r/JewsOfConscience • u/NewVentures66 Anti-Zionist Ally • Nov 28 '24
Activism Israeli 18-year-olds Soul Behar Tzalik and Iddo Elam refuse to enlist in IDF, await prison sentences
https://www.instagram.com/p/DC36kUcN0Yn/?igsh=eGU0dmZqYjlwc20561
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u/EzzoMahfouz Nov 28 '24
Strong people
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u/snarkitall 29d ago
I heard the really good point made that refusing before you even join is realllllly hard, much harder than the people who decide to leave during their service or as reserves. because you're so young, and everyone around you is doing exactly the same thing, and you have no community who might understand what you're going through.
people who have some service can "blend in" a little bit and hide a bit that they're anti-army if they need to but people who refuse to even enlist at all can't hide that and are treated really badly.
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u/BarGroundbreaking862 Non-Jewish Ally 29d ago
You can send them a nice message.
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u/zb0t1 Non-Jewish Ally 29d ago
I always want to talk to others who stand up for what's right, thank you for giving me this opportunity, we should all send them wholesome messages, and let them know that we can only follow their path of courage, to do what they did is the right thing to make this world better.
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u/BarGroundbreaking862 Non-Jewish Ally 28d ago
I agree, and it doesn’t have to just be a one-time thing. We can send messages every week or every month. Whatever it takes to show them we see them and we appreciate them.
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u/Expensive-Success301 29d ago
May their humanity become infectious and spread throughout zionist israel so that all young Israelis have a similar awakening of consciousness and compassion.
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u/halconpequena 29d ago
May Allah protect them in all ways and make their paths forward easy for them and keep them steadfast and may they inspire others to also do the right thing from them, Ameen
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u/anonymousposter121 29d ago
Crazy to think you can murder a Palestinian, rape women, children and captives and probably get a medal in the IDF .. but refuse to enlist and you face jail time.
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u/BooknFilmNerd09 Anti-Zionist Ally 29d ago
I’m pretty sure that we’ll soon be seeing some very intelligent and not at all permanently online people saying to these actual kids still living with their parents: ”Umm, you want a cookie, or something?! Leave Palestine, you settlers!”, expecting them to get in a rowboat and fucking stroke their way to Greece, or something… 🙄
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u/reenajo 28d ago
Thankfully the overwhelming majority of Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims I know do not think like this, and I have never heard such an opinion uttered non-anonymously in real life.
Online, it's not infrequently Zionist plants who say such things, btw -- to try to make anti-zionists look bad and further the Zionist narrative.
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u/BooknFilmNerd09 Anti-Zionist Ally 28d ago
Well, I have seen some not at all anonymous Palestinians (and white allies) say out loud, unambiguously, that “all settlers must leave Palestine”.
It seems like a pretty sizable amount of people want an Algeria or Zimbabwe style liberation of Palestine — not a South Africa style one…
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u/TutsiRoach 25d ago
Ask in south africa, ireland, newzeland etc before people were given equal rights and 90+% would have said they wanted their country back and the colonists to leave.
The reality is once treated like a human being this sentiment all but vanishes.
I like others here can attest that i have never heard a Palestinian say this ever, even 20 years ago when it was in their charter those i spoke with just wanted peace and for their children to be safe. Many wanted recent arrivals to leave but conceded voluntarily that for those with nowhere else to go or who were born into israel would be welcome to stay provided they had equal rights
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u/reenajo 28d ago
I think typically if you ask these people "does "all settlers" include Jews born on the land with some settler ancestry, who are willing to give up Jewish privilege and integrate into decolonized Palestinian society with equal rights?" in a way that doesn't sound like you're attacking or undermining their attempt to prioritize Palestinian liberation, they'll say "no", or reveal misconceptions about the origins of Israelis that are useful to correct.
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u/acacia_tree Reform Ashkie Diasporist 28d ago edited 28d ago
it's a bit of an ignorant take. personally I think many settlers should leave. But you get conscripted when you're 18. even if you plan to refuse military and want to leave the country how can you do that when you're a child and your country hates when people leave? most of these kids families are hardcore zionist and support the apartheid and genocide, their parents won't let them leave let alone help them. if their choices are leave or go to an Israeli military prison for an indefinite amount of time, surely they would just leave the country
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u/BooknFilmNerd09 Anti-Zionist Ally 28d ago
I can understand wanting Israelis who were born abroad (a fairly small percentage at this point) to leave…but not the ones who were born there, and especially not the ones who are still living with their parents. But yeah, it’s pretty obvious that these kids aren’t able to leave, for the reasons you stated.
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28d ago
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u/BooknFilmNerd09 Anti-Zionist Ally 28d ago
So, you think the majority should leave, but that some kind of Jewish community should remain? Also, most Israeli Jews may be racist, but only a minority of them are rapists or murderers of Palestinians…
Most Israelis will probably leave by their own free will, as often happens when settler states fall, but many of them will not. And the old Ultra-Orthodox communities obviously aren’t going anywhere. Even PIJ doesn’t want to get rid of the Neturei Karta, for instance…
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28d ago
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u/BooknFilmNerd09 Anti-Zionist Ally 28d ago
You can’t really call someone a rapist or a murderer unless they have personally actually committed rape or murder, in my humble opinion… That’s just how I see things, though.
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u/a_f_s-29 26d ago
I think Palestinians are allowed to vent, but allies need to be more mindful and also get their morals straight
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u/BooknFilmNerd09 Anti-Zionist Ally 26d ago
Yeah, but the thing is that I have also seen “allies” say this kind of shit about Israelis. Like that blonde British girl on TikTok, Isobel (a.k.a. “dumbbirchtree”). She has me blocked, but most of you guys can probably see her content.
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u/a_f_s-29 26d ago
Yeah I hate that line of thinking and try to call it out wherever I see it, it’s exactly the kind of ideology that causes these problems in the first place
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