r/JewsOfConscience • u/AutoModerator • Oct 23 '24

AAJ "Ask A Jew" Wednesday

It's everyone's favorite day of the week, "Ask A (Anti-Zionist) Jew" Wednesday! Ask whatever you want to know, within the sub rules, notably that this is not a debate sub and do not import drama from other subreddits. That aside, have fun! We love to dialogue with our non-Jewish siblings.

Please remember to pick an appropriate user-flair in order to participate! Thanks!

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u/Travelisty Non-denominational Oct 23 '24

Accepting that genocide is a violation of human rights, and that one of two parties will win the US election, how can one be pro-human rights and considering allowing tyrant trump to win?

Sure the democratic candidate sucks for POTUS but one candidate did institute a Muslim ban, move and embassy to Jerusalem and is also a favorite of Netyanhu to win the election?

I understand my question is full of basis but I really don’t see how one can choose to abstain from this election without being a schmuck.

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u/soonerfreak Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 24 '24

Harris is aiding a genocide and she has stated zero plans that would help the people of Texas regarding abortion and LGBT rights. Like what's she doing on day 1 if they get 51 seats in the senate and 218 in the House? Can't put abortion back into law as long as SCOTUS is 6-3. She could call on stacking the Court, she could call for uncapping the House, she could call on ending the filibuster for everything. Right now the best we will get is some abortion law they take forever to pass so the legal challenge lasts just long enough that abortion is on the ballot again in 2028. I'll vote Democrat on the rest of the ballot to flip Congress and do what I can in Texas but I will not vote for a person who would hang at Nuremberg and has zero plans to make America better domestically.

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u/Pitiful_Meringue_57 Jewish Oct 24 '24

I don’t think u fully understand the SCOTUS decision. A democratic majority absolutely could make a national right to abortion. The case just said that the court didn’t have a right to force all states to allow abortion, but it didn’t say that the legislature doesn’t have a right to.

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u/soonerfreak Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 24 '24

All you have to do is look at the gay wedding website case and the praying football coach case to see SCOTUS doesn't care about how it gets to their opinion now. Neither case had legitimate standing, the website owner had never received a single order and the coach simply had his contract not renewed but they took both cases and handed down bullshit rulings. They will toss out abortion the exact same way, the 6 conservatives on the Court will rule how they please. Also if you take their logic on over turning Roe and treat it as legitimate and follow through, multiple other civil rights cases like interracial marriage are at risk.

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u/Pitiful_Meringue_57 Jewish Oct 24 '24

i don’t treat it as legitimate lol it’s bs. But the scope of the ruling isn’t abt what the legislature is allowed to do meaning that the dodds decision doesn’t stop a right to a abortion law from getting passed. With a dem president and a dem congress they have every opportunity to pass it. If the courts wanted to throw it out it would be an entirely different case

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u/soonerfreak Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 24 '24

Well yeah they can pass one, but it won't stay on the books longer than it takes to get to SCOTUS. Stacking the Court and passing a law must happen together.

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u/Pitiful_Meringue_57 Jewish Oct 24 '24

I don’t think we should necessarily expect a scotus ruling that abortion is murder just yet. I agree that we need to stack the court but for other reasons. I think it would be ok to pass a law and see what happens tbh

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u/soonerfreak Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 24 '24

They won't call it murder, they will pick somewhere in the Constitution that making abortion legal is a power belonging to the states. State Supreme Courts have a lot of partisan morons, SCOTUS only has two, the other 4 are smart enough to avoid the murder card for now.

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u/teddyburke Secular, Jewish, Anti-Zionist Oct 23 '24

My take on this for the past year has been, “genocide is not going to be on the ballot.”

In other words, it shouldn’t even be a consideration when it comes to voting for the next president. Yes, Harris would objectively be better, but I’m not really interested in “lesser of two evils” arguments when both sides are unacceptable (and to be clear, there are only two options in this election).

It sucks, but that’s the reality of the situation. Voting can only ever change so much, so you should never look at it as a reflection of your moral core values. It’s one small thing you can do to be politically engaged, and you should think of it less as a solution, and more of a way to move things in a direction you want to see them going - even if that movement just means not making things worse, and less conducive to bringing about the changes you want to see.

Voting for Harris is not voting for genocide, but voting for Trump will remove even more power from you as a voice in a nominally democratic society.

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u/gmbxbndp Jewish Communist Oct 23 '24

I'd argue that Democrats would be better on domestic issues, but the parties are essentially identical when it comes to foreign policy. Democrats have nicer rhetoric, but when it comes to action- the part that actually matters- both Democrats and Republicans are entirely down for the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. If you have family who are in Palestine, arguing that you should co-sign their slaughter because it'll be good for the nation that's enabling it really isn't the sort of argument that gets you to the polls.

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u/Cornexclamationpoint Ashkenazi Oct 24 '24

I wouldn't say the Democrats are pro-ethnic cleansing, it's just that their opposition tends to boil down to tsk-tsk.  Trump on the other hand would stand there with pom poms and cheer as they loaded bombs onto the planes.

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u/JZcomedy Jewish Oct 23 '24

Also noteworthy that Trump would let Netanyahu annex the West Bank. The idea that Kamala is just as bad is absurd. It disheartens me to see that sentiment so widespread here

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u/PlinyToTrajan Non-Jewish Ally (Jewish ancestry & relatives) Oct 23 '24 edited Oct 23 '24

It's not that she's just as bad, but that she's exceeded all reasonable boundaries and has engaged in conduct that is beyond-the-pale. The contempt I feel for the Biden-Harris administration is visceral. Trump threatens to do worse things but hasn't ever actually done them. (Nonetheless, I will be voting for Harris, on the Working Families Party line in New York. At least that way I do one clearly good thing: help the Working Families Party maintain its ballot access.)

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u/soonerfreak Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 24 '24

Harris has shown absolutely zero inclination she will stop the annexation of West Bank. It's already happening, they control 60% of the West Bank and take more land and destroy more Palestinian property every year. The only difference between the two parties on Israel/Palestine is how openly they support what's happening.

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u/Thisisme8719 Arab Jew Oct 24 '24

Plus, I don't see the big deal in Israel formally annexing any part of the West Bank. It's already annexed for all but formal ways. Settlers are treated as civilians like any other Israeli, homes are demolished for whichever reason, people get displaced under different pretexts, even Area A is subject to Israeli orders. Would it make the Palestinians in the West Bank worse off? It's not like there aren't people being evicted or pushed out because of the settler-scum, pogroms happen periodically with the police doing nothing to protect them, and the Israeli authorities obstruct their civic engagement. It wouldn't legalize the settlements or even the occupation itself. East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights are still not considered parts of Israel by the international community, and the ICJ even included East Jerusalem in the territories that Israel has to get the fuck out of as soon as possible (along with the rest of Occupied Palestine).

I'm not claiming Trump wouldn't be worse than Harris on the Israel-Palestine issue. But the threat of annexation is meaningless. It's mildly provocative at best, but not as horrendous as the Abraham Accords (which the Democrats lauded while Trump was still in office and wanted to advance under Biden)

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u/Travelisty Non-denominational Oct 23 '24

Yup I know I am asking a baited question but I still am not getting any good answers in my opinion.

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u/JZcomedy Jewish Oct 23 '24

Ideological purity > real world thinking

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u/[deleted] Oct 23 '24 edited Oct 23 '24

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u/Travelisty Non-denominational Oct 23 '24

I keep on forgetting how the democrats gave us a stacked 6-3 Supreme Court that allowed the repealing of Roe V Wade.

Democrats suck but I’d much gain a foot in progress than lose a mile.

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u/Saul_al-Rakoun Conservadox & Marxist Oct 23 '24

And yet that is what they did, with near-surgical precision. You're really deluded, buddy. You don't get "progress" with Democrats, what they do is scream about how the leopards are going to eat all our faces and we have to vote for them to keep the leopard door closed, but as soon as we vote for them they open the leopard door.

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u/Travelisty Non-denominational Oct 23 '24

I disagree with your fundamental argument that “both parties are the same” since I truly believe they are not. The great new deal happened under FDR. Marriage equality happened under Obama.

On the other hand, Bush got us the Iraq war. Reagan promoted trickle down economics.

Of course the greatest enemy of a leftist is another leftist but please, both parties are the same is such a weak argument if you are going to do nothing to promote human rights.

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u/[deleted] Oct 23 '24

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