When Micah was picked up by Pinkertons

[u/ImAgIrAfFe72]

This may seem a bit far fetched so strap in guys, it’s a weird one. (Excuse the rubbish format, I’m on mobile.)

So, we know Micah was picked up by the Pinkertons right after Guarma, yeah? And as you don’t retrieve your horse until a little bit later, you can steal one. Now to me, it seems the player is directed to a specific horse hitched outside the bar (is it Annesburg or Van Horn? I can’t remember) and that horse is a tobiano Hungarian Half-Bred.

However, during the Chapter Two mission ‘The Sheep and the Goats’, you can see a Pinkerton agent next to Cornwall, saddled on a tobiano Hungarian Half-Bred. This horse is pretty hard to find unless you’re extremely lucky and find one at a camp or nab one off a bounty hunter, so we know they’re not super common and are kind of exclusive to these characters, right?

SO, my line of thought is, an agent could’ve been inside the town’s bar and that’s where Micah was grabbed- maybe the horse you can steal is a Pinkerton’s and that’s why you don’t lose honour for taking it as you would by stealing an ‘innocent’s’; also, Micah takes a while compared to others to reach Lakay, but I realise this could be down to not knowing where the gang was holed up at the time and I’m just grasping at straws or something.

I feel like this isn’t just a random coincidence because, y’know, it’s Rockstar and I thought it would be a pretty neat thing, like a red herring, maybe?

But, thanks for coming to my Ted Talk, please tell me your thoughts!

[u/Tron_1981]

Given the way that he came at both Arthur and John about being potential rats, I would confidently assume that he was projecting to deflect any possible guess of him being the rat. And I don't think that Agent Milton had any reason to lie to Arthur, as he thought he had Arthur caught or dead in that moment.

[u/titanlmao → u/Tron_1981]

Okay so this is the thing. Throughout the whole game micah had bragged about his horrible acts, killing people, raping, etc. He even mocked other gang members and was straight up racist to their face, like with Javier so I doubt he cares about what they think of him. Of course he wouldn't just outright admit it in front of the gang, but the fact that he still denied it when alone with Arthur at the end, seems kinda out character. Micah had bragged before constantly about shit he did. But he didnt brag and mock Arthur at the end for literally destroying his life?

[u/andrecinno → u/titanlmao]

Everyone who says Micah isn't the rat is ignoring the fact that Jim straight up says it.

When he thinks he's gonna kill everyone in that room. 0 danger for him.

[u/titanlmao → u/andrecinno]

this is 9 days old dude. and again, all people say "oh jim said so and he wasnt gonna die" ignoring they did the same to john. a deal, he couldve struck a deal. like with john

[u/andrecinno → u/titanlmao]

9 days old apparently is where a discussion cuts off lol

[u/titanlmao → u/andrecinno]

no its just old as fuck and i dont want people replying to me a week and a half later to argue about something i already told to like 4 other people.

[u/andrecinno → u/titanlmao]

Did he even deny being the rat, though?

Didn't he just deflect by saying "I'm a survivor!"?

[u/titanlmao → u/andrecinno]

He didn't confirm or deny it. Many people use the survivor as micah excusing himself, but again, this is the same man who bragged about raping, killing, molesting, and robbing, so I doubt that he has that much guilt or conscience.

[u/andrecinno → u/titanlmao]

Eh, I still don't think it's a good theory, but sure.

[u/[deleted] → u/titanlmao]

True, but in the criminal world beeing labeled as a rat is like a death sentence. So the things you sayd he bragged about killing raping etc. are things he considers acomplishments but admit beeing a rat and it's over. I also think micah expected dutch might be close and didn't want him to hear it bc he still wanted that Blackwater money and needed dutch

[u/titanlmao → u/[deleted]]

This is 1899, back then it was completely different, and plus, its not like anyone can just search your name up and find out everything about you. Half the gang knew absolutely nothing about Micah before he joined, and we still don't know anything about him apart that he was a criminal with his dad

[u/[deleted] → u/titanlmao]

The code of never rating was a unspoken rule even back then at least in the gang world. We dont know much yeah. Someone said he might be a pinkerton agent that was placed in that bar where he safed dutch. Did you notice the unpleased look in miltons face when he found micahs body?

[u/titanlmao → u/[deleted]]

Again, can you show that people back then thought the same way? And I dont think hes a Pinkerton agent, I dont think so considering his story goes all the way back to 1878 or so when he was 13 and was already killing people with his father, thats the earliest mention of Micah we have. So unless the Pinkerton were willing to use an insane, homicidal, maniac, I dint think he was. And here's the thing, I believe Micah was innocent of snitching. I believe milton told Arthur Micah was the rat so he would go kill micah, and that he told Micah that Arthur was the rat, so he would go kill Arthur. Now I know "wHY woUlD milTon Lie TO aRTHur, He HAd a GUn TO ArTHurs heAd" well, think of Arthur or Micah as the original John. A former gang members they were gonna use to kill the remaining gang members, why? Well milton already saw that both Micah and Arthur killed his men, over and over and over again, so why not use the strongest gang members, put them against each other, and use the survivor to kill the remaining gang members. And thats why I believe Ross had an unpleased face when he found Micah body, because he just lost his original John, the man who they would use to kill the remaining gang members, so now they had to find a new guy. They hunted down the man who killed Micah, since they needed someone of Micah level, and hunted down John, which then kickstarted rdr1

[u/[deleted] → u/titanlmao]

You dont need to go with this big letter small letter i was talking normal to you. Can i show that? No i cant but i can also not show that they would say working with O'driscolls is a no go but i'm pretty sure most will agree with me on that (maybe you too?) You believe milton told arthur that micah was the snitch to start a war. Let me tell you why this is unlikely. This would mean milton expected arthur to kill him and go back to the gang so he was like"this is my last revenge". No he thought he would kill/arrest arthur so he wouldn't be able to tell anybody what milton sayd. Then in the end you say micah was the original john and send to kill the gang. That is a traitor. Can you show that the pinkertons thought that way? 😉 We feel different thats ok. I wonder if we can continue this discussion in a respectfull way

Edit: i dont think micah is a pinkerton agent. But he is a rat remember micah had dutchs poster in his camp in montos rest in chapter 2 also a newspaper mentions the train job with charles sean john and says the cops were told about it

[u/titanlmao → u/[deleted]]

Oh sorry if it seemed disrespectful or as if I was talking down to you man, wasn't my intention. And I think that Pinkerton mightve thought that way considering they only focused on John after Micah died, and then they end up using him to kill the remaining gang members, it seems as if they used John instead because he would be the only one willing to, well the only one willing to after Micah died. And when I said that he told Arthur that Micah was the rat to start a fight, i mostly meant a death match, which is exactly what happened towards the end. And tbh, i believe Micah was a rat, but not to the extent that Milton made him out to be

[u/[deleted] → u/titanlmao]

Ok cool i got you wrong then. I also can say look how the gang threated molly susan literally said:"she knew the rules!" That shows what the label rat meant. But Milton wanting to start a Deathmatch would mean he expected Arthur to kill him and get away but when Milton told Arthur that Micah rated, Milton tought Arthur would never reach the gang again you know? I agree on John i bet they first aproached him in sissika like:"let's trade info against priviliges!" I think he refused but the thought was placed in his head and in the end it worked

[u/titanlmao → u/[deleted]]

Okay so here's the thing about the deathmatch, milton didnt expect Arthur to win or lose, he just wanted one of them dead, and the survivor would be used by the Pinkerton to kill the rest of the gang. Which was originally Micah, but after John killed him, they ended up using John instead.and there's also the fact that there might be another rat, considering that the bank heist was snitched on by someone that wasn't Micah

[u/[deleted] → u/titanlmao]

I know what you mean. I mean Milton did not expect Arthur to get out of that room in van horn where he told him about the rat and where he held abigail hostage i think you missunderstood me i get the Intention with the deathmatch. Yeah a second rat i think if there was one it was either abigail or pearson. Abigail wanted out after jack got kidnapped that feeling grew stronger. How she got away but Hosea got captured would have been my first question to her. Maybe john got arrested in st.denis as part of a deal abigail had. Notice how she begs john not to hunt micah down. This might have been bc she was scared that john(even though he's not the smartest) would find out that there was more to this rat thing. Pearson was strange when you visit his store he asks you about jack and abigail but with a tone that gave me goosebumbs. Iirc you can see Ross in the credits how he asked pearson out. Of course the gang photo is also not helping. I also wonder why he was allowed to buy a store with his real name. John made the biggest mistake buying a ranch next to blackwater using his real name. What do you think about that?

[u/sethdrak33 → u/titanlmao]

Nah dude. Micah saying "I'm a survivor!" was him saying without saying that he's a rat. He's basically saying "I'm not a rat I do what I need to do to survive, even if it kills other people". That's 100% Micahs shady ass way of beating around the bush but still admitting to it. 100% a Micah move.

Also if you ask me Micah didn't effect arthur at all. Micahs actions negativity effected the gang as a whole and killed some but in the end arthur fully succeed in his plans and Micah couldn't stop him no matter how hard he tried. Which is why he gave up in the end. He could've walked away with Micah and Dutch but the sickness was to much and he let it take over. After all the Pinkertons were after Dutch and said multiple times they didn't care for the rest but would use them to get to Dutch since Dutch was the one telling them what to do and to steal from Cornwall. Micah didn't care either way because all he really wanted was to get rich and not die.