral college. 23% of the people can override a united 77% to elect a president. There are various arguments about why this is and how/whether to address it, but it's definitively undemocratic.
And, that doesn't even touch on gerrymandering, money in politics, disenfranchisement, et al.
I hate the two major parties. I don't want either of them. All voting third party does is ensure less votes for candidates more aligned with one's own beliefs. It sucks. It's shitty. It's the political reality in the US.
Yes, hold politicians and parties accountable for shitty positions and policies. Make sure the actions one takes don't indirectly enable worse positions and policies on principle.
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u/Zealousideal-Skin655 Sep 05 '24
Millions of people have benefited from the work Democrats on the environment, healthcare, education, etc. to ignore this facts is childish and pathetic.
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u/stormelc Sep 05 '24
Lol WHAT work? My inhaler still costs me like $300 if I didn't have insurance, when I bought the same medicine for < $10 overseas.
WHAT meaningful change has been brought by the democrats?
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u/Taarguss Reconstructionist Sep 05 '24 edited Sep 05 '24
I’ve been involved with leftist politics for most of my life at this point. I’ve seen this argument, that the Democrats and Republicans are just the same and no one gets anything done every four years and I just think it’s garbage.
One party wants to round up trans people and the other doesn’t. One supports unions and the other doesn’t. One supports student debt relief and the other doesn’t. One wants to push through abortion protections into law and the other doesn’t. One wants to fire teachers for being gay and the other doesn’t. One wants to ban IVF treatment and the other doesn’t. One wants universal pre K and the other doesn’t. One wants a child tax credit and the other doesn’t. One wants a new homeowner tax credit and the other doesn’t. One wants to roll back environmental protections and the other doesn’t. One wants to break up monopolies and the other doesn’t. One supports Christian fascism and the other doesn’t. Democrat policies are a pretty livable baseline to work up from, Republicans want you to be dead. I can go on but I’m at work.
Like, I know the Democrats aren’t moving fast enough on this stuff but acting like it’s all the same is baloooooney. There’s major, major differences between the parties that hold power in America. On Israel, the Democrats do largely suck. When it comes to Israel, we are largely dealing with a uni-party set-up. But I guarantee you Republicans will be worse on everything else. I also think Harris is pushable. How people campaign, the questions they answer, the scripted way they answer them is all calculated to get the most people possible to vote for them. It’s not official foreign policy, it’s vague platitudes. My thinking with regard to this election is that we get someone in power who at the very least doesn’t want us dead or deported, and continue to push. Pressure politics doesn’t end after the election. The only time politicians are lobbyable isn’t while they’re running for office. To think that is to not have understanding of how politics work.
And if you don’t like it this cycle, don’t vote by all means but to pretend that Jill Stein, a caught-red-handed scam artist, is the person to lead us out of how US politics works is just unserious.
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u/Ok_Depth6945 Anti-Zionist Ally Sep 05 '24
This is an objectively untrue smear. They do plenty of organizing on the local and state level. They don't have the coffers of the capitalist class to back them up or the media apparatus, so it's astronomically more difficult AND you don't hear about it when it does happen. Look at the legal efforts of Democrats to drown them if you don't believe me.
If you live in a solid red/blue state, there is 0 downside to casting a vote to get the Green Party across that 5% threshold to qualify for federal matching funds.
AOC is a spineless sellout who dodges every opportunity to represent the working class and victims of empire. She should be agitating, not sheepherding/defusing revolutionary potential among the rank and file.
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u/Taarguss Reconstructionist Sep 05 '24 edited Sep 05 '24
But there’s no revolution coming. It’s America. It’s a college Marxist fantasy. We’ve been historically, notably-around-the-world, not a revolutionary culture. If it didn’t happen at the many, many more substantial chokepoint periods in history before this, it’s not happening now. Things are never actually bad enough here to make it preferable to staying as is. Most people get to go home and watch TV, even if they’re poor.
And why would you want the Green Party to get federal matching anyway? They’re bad at what they do. They’re a shell of what they were 25 years ago. They’re awful organizers. Money wouldn’t fix that, it would just be higher amounts not going to local and state elections, and more money going to useless general election campaigns into the future.
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u/Ok_Depth6945 Anti-Zionist Ally Sep 05 '24
Think about how much money is spent trying to quash labor/any popular movement. For that reason alone, you are wrong. The ruling class will give minor concessions to placate Americans until they can no longer. "There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen" etc etc.
It DID happen at many other substantial chokepoints in history.
At the very least, the TRPF will come knocking.
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u/xGentian_violet Non-Jewish Atheist, Anti-Zionist Sep 05 '24
I am a long time pro-palestine leftist and socialist, you will not suceed in painting criticism of Jill stein as a "liberal capitalist" thing to do, though i see you are trying
The green party are unfotunetaly just russian backed grifters who exploit the situation to help thr right by siphoning away votes from the only other voting choice you actually have
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u/arbmunepp Sep 05 '24
These assholes are both self-serving opportunists. AOC supports the imperial Democratic leadership, and Jill whitewashes the equally genocidal regimes of Putin and Assad.
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u/anticomet Sep 05 '24
Also the greens aren't the only anti-genocide party. There's Claudia De la Cruz of the socialist party as well
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u/MancAngeles69 Sep 05 '24
Yeah I’m in a red state and I’m strongly considering Claudia and PSL. I can’t abide by genocide. I voted Biden in 2020 because we needed a serious government to stem the pandemic. I’ve always voted blue, but Kamala’s DNC speech was downright chilling. I have no doubt that she will just kick the can down the road with Israel and let a genocide continue. She actually frightens me.
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u/Zealousideal-Skin655 Sep 05 '24
Tucker also said Harris frightens him. He called her evil. You have something in common with Tucker Carlson.
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u/MancAngeles69 Sep 05 '24
You don’t think her pledge to make the US armed forced the “most lethal fighting force in history” is troubling? I was giving her a chance but that is a horrifying thing to say.
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Sep 05 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Supercursedrabbit Sep 05 '24
Don’t vote for psl. Psl covers up sexual abuse committed by their members
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u/formerlyrbnmtl Sep 06 '24
Exactly. All politicians including Jill Stein must be thoroughly criticized, people who think she's an exception to the role are delusional
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u/DoctorPainMD Sep 05 '24
Don’t downvote this dude, he’s right.
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Sep 05 '24
Yep, politicians gonna politician. In America, almost every politician serves either a corporation or other government officials before serving the people.
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u/MartinLutherVanHalen Sep 05 '24
There’s a space between whitewashing and nuance. The mainstream American idea of “baddies” like “Putin” is fucking childish. Especially from a country that supports the Saudis and Netanyahu.
Jill Stein is not a very effective political operator. She holds progressive back by staying in leadership while achieving nothing.
AOC is a nice person I am sure but she’s also a mainstream Democrat, not a radical. Those of us who want more radical politics are disappointed.
Both peoplecan be simultaneously right and wrong.
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u/marvsup Sep 05 '24
Especially from a country that supports the Saudis and Netanyahu.
I just want to push back on this idea specifically, not the spirit of your entire comment, because I hate this idea that because your government does bad things you can't criticize other countries' governments. I know you're not trying to say that exactly, but that's the work that the above sentence does in your comment.
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u/Mission_Armadillo389 Sep 05 '24
The US/CIA instigated the Syrian civil war in an attempt to oust Assad (for the sake of Israel). The US/CIA armed jihadist groups to do so. The Syrian government’s role in that war is incomparable to the genocidal Israeli war on Palestine. Maybe get unplugged from neoliberal mass media for a bit.
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u/SexAndSensibility Jewish Sep 05 '24
AOC is completely right. Jill Stein has been seen eating dinner with Putin. The Greens don’t exist anywhere on the ground. I don’t know if they have a single elected official in the US. They only show up every four years to try to siphon votes from the Democrats. Even if by some crazy chance Stein won, which is impossible since she isn’t even on the ballot in every state, she wouldn’t be able to do a single thing because every single elected official would oppose her.
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u/EternalPermabulk Sep 07 '24
My radical opinion: I don’t care if Jill Stein is a democrat spoiler. I don’t care if the Russians are promoting her. I don’t even care if she’s literally on Putin’s payroll like Tim Pool. I like the policies listed on her campaign website, if democrats want my vote they should adopt those policies.
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u/IWantFries21 Non-Jewish Ally Sep 05 '24
AOC isn't wrong lmao
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u/SLCPDLeBaronDivison Sep 05 '24
aoc is a fraud
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u/xGentian_violet Non-Jewish Atheist, Anti-Zionist Sep 05 '24
jill stein is just a russian antivaxx psyop who pops up every 4 years to disrupt the election
this has been my view since 2018
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u/SLCPDLeBaronDivison Sep 05 '24
and her platform is still better than the dems
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u/Zealousideal-Skin655 Sep 05 '24
Jill stein is selfish grifter.
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u/SLCPDLeBaronDivison Sep 05 '24
and yet she is more trustworthy than aoc
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u/BombshellCover Sep 05 '24
Keep repeating your lies
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u/SLCPDLeBaronDivison Sep 05 '24
why would i trust someone who trusts harris?
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u/IWantFries21 Non-Jewish Ally Sep 05 '24
This might sound crazy, but two politicians who don't agree with each other can both be untrustworthy. Which is exactly the case for Kamala Harris and Jill Stein
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u/lilleff512 Jewish Sep 05 '24
Having a great platform doesn't matter when you have no ability to implement it
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u/Klutzy-Pool-1802 Ashkenazi, atheist, postZ Sep 05 '24
One thing Jill didn’t do was address AOC’s critique. This entire response was just trashing AOC without addressing anything she said.
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u/IWantFries21 Non-Jewish Ally Sep 05 '24
That's because AOC's critique has merit and Jill Stein likes to avoid any meaningful criticism of her/her campaign
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u/michaelkeatonbutgay Sep 05 '24
I'm not american, I've barely heard of Jill Stein. But whoever she is, she isn't wrong here?
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u/wandrin_star Sep 05 '24
Jill Stein occasionally says smart things. This is not one of those times. I’m still unclear on what leads people to believe her campaign is not a Russian psyop.
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u/IWantFries21 Non-Jewish Ally Sep 05 '24
I think it's because she came out in support of Palestine relatively early on and that's clouded many people's analysis of her and her campaign
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u/calcifiedNeurotic Atheist Sep 06 '24
while i think that the green party is useless, aoc has done a thousand times more evil than stein could ever dream of doing by muddying the waters as to who palestine’s tormentors are.
in both society and individual life, it is a comforting thought to imagine that there is somebody up there who’s looking out for us. it is why a certain kind of middle class american who has lost what genuine cultural spiritual connection they once had either LARPs an imagined connection to the faiths’ reactionary misleaders to drown out any fears of uncertainty, or attempts to substitute faith with petty messianic idols — aoc and the cowardly progressives on the one hand, and prophets of what they call a “uniparty” on the other. but the truth is that our political and religious communities alike have to be reconvened, rebuilt. until then, there is no place for us to pray at.
i will say that rashida tlaib is the only person in politics who has remotely retained my trust. she does not claim to be a leader of the cowardly progressives, or to have the social alternative that we have been long struggling to create. but it is due to those exact qualities (and perhaps against her will) that tlaib is the symbol of an unbeaten struggle which still burns in the unfeeling heart of empire; if that inspires a single person from palestine to detroit to work for the liberation of humanity, then perhaps all of the setbacks that the US solidarity movement has faced was for something.
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u/isawasin Non-Jewish Ally Sep 06 '24
Would you mind if I shared, quoted your comment? I think it's very reasonable and considered.
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u/Kind_Midas Sep 05 '24
Oh boy a post about a 3rd party candidate! I can't wait to read about how I'm going to throw my vote away by voting 3rd party.
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u/yellow_parenti Sep 06 '24
Langley's favorite platform lives up to its reputation
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u/1624throwaway1876 Sep 05 '24
Why don’t yall just go vote for Donald Trump.
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u/TinyElephant574 Non-Jewish Ally Sep 05 '24
Not saying that I support Jill Stein (personally I think she sucks too and I'm not voting for her) but if someone, especially Arab and Palestinian Americans, doesn't want to vote, or chooses to vote Green this election, I really can't blame them considering the circumstances with how terrible this genocide is. If I was in their shoes, I'd probably do the same thing so I understand it. I'm not delusional, I know the Greens won't win. But the democrats have shown time and time again that they really don't give af about them and push them away at every opportunity so they can keep killing their families. It is the dems' responsibility to earn their vote, and they are doing the exact opposite. In what world would Dems ever expect the Muslim or anti-genocide vote after that?
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u/1624throwaway1876 Sep 06 '24
Ahhh yes. Because they will get a better deal in fascist America with Donald Trump in power. Makes sense.
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