r/JewsOfConscience Jew of Color Jun 29 '24

Activism NYC Dyke March Drama

The NYC Dyke March is being boycotted by many other organizations including Act Up NYC for putting out and subsequently deleting this statement. Thoughts?

Imma be real I don't really think this statement is bad at all, but I understand that others have read it as "all lives matter"-ing the genocide in Gaza. Would love to hear more takes.

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11

u/Specialist-Gur Ashkenazi Jun 29 '24

I strongly disagree that this is bad… really

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u/PossibleDeer4613 Jun 30 '24

Same.

According to the whitehouse.gov: The United States has recently experienced an alarming increase in antisemitic incidents, among other acts of hatred. American Jews account for 2.4% of the U.S. population, but they are the victims of 63% of reported religiously motivated hate crimes, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).

Why are jews on this thread acting like its anti-palestine to acknowledge antisemitism.

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u/farbissina_punim Jewish Jun 30 '24

I don't see Jewish people in this thread saying that at all.

Things that are antisemitic: scores of Costco khaki-ed neo-Naz*s chanting "Jews will not replace us"; people being gunned down in synagogues in Pennsylvania; talking publicly about your "Jew lawyer"; RFK, Jr. loudly and proudly claiming that Jewish people are immune to Covid-19, slamming a Jewish college professor to the ground who is just trying to protect her students at a pro-Palestine rally.

Things that aren't antisemitic: Anti-Israel sentiments, Palestinian people existing, and calling what's happening in Palestine a genocide.

Conservatives, Republicans and many Democrats only let us talk about antisemitism when it's at the expense of Palestinian people. Otherwise, we're not a priority. They don't really care about us otherwise.

We can't scream about October 7th every time someone mentions thousands of dead Palestinian people. We need to curb that impulse. When someone tells me their mom has been diagnosed with cancer, it's not my moment to interrupt and yell, "WELL MY MOM DIED OF CANCER!" Palestinian grief is not an invitation to detour the conversation into discussions about October 7th and the Holocaust.

Jewish people centering themselves in these conversations is repulsive and it doesn't endear us to anyone.

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u/PossibleDeer4613 Jun 30 '24 edited Jun 30 '24

I don’t disagree with anything you are saying. There is also a huge swath of rhetoric from nonjewish leftists that is getting veeeery scary. And I don’t think its okay to say well I am a jew who opposes genocide so therefore I’m going to ignore antisemitism against bad jews because its not coming at me. We’ve seen that before. Also many non- jews emboldened that they can never be antisemitic because jews have said criticizing Israel isnt antisemitic and be against genocide isnt antisemitic and they are marching alongside jewish friends and therefore can say whatever, WHATEVER, with impunity. Asserting jews control the media and politics is still antisemitic. I have seen so many people straight up holocaust deny or say everyone in israel should be killed, just say horrific things. The leftist comment threads and the super jew hating conspiracy theory threads are becoming the same thread. And it IS scary and I think there needs to be more room for talking about it without calling it centering ourselves. Especially on a subreddit for jews. The stakes for a mass movement towards our dehumanization are high. And if I have to prove my goodness to fellow antizionist jews as I seem to need to all non-jews to talk about antisemitism… where are we?

1

u/Specialist-Gur Ashkenazi Jun 30 '24

Well, even though I agree that antisemtism is a problem and I don’t agree this post is bad.. it’s complicated.

The level of antisemitic incidents is complex.. 1. Jews are more likely to report to police than other groups such as Muslims. 2. The definition of antisemtism is incredibly loosey goosey.. which I take major issue with

The other thing is.. as others laid out, not all the victims on October 7th were Jewish. And most Zionists aren’t Jewish. I think the critical piece here is that isrsel/palestine really isn’t a Jewish issue.. and making it one is frustrating. And I agree with that. This post just plays into the idea that anti Israel messaging is scary for Jews.

However. Jewish people are terrified and are afraid.. and do feel uncomfortable with anti Israel messaging… therefore I see nothing wrong with a message acknowledging this and welcoming Jews specifically and also letting them know there is room for empathy for them while supporting Palestinians.

It’s a complex issue. I think the Jewish who are uncomfortable at queer events because of the support for Palestine need to self reflect. But at the same time, I see nothing wrong with the events trying to meet them where they are at

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u/PossibleDeer4613 Jun 30 '24

Ah I misunderstood you.

Can you elaborate what you mean by most Zionists aren’t Jewish?

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u/Specialist-Gur Ashkenazi Jun 30 '24

Most Zionists in America are Christians by far. Also the definition of “Zionists” are so broad.. there are Jewish people who call themselves Zionist who want a 1ss and just think that Zionism means Jewish self determination. These people are misinformed but I think that adds a layer of fuzziness to the analysis of how many Zionists are Jews and how many Jews are Zionist

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u/PossibleDeer4613 Jun 30 '24

I see. Yes- Zionists and Anti-Zionist define zionism differently. By both self-definitions I am an anti-zionist zionist 🫠. I actually think that the word Zionism being an amorphous thing is a huge part of the vitriol- there are a lot of people in the middle who dont know they basically agree on 60-70% of things but are labeling themselves differently, and then making assumptions about “the other side”.

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u/Specialist-Gur Ashkenazi Jul 01 '24

Oh I totally agree with you. I feel like I’m not being clear in most of my comments on this thread and it’s rubbing people the wrong way.. but I also am totally against Zionism and do not agree it’s an amorphous thing. I just think that there are Jewish people that are less politically informed at the moment but probably would get to where we are too