r/JewsOfConscience • u/AutoModerator • Oct 23 '24
AAJ "Ask A Jew" Wednesday
It's everyone's favorite day of the week, "Ask A (Anti-Zionist) Jew" Wednesday! Ask whatever you want to know, within the sub rules, notably that this is not a debate sub and do not import drama from other subreddits. That aside, have fun! We love to dialogue with our non-Jewish siblings.
Please remember to pick an appropriate user-flair in order to participate! Thanks!
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Oct 23 '24
[deleted]
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u/TonyJadangus Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 23 '24
Tashlich, fasting Yom Kippur and spending time inside the Sukkah.
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u/NeitherFollowing4305 Non-Jewish Ally (Christian) Oct 23 '24
This may be a pointless question but to Jews and non-Jews here- what is your favourite religious holiday? I don't know a thing about religious holidays outside of Christianity, aside from that most of them honestly look a lot more interesting and fun then any religious holiday i've ever experienced. Especially many of the Jewish holidays i have to admit. 😂
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u/Cornexclamationpoint Ashkenazi Oct 24 '24
I'd probably say Purim or Hanukkah. Passover has some of the best symbolism, but matzo for a week knocks it down a few pegs.
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u/NeitherFollowing4305 Non-Jewish Ally (Christian) Oct 26 '24
Im not familiar with the term "Matzo". What does it mean?
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u/sudo_apt-get_intrnet LGBTQ Jew Oct 27 '24
During Passover we aren't supposed to eat any leavened bread. Instead we eat "matzo"/"matzah", which is a special kind of unleavened cracker-like flatbread. Think a plate-sized, less soft saltine.
If you've heard of "matzah ball soup" its a chicken stock soup made with a ball of matzah that's crushed, mixed with water & eggs into a paste, and then that paste is reshaped into a ball before being placed into the soup.
Honestly a lot of the Matzah-based Passover cuisine isn't that bad, but try only eating saltine-based bread products for a week and you'd probably get tired of it too.
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u/NeitherFollowing4305 Non-Jewish Ally (Christian) Oct 27 '24
Thank you for explaining that to me. I can only imagine how boring eating only select foods for a week can be as someone who gets a different craving for something different every day.
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u/sudo_apt-get_intrnet LGBTQ Jew Oct 24 '24
Probably Purim. Its basically Jewish Halloween with more drinking (if you can believe it).
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u/NeitherFollowing4305 Non-Jewish Ally (Christian) Oct 26 '24
Halloween and drinking?! Sign me up please thats definitely my kind of holiday.
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u/soonerfreak Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 24 '24
Christmas, there are famous Christmas movies like It's a Wonderful Life and Miracle on 34th street my WASP mom never saw till she married my Jewish dad. We did Hanukkah when I was younger and the one gift a day was a pretty sweet deal lol.
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u/NeitherFollowing4305 Non-Jewish Ally (Christian) Oct 24 '24
Christmas is pretty goated even if you aren't religious. That's what i like about Christmas- how its become less of a religious holiday for many and more of just a Western holiday. Hanukkah sounds really cool, i'd love getting a gift a day lol
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u/musingmarkhor Non-Jewish Ally Oct 24 '24
I was curious as to how many Jewish people are parts of groups like Jews Of Conscience and Jewish Voice of Peace. The impression I have gotten from these communities as well as the few Israelis who have become anti-Zionist are that they are still a minority. What does the proportion look like and is it growing?
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u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 24 '24
I was in JVP during college years ago.
JVP has become an easy fall-guy for fake Leftists and fake progressives.
They nit-pick at the group with all the familiar bullshit logic of conflation.
I.e., take something a regional chapter did and conflate it to the entire organization.
Lots of concern-trolling and just bad faith discourse against JVP.
They are the ones on the frontlines of this issue doing something.
So of course pro-Israel astroturfers will want to disparage them.
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u/valonianfool Anti-Zionist Oct 25 '24
I've seen a lot of claims from zionists against JVP, including accusing them of "downplaying the holocaust".
I think that accusation comes from a JVP leader who denied a request for talking about the Holocaust at an event or something, I don't quite remember what it was. After some searching I found the leader Elmer Bergen being accused of denying that judaism is a culture and a people and says its just a religion.
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u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 25 '24
All bullshit.
Just apply the underlying logic of that argument to ANY pro-Israel NGO, organization, student group, etc.
Take one thing a guy said and conflate it with everything. See how that ends up painting those pro-Israel groups.
Of course, they would reject that characterization as well.
But they're happy to traffic in reductive comparisons when it's targeting a group they're opposed to ideologically.
If you fixate on JVP, then you're not a leftist or a progressive.
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u/lycogenesis Anti-Zionist Oct 23 '24
Does anyone know where i could read about the historic presence of jews in the middle east? specifically the levantine region in the pre-israel era, i want to learn about their dynamic and part of their area's culture but i genuinely cant find a book that doesnt start with "muslim colonizers go brrr"
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u/Thisisme8719 Arab Jew Oct 23 '24
but i genuinely cant find a book that doesnt start with "muslim colonizers go brrr"
Where are you seeing that? Even conservative specialists generally don't push that nonsense with some exceptions here and there (obviously not counting unscholarly garbage like Lyn Julius' book).
I can give you recommendations if you're more specific with what you want, like region or era.4
u/specialistsets Non-denominational Oct 23 '24
What books are you referring to? There are many dozens of non-political academic books that cover the vast and varied Jewish history of the region.
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u/lycogenesis Anti-Zionist Oct 23 '24
Can you recommend one?
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u/specialistsets Non-denominational Oct 23 '24
I couldn't recommend a single comprehensive book, good ones cover particular locations, communities, time periods or themes. Even the Levant is incredibly broad when it comes to Jewish history. Do you have a more specific area of focus?
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u/loselyconscious Traditionally Radical Oct 23 '24
Many chapters in the academic anthology The Cultures of the Jews edited by David Biale
Coming of Age in Medieval Egypt: Female Adolescence, Jewish Law, and Ordinary Culture by Eve Krakowski
Sacred Trash: The Lost and Found World of the Cairo Geniza by Hoffman and Cole
One Palestine, Complete by Tom Segev
Anything written by Ella Shohat
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u/soonerfreak Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 24 '24
If you are open to podcasts, Bibical Time Machine has several episodes discussing different aspects of daily life for ancient Jews in the Levant. This also covers what areas they would have been in. I know Dan McClellan has talked about it on his YouTube channel but also on Data Over Dogma about how the Judea people may have moved from their kingdom to Israel and kind of adopted the name and culture as well as the God. Like IIRC the name Jerusalem predates Jews/Hebrew.
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u/PlinyToTrajan Non-Jewish Ally (Jewish ancestry & relatives) Oct 23 '24
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u/HowAManAimS Non-Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 25 '24
Can someone translate the words on this post? https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/comments/1gb7okm/see_pictures_of_what_the_israeli_army_did_inside/
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u/lucash7 Non-Jewish Ally Oct 23 '24
So, this may have been asked before, but I’m not a particularly religious person. I grew up in a traditionally conservative Christian household but over the years drifted and find myself current in the realm of agnosticism/apathetic skeptic (basically I don’t know but I’ve more concern for how people act/treating others kind; etc. than whether there is one or more deity).
However; over the last many months (year/s?) that I’ve been a part of this sub I’ve been drawn to the activist (for want of a better term) history; knowledge based, etc. undertones within Judaism that I have read about (if that makes sense? Forgive me; it’s late). As such I am curious about reading and learning more. I feel like perhaps there might be a place for me within it:
Books? Articles? Documentaries? Directions?
I basically want to learn more.
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u/crumpledcactus Jewish Oct 23 '24
I would look into the works of R. Sherwin Wine, and one of R. Wine's inspirations, R. Mordecai Kaplan. Wine was the founder of an entire movement - Humanistic Judaism, as was Kaplan with Reconstructionist Judaism.
While Kaplan saw the Jewish people are a civlization within civilization, Wine saw Jews as any person who enacts Judaism as a series of cultural practises within the eyes of a Jewish community. In his view, Jewish is more of a verb than an adjective.
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u/valonianfool Anti-Zionist Oct 25 '24
What's your opinion on the claim that using the words "israhell" and "isnotreal" are antisemitic because Israel is older than the nation-state and is an important concept in Judaism?
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u/sudo_apt-get_intrnet LGBTQ Jew Oct 26 '24
While not inherently antisemitic, I do side-eye anyone who uses those terms. I personally haven't met anyone who uses those words who doesn't also believe in some combination of actual anti-Israeli bigotry ("they're all genetically ugly"/"Israel has no culture, its all fake") or straight-up antisemitism ("its because they believe they're Gds chosen people"/"they should all go back to Poland"). Those terms point to someone removing any and all nuance from their thought process and demonizing anything and everything they personally associate with "Zionism", whatever murky definition they possess.
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u/specialistsets Non-denominational Oct 27 '24
It's not just that the term "Israel" is older than the State of Israel, it's that "Israel" is how Jews have referred to the Jewish People for thousands of years, long before there was anything called "Judaism" (which is a comparatively recent term that historically wasn't used in the Jewish religion)
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u/valonianfool Anti-Zionist Oct 27 '24
Ok, but does this mean its wrong to use "israehell" to criticize the modern nation state?
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u/specialistsets Non-denominational Oct 27 '24
I can't say if it's right or wrong. But I agree with the other user who said that those who use such terms often make loaded claims about Israelis and Jews generally that crosses into antisemitism.
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u/Travelisty Non-denominational Oct 23 '24
Accepting that genocide is a violation of human rights, and that one of two parties will win the US election, how can one be pro-human rights and considering allowing tyrant trump to win?
Sure the democratic candidate sucks for POTUS but one candidate did institute a Muslim ban, move and embassy to Jerusalem and is also a favorite of Netyanhu to win the election?
I understand my question is full of basis but I really don’t see how one can choose to abstain from this election without being a schmuck.
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u/soonerfreak Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 24 '24
Harris is aiding a genocide and she has stated zero plans that would help the people of Texas regarding abortion and LGBT rights. Like what's she doing on day 1 if they get 51 seats in the senate and 218 in the House? Can't put abortion back into law as long as SCOTUS is 6-3. She could call on stacking the Court, she could call for uncapping the House, she could call on ending the filibuster for everything. Right now the best we will get is some abortion law they take forever to pass so the legal challenge lasts just long enough that abortion is on the ballot again in 2028. I'll vote Democrat on the rest of the ballot to flip Congress and do what I can in Texas but I will not vote for a person who would hang at Nuremberg and has zero plans to make America better domestically.
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u/Pitiful_Meringue_57 Jewish Oct 24 '24
I don’t think u fully understand the SCOTUS decision. A democratic majority absolutely could make a national right to abortion. The case just said that the court didn’t have a right to force all states to allow abortion, but it didn’t say that the legislature doesn’t have a right to.
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u/soonerfreak Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 24 '24
All you have to do is look at the gay wedding website case and the praying football coach case to see SCOTUS doesn't care about how it gets to their opinion now. Neither case had legitimate standing, the website owner had never received a single order and the coach simply had his contract not renewed but they took both cases and handed down bullshit rulings. They will toss out abortion the exact same way, the 6 conservatives on the Court will rule how they please. Also if you take their logic on over turning Roe and treat it as legitimate and follow through, multiple other civil rights cases like interracial marriage are at risk.
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u/Pitiful_Meringue_57 Jewish Oct 24 '24
i don’t treat it as legitimate lol it’s bs. But the scope of the ruling isn’t abt what the legislature is allowed to do meaning that the dodds decision doesn’t stop a right to a abortion law from getting passed. With a dem president and a dem congress they have every opportunity to pass it. If the courts wanted to throw it out it would be an entirely different case
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u/soonerfreak Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 24 '24
Well yeah they can pass one, but it won't stay on the books longer than it takes to get to SCOTUS. Stacking the Court and passing a law must happen together.
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u/Pitiful_Meringue_57 Jewish Oct 24 '24
I don’t think we should necessarily expect a scotus ruling that abortion is murder just yet. I agree that we need to stack the court but for other reasons. I think it would be ok to pass a law and see what happens tbh
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u/soonerfreak Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 24 '24
They won't call it murder, they will pick somewhere in the Constitution that making abortion legal is a power belonging to the states. State Supreme Courts have a lot of partisan morons, SCOTUS only has two, the other 4 are smart enough to avoid the murder card for now.
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u/teddyburke Secular, Jewish, Anti-Zionist Oct 23 '24
My take on this for the past year has been, “genocide is not going to be on the ballot.”
In other words, it shouldn’t even be a consideration when it comes to voting for the next president. Yes, Harris would objectively be better, but I’m not really interested in “lesser of two evils” arguments when both sides are unacceptable (and to be clear, there are only two options in this election).
It sucks, but that’s the reality of the situation. Voting can only ever change so much, so you should never look at it as a reflection of your moral core values. It’s one small thing you can do to be politically engaged, and you should think of it less as a solution, and more of a way to move things in a direction you want to see them going - even if that movement just means not making things worse, and less conducive to bringing about the changes you want to see.
Voting for Harris is not voting for genocide, but voting for Trump will remove even more power from you as a voice in a nominally democratic society.
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u/gmbxbndp Jewish Communist Oct 23 '24
I'd argue that Democrats would be better on domestic issues, but the parties are essentially identical when it comes to foreign policy. Democrats have nicer rhetoric, but when it comes to action- the part that actually matters- both Democrats and Republicans are entirely down for the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. If you have family who are in Palestine, arguing that you should co-sign their slaughter because it'll be good for the nation that's enabling it really isn't the sort of argument that gets you to the polls.
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u/Cornexclamationpoint Ashkenazi Oct 24 '24
I wouldn't say the Democrats are pro-ethnic cleansing, it's just that their opposition tends to boil down to tsk-tsk. Trump on the other hand would stand there with pom poms and cheer as they loaded bombs onto the planes.
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u/JZcomedy Jewish Oct 23 '24
Also noteworthy that Trump would let Netanyahu annex the West Bank. The idea that Kamala is just as bad is absurd. It disheartens me to see that sentiment so widespread here
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u/PlinyToTrajan Non-Jewish Ally (Jewish ancestry & relatives) Oct 23 '24 edited Oct 23 '24
It's not that she's just as bad, but that she's exceeded all reasonable boundaries and has engaged in conduct that is beyond-the-pale. The contempt I feel for the Biden-Harris administration is visceral. Trump threatens to do worse things but hasn't ever actually done them. (Nonetheless, I will be voting for Harris, on the Working Families Party line in New York. At least that way I do one clearly good thing: help the Working Families Party maintain its ballot access.)
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u/soonerfreak Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 24 '24
Harris has shown absolutely zero inclination she will stop the annexation of West Bank. It's already happening, they control 60% of the West Bank and take more land and destroy more Palestinian property every year. The only difference between the two parties on Israel/Palestine is how openly they support what's happening.
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u/Thisisme8719 Arab Jew Oct 24 '24
Plus, I don't see the big deal in Israel formally annexing any part of the West Bank. It's already annexed for all but formal ways. Settlers are treated as civilians like any other Israeli, homes are demolished for whichever reason, people get displaced under different pretexts, even Area A is subject to Israeli orders. Would it make the Palestinians in the West Bank worse off? It's not like there aren't people being evicted or pushed out because of the settler-scum, pogroms happen periodically with the police doing nothing to protect them, and the Israeli authorities obstruct their civic engagement. It wouldn't legalize the settlements or even the occupation itself. East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights are still not considered parts of Israel by the international community, and the ICJ even included East Jerusalem in the territories that Israel has to get the fuck out of as soon as possible (along with the rest of Occupied Palestine).
I'm not claiming Trump wouldn't be worse than Harris on the Israel-Palestine issue. But the threat of annexation is meaningless. It's mildly provocative at best, but not as horrendous as the Abraham Accords (which the Democrats lauded while Trump was still in office and wanted to advance under Biden)
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u/Travelisty Non-denominational Oct 23 '24
Yup I know I am asking a baited question but I still am not getting any good answers in my opinion.
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Oct 23 '24 edited Oct 23 '24
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u/Travelisty Non-denominational Oct 23 '24
I keep on forgetting how the democrats gave us a stacked 6-3 Supreme Court that allowed the repealing of Roe V Wade.
Democrats suck but I’d much gain a foot in progress than lose a mile.
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u/Saul_al-Rakoun Conservadox & Marxist Oct 23 '24
And yet that is what they did, with near-surgical precision. You're really deluded, buddy. You don't get "progress" with Democrats, what they do is scream about how the leopards are going to eat all our faces and we have to vote for them to keep the leopard door closed, but as soon as we vote for them they open the leopard door.
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u/Travelisty Non-denominational Oct 23 '24
I disagree with your fundamental argument that “both parties are the same” since I truly believe they are not. The great new deal happened under FDR. Marriage equality happened under Obama.
On the other hand, Bush got us the Iraq war. Reagan promoted trickle down economics.
Of course the greatest enemy of a leftist is another leftist but please, both parties are the same is such a weak argument if you are going to do nothing to promote human rights.
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Oct 23 '24
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u/PlinyToTrajan Non-Jewish Ally (Jewish ancestry & relatives) Oct 23 '24
Where are the Christian Zionists?
I experienced the surreal defenestration of my Congressman, Jamaal Bowman, by an AIPAC-backed candidate and I didn't see Christian Zionists involved at all (whereas George Latimer's AIPAC-backed campaign was inaugurated by a public letter signed by twenty-six rabbis). But I chalked that up to living in an area with a substantial Jewish life, and figured in a part of the country with different demographics, we would have seen Christian Zionist involvement. Demographically, Jews are a bit under 3% of the U.S. population, but in my area they are much higher, and I also think my area has a relative dearth of Evangelical Christians versus the nation at large.
It's easy for me to think of Jewish plutocrats who use immense leverage to further the "U.S.-Israel relationship": Miriam Adelson and her late husband, Bill Ackman, Sheryl Sandberg, the Kushner family are just the ones who pop into mind immediately. This recalls Ambassador Chas Freeman's encapsulation of the reason for ironclad U.S. support for Israel: "a powerful unregistered Lobby in the United States and the United Kingdom directed by the Israeli government and funded by native Jewish plutocrats." I've watched several of Freeman's public talks, and he always uses this phrase, "Jewish plutocrats," to describe the essential nature of the U.S. pro-Israel lobby, never mentioning a Christian element. It's similarly easy to think of Jewish public figures who use their media exposure and the power of their voices to further the cause of the "U.S.-Israel relationship": Alan Dershowitz, Dennis Prager, Tony Dokoupil, Dana Bash, and while I'm sure we could identify an evangelical T.V. pastor or two who propound Christian Zionism, they don't seem to have the same mass reach as these bona fide celebrities.
Perhaps David French is a Christian Zionist, being one of the few evangelicals in mainstream American life? I've never seen him profess Zionism from a theological perspective, but it's a reasonable inference. It's hard for me to consider Joe Biden to be a Christian Zionist, since the Roman Catholic Church clearly rejects Zionist theology. I've considered Biden to be more of a political Zionist who feels some affinity for Israeli colonial culture, saw a geopolitical upside to supporting Israel, and understood that his stance on the issue could further his political career.
But I'm not really seeing the Christian Zionists. If they don't materialize, I'll wonder if they aren't to a certain extent a construction used by Zionists to make their support for the "U.S.-Israel relationship" look less ethnocentric than it really is.
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u/Pitiful_Meringue_57 Jewish Oct 24 '24
look up CUFI, it’s the largest zionist org in the united states
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u/PlinyToTrajan Non-Jewish Ally (Jewish ancestry & relatives) Oct 24 '24
While I know CUFI exists and claims a huge membership, I never see it present where the rubber meets the road. What would be convincing for me is an example where CUFI took a major lobbying trip to Capitol Hill, or spent big on political advertising, or intervened in a Congressional race, or the like.
I watched Thomas Massie's interview on Tucker Carlson's show and Massie spoke at length about AIPAC and how each member of Congress has an "AIPAC babysitter." CUFI didn't even get a mention.
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u/Pitiful_Meringue_57 Jewish Oct 24 '24
CUFI and AIPAC are not rly comparable. CUFI isnt rly a financial lobbying group, its a massive pro israel organization that works to push pro israel ideology in christian spaces and their type of lobbying is much more abt making individual members send letters and bug congresspeople.
I find it weird that people have decided that AIPAC is jewish and cufi is christian. Cufi is christian obviously but AIPAC isn’t inherently jewish, they r perfectly capable and often do accept money from non jews.
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u/PlinyToTrajan Non-Jewish Ally (Jewish ancestry & relatives) Oct 24 '24
In These Times, Jun. 3, 2024, "The Corporate Power Brokers Behind AIPAC’s War on the Squad"
All major AIPAC donors identified by name in this article are Jewish. I perceive AIPAC as an entity predominantly powered by Jewish Zionism. Of course, they might have a non-Jewish member here or there, but it doesn't change the big picture.
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u/soonerfreak Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 24 '24
I assume you live in NYC based on which campgain you are talking about? The South is full of Christian Zionist at the mega churches. Their interpretation of Relevation requires a Jewish state of Israel to be invaded by enemies from the North. It is a very specific group of Christians but America has millions of them. Presbyterian tend to be on the better end of the political spectrum in response to your comment below and Catholics are basically told not to speculate about the end times.
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u/PlinyToTrajan Non-Jewish Ally (Jewish ancestry & relatives) Oct 24 '24
I live just north of NYC and the Congressional District is mostly suburban with a small part of the Bronx.
So if Israel gets invaded by Lebanese or Iranians, then the arrow of history is pointed in the right direction, but if it's invaded by Egyptians, no particular good comes of it?
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u/soonerfreak Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 24 '24
Well unless the end times were to start happening they would just argue to defend Israel for the real invasion no matter where it came from. The worst part is these zionist are supporting the horrors going on based on Nero fan fiction written well after the disciple John would have died.
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u/PlinyToTrajan Non-Jewish Ally (Jewish ancestry & relatives) Oct 24 '24
I agree, the more I've learned about Christian Zionism the less it has seemed to have any convincing basis in Christian scriptures.
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u/soonerfreak Jewish Anti-Zionist Oct 24 '24
I've gone down an academic rabbit hole consuming as much Dan McClellan content as I can. There is evidence to support that even when the canon was being established around 200-300 CE that Relevation barely made the cut and had detractors then. I wish I could recall the book Dan cited in one video but it goes over how American Evangelical Christianity has morphed into its own religion where politics come first and the Bible second.
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u/watrurthoughtsonyaoi Non-Jewish Ally Oct 23 '24
Yes, I've been thinking about this lately as well. I'm starting to think Christian Zionists are a bit of a red herring. Evangelical Christian theology does support the existence of a Jewish state in Israel, but no evangelical group seems to treat this as a driving, urgent concern besides tiny fringe movements like so-called Messianic Jews.
On a practical level, I don't see any difference between evangelical Christian and establishment liberal support of Israel. They both seem primarily driven by allegiance to American imperial interests and the anti-Arab racism that results from such. The most I can say is that progressive liberals are more likely to reject American imperialism and move left versus conservatives, and that's the only notable correlation.
If anything, the antisemitism inherent in Christianity tempers any full-throated support of Israel that evangelicals might want to express.
If idk, the genocide results in a massive influx of refugees from Palestine, or like direct retaliation against Americans on American soil, I can see evangelicals becoming more fervent. But short of that, they have more pressing things to fight for, like criminalizing abortion and persecuting LGBT people and denying vaccines etc etc
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u/PlinyToTrajan Non-Jewish Ally (Jewish ancestry & relatives) Oct 24 '24
I would not even assume all evangelical Christians buy into the Christian Zionist theology. It's rejected by Roman Catholicism and all seven mainline Protestant denominations. Among people who are seriously exposed to theology, it's almost a fringe theory. I do think rank-and-file adherents of different Christian denominations buy into it reflexively without really understanding it. And I do think its core base of support as a genuine, seriously-held theological doctrine is among evangelicals. But I wouldn't assume that it's uniform even among them.
Let's look for example at a recent program held by the Presbyterian Church USA. The Presbyterian Church USA is one of the "seven sisters of American Protestantism," i.e., the mainline Protestants:
"Confronting Christian Zionism: Presented by the PC(USA)’s Christian Zionism working group, which includes PC(USA) national staff from World Mission’s Middle East and Europe office, the Presbyterian Peacemaking Program, the Office of Public Witness, and members of the Israel/Palestine Mission Network, the 90-minute session discussed how the Zionism ideology contributes to the violence Palestinians have experienced and the consequences of the settler colonial experience."
So that's how one mainline Protestant denomination is viewing the issue, just as a taste of American Christian sentiment on the subject.
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u/TendieRetard Non-Jewish Ally Oct 26 '24
It's not an uncommon talking point amongst Baptist & Pentecostals. I think a surprising number of Christians don't know what Zionism is and grew up thinking it's just a slur for "jew".
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u/TendieRetard Non-Jewish Ally Oct 26 '24
I've seen plenty of Hasbara attempting to downplay the impact/leverage of AIPAC by pointing to other lobby groups. This may be an extension of it.
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u/RowenMhmd Non-Jewish Ally (Sikh) Oct 24 '24 edited Oct 24 '24
Have you ever been able to convince a relative to oppose what Israel's doing? How did you manage to do it?
I want to ask this because my grandmother is an ardently pro-Israel person, mostly because she has friends from there, has been there and liked it, and has mild bad blood w/Muslims over the Partition. I find it sad and a bit odd given her general humanitarian concern and even she was disgusted seeing the videos out of Gaza but still remains pro-Israel and stuff, I want to know how I can convince her that what she thinks is the 'good side' isn't right.