Israeli 18-year-olds Soul Behar Tzalik and Iddo Elam refuse to enlist in IDF, await prison sentences

[u/NewVentures66]

https://www.instagram.com/p/DC36kUcN0Yn/?igsh=eGU0dmZqYjlwc205

[u/BooknFilmNerd09]

I’m pretty sure that we’ll soon be seeing some very intelligent and not at all permanently online people saying to these actual kids still living with their parents: ”Umm, you want a cookie, or something?! Leave Palestine, you settlers!”, expecting them to get in a rowboat and fucking stroke their way to Greece, or something… 🙄

[u/reenajo → u/BooknFilmNerd09]

Thankfully the overwhelming majority of Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims I know do not think like this, and I have never heard such an opinion uttered non-anonymously in real life.

Online, it's not infrequently Zionist plants who say such things, btw -- to try to make anti-zionists look bad and further the Zionist narrative.

[u/BooknFilmNerd09 → u/reenajo]

Well, I have seen some not at all anonymous Palestinians (and white allies) say out loud, unambiguously, that “all settlers must leave Palestine”.

It seems like a pretty sizable amount of people want an Algeria or Zimbabwe style liberation of Palestine — not a South Africa style one…

[u/TutsiRoach → u/BooknFilmNerd09]

Ask in south africa, ireland, newzeland etc before people were given equal rights and 90+% would have said they wanted their country back and the colonists to leave.

The reality is once treated like a human being this sentiment all but vanishes.

I like others here can attest that i have never heard a Palestinian say this ever, even 20 years ago when it was in their charter those i spoke with just wanted peace and for their children to be safe. Many wanted recent arrivals to leave but conceded voluntarily that for those with nowhere else to go or who were born into israel would be welcome to stay provided they had equal rights

[u/reenajo → u/BooknFilmNerd09]

I think typically if you ask these people "does "all settlers" include Jews born on the land with some settler ancestry, who are willing to give up Jewish privilege and integrate into decolonized Palestinian society with equal rights?" in a way that doesn't sound like you're attacking or undermining their attempt to prioritize Palestinian liberation, they'll say "no", or reveal misconceptions about the origins of Israelis that are useful to correct.

[u/acacia_tree → u/BooknFilmNerd09]

it's a bit of an ignorant take. personally I think many settlers should leave. But you get conscripted when you're 18. even if you plan to refuse military and want to leave the country how can you do that when you're a child and your country hates when people leave? most of these kids families are hardcore zionist and support the apartheid and genocide, their parents won't let them leave let alone help them. if their choices are leave or go to an Israeli military prison for an indefinite amount of time, surely they would just leave the country

[u/BooknFilmNerd09 → u/acacia_tree]

I can understand wanting Israelis who were born abroad (a fairly small percentage at this point) to leave…but not the ones who were born there, and especially not the ones who are still living with their parents. But yeah, it’s pretty obvious that these kids aren’t able to leave, for the reasons you stated.

[u/BooknFilmNerd09 → u/[deleted]]

So, you think the majority should leave, but that some kind of Jewish community should remain? Also, most Israeli Jews may be racist, but only a minority of them are rapists or murderers of Palestinians…

Most Israelis will probably leave by their own free will, as often happens when settler states fall, but many of them will not. And the old Ultra-Orthodox communities obviously aren’t going anywhere. Even PIJ doesn’t want to get rid of the Neturei Karta, for instance…

[u/BooknFilmNerd09 → u/[deleted]]

You can’t really call someone a rapist or a murderer unless they have personally actually committed rape or murder, in my humble opinion… That’s just how I see things, though.

[u/a_f_s-29 → u/BooknFilmNerd09]

I think Palestinians are allowed to vent, but allies need to be more mindful and also get their morals straight

[u/BooknFilmNerd09 → u/a_f_s-29]

Yeah, but the thing is that I have also seen “allies” say this kind of shit about Israelis. Like that blonde British girl on TikTok, Isobel (a.k.a. “dumbbirchtree”). She has me blocked, but most of you guys can probably see her content.

[u/a_f_s-29 → u/BooknFilmNerd09]

Yeah I hate that line of thinking and try to call it out wherever I see it, it’s exactly the kind of ideology that causes these problems in the first place

[u/BooknFilmNerd09 → u/a_f_s-29]

It definitely is.