Meh. I've heard just about enough of this "one bad debate" bullshit. I voted for him in 2020, and in the primary. I'll vote for him again if he's the one on the ballot in November. But that was an absolute trainwreck, and it was not a one-off. He's been like that before, he'll be like that again, and I don't appreciate anyone trying to tell us that it's not significant
Things have changed. Iāve talked to a few friends that donāt follow politics at all, but voted Biden in 2020. They still wonāt vote Trump, but they arenāt voting for Biden this time. Those are the people in the swing states that matter. If they are undecided still, they apparently donāt know all the bad about Trump. They do know that prices are high, and Biden can barely fucking talk. Thatās enough to stop them from supporting him.
If only there was something the democrats could do between now and November to satisfy those voters, which could also incidentally help stop a genocide.
Is there though? Anything they can do without losing even more votes that are even more valuable? (because the pro-Israel side is actually liable to voting for Trump if Biden messes with them, instead of merely withholding their vote at worst; nobody pro-Palestine with a single working braincell is going to vote for Trump -- and they shouldn't refuse to vote for Biden, either, considering that's effectively half a vote for someone who's infinitely worse in every way even if all you care about is Palestine... but hey, dumb people are gonna be dumb)
The people that act like Biden or the country could do something to stop Israel are not living in reality. If they had their way weād be in another war, one that could easily lead to worldwide mass casualties.
I don't get why you're being downvoted. Those were protest votes. If people really cared about Gaza, do they think Trump is going to do better? Trump will send as much military (non-troop) aid to Israel as possible so Israel can finish it quickly.
i donāt know either. the anti-biden hoard is very powerful on reddit. itās funny because when you actually interact with real humans they donāt care nearly as much as redditors and the media lol
youāre completely right by the way. i know someone who is extremely pro palestine and hates how biden has responded but sheās still voting for biden because trump wants to fucking raze gaza lmao
Kamala Harris who is next in line both as VP and obvious replacement choice has been way better and more forceful in calling Israel out then Biden who's been manipulated and humiliated by Bibi for months now.
Biden's debate performance was disastrous, he looked like a literally dying hospice care patient, so confused and disoriented, he had to be saved from further embarrassment by the host
Polling data leaked from his own campaign shows literally any Democrat would outperform him against Trump
Biden has a degenerative, Parkinsonian neurological disease, dozens of neurologists, most of them Democrats, are speaking out or contacting their colleagues with media connections, they say Biden's decline is frightening
Biden will lose the election, clearing the way for project 2025 to annihilate democracy, destroy NATO and surrendering Ukraine to Putin
Not only is running Biden a losing proposition, it's both utterly irresponsible to force Biden to do 4 more years of this and it's blatant elder abuse at this point
The gaslighting and denial surrounding Biden's shocking decline rivals that of the worst excesses of the MAGA cult
Biden just called Zelensky "Putin" and Harris "VP Trump", anybody still on board with this is out of their mind
Beating Trump is the priority, and that requires voter turnout and the independent vote, both of which Biden just lost
Biden's ego, his legacy or the superficial pride of his supporters are completely irrelevant
Your alternative is literal fascism. Not a single person is excites about Biden. Choosing not to vote is just giving power to Trump because his voters will vote no fucking matter what. Refusing to vote because Biden is old and shitty gives just as old and shittier as the option available. Its just incredibly foolish and ignorant. At least with Biden you can expect the cabinet running things to be remotelt qualified for the job.
I dont see any candidate doing better than Biden (this election), but then again I'm not american so there may be some alternatives I'm not aware of.
Yes, but also those are your choices. Not voting is giving power to the shittier of your options. And if you want to look at the issues at hand, then your whole political system is a problem, not just your current candidates.
No they're fucking not. The right choice is to replace Biden.
I addressed all of it in the previous comment. Literally. Go back to it and read it again.
This is literally batshit fucking insane. This can NOT continue.
So stop blaming us and start blaming the Biden team and the White House physician for deliberately keeping this under wraps. They caused this situation and I refuse to be blamed or guilt-tripped for it.
Even Obama and Pelosi are now weighing their options.
You literally have no idea what you're talking about.
If this continues, it will only get worse, then this election is LOST.
You yourself said it:
Not a single person is excited about Biden
This means you lose the election. Do you finally understand this?
You are not talking about me here, you are talking about the dimwits who vote in general. You are talking about oblivious imbeciles in the middle and the people who hesitate to vote at all.
Someone who will speak so boldly about the truth hurting but then if Biden loses they'll be SHOCKED.
The point is, Biden didn't even have to stand up to a contested primary this go-around and now you all are just telling us that it's everyone else's fault if he loses.
Zero shock if he loses. Im not american so I 1) wont be affected to any big degree either way, and 2) The US is in no way capable of shocking me with anything politics. It's already so far beyond batshit it's more like watching a soap opera than actual real politics. Politcians where I live lose their jobs for less than the normal day to day drama in US politics.
Not voting because the candidate is questionable is moronic, when the alternative is just as questionable, old and demented but also with fascist tendencies. A different candidate would probably be the best, but if thats not an option avaible then you vote for the least shitty one. This is basically just the whole "the left cant unite unless the choice is perfect" schtick.
Perhaps they are, but you still need morons to vote in order to win.
If the democrats run someone that most people aren't excited to vote for, it's very likely they won't win the presidency. It doesn't matter how many times you say "Trump is terrible!".
I personally believe that running Biden or even Harris will result in losing.
They are politically ignorant. I think most people are and we shouldnāt forget that. Switching to a candidate with a pulse is worth trying at this point. If we stick with Biden, he bombs the shit out of the next debate and itās pretty much over. Anyone younger and competent has so much ammo to use on Trump in a debate. Biden couldnāt get the words out half the time. When he was able to make a coherent point, he made it with the forcefulness of a house fly. His throat doesnāt work anymore.
Trump has a pulse? Heās obese and canāt walk ten steps. His face looks like itās melting. Heās a felon and a child rapist. If you think thatās a good candidate, you have another thing coming, maga.
Nobody said that Trump had a pulse. Also, as much as I detest trump, what happened to innocent until proven guilty about being a rapist?
Also, when did they say they were MAGA? Reading comprehension isnāt a strong suit of yours.
Read the earlier comment, maga. He claimed that switching to someone with a pulse was attractive. Felon trump isnāt a viable candidate. Also he is an adjudicated rapist. So you arenāt paying attention and you canāt read. You have that maga stink all over you.
That's the biggest problem I think, like the debate was a disaster for sure but both of them were bad. Biden had trouble speaking and seemed disoriented but also Trump was just making shit up. The thing is if you don't follow politics you won't know if someone is lying about it if there's no real-time fact checking but the stuttering and staring of into space is something everyone will notice.
At some point presentation is more important than actual accomplishments and Biden fucking sucks at presentation
Youāre inured to Dumpās constant lying and FuckFoolery. Thatās a you problem. People need to start giving a fuck that heās always fucking lying. It matters!
People need to start giving a fuck that heās always fucking lying. It matters!
They definitely should but some just won't, some won't even know he is lying cause they won't bother looking it up. Is that irresponsible? Yeah sure but those people still vote so we can't very well just say "fuck them"
That's why it's so important to call out the lies especially during a debate but that just didn't happen
Of course it matters that Trump is lying but itās not a me problem itās an us (actually itās a US) problem. Biden is losing to a piece of shit rapey liar. Which is the point of all of this. If we want Trump to lose, we need a candidate who can beat him.
And! Run circles around him from a professional standpoint.
And, hired an excellent cabinet that has and still does work hard to serve this country. Theyāll continue to do so.
It is an unfortunate reality that presentation matters. I hate Trump but he looked better during the debate by a mile. People are not smart and there is no intelligence test to vote.
Biden is going to lose not because of anything substantive but because of things that should not matter but DO MATTER IN REALITY.
Saying nO fUcK tHaT and having a tantrum is not going to change the voters that we have to convince. We can't just call them stupid and expect it to change their minds.
Voting for Trump and not voting for Biden are the exact same thing in this shitty election. Don't let anyone try to convince you of anything different. It doesn't matter how "bad" Biden gets, we're voting for his administration and the death of Project 2025. Those idiots wanting to "protest Biden" for stupid reasons are just as much of a threat to our country as the MAGAts are.
That's just not true though. Unless you live in a swing state, your presidential vote is irrelevant. If I were in one, I would vote for Biden but I'm not and I don't think he or the Democratic party has done enough to win my meaningless vote, so I'm going to vote third party in the hopes that one day maybe we can get out of this 2 party hell that we're trapped in, even though I know that's incredibly unlikely
This is a terrible take. If you and thousands of others think the same way, Biden may actually lose "guaranteed" areas. We don't have ranked choice voting or any other good system, it's just crappy old first-past-the-post. You are throwing your vote away for a relatively minor tantrum.
Look, I get it, Biden sucks, but the administration he has and the people we will choose that actually do things are what you're really voting for. That choose part is important, we're looking at two possible Scrotus retirements in the next four years. Don't let our country fall apart to a cabinet full of right wing cronies because you think your righteous whining means something.
Buddy, I live in Louisiana. He ain't winning here. And I understand how the office of president works. I'm not a big fan of the Biden administration. It's way closer to what I would want than a Trump one, but they are not entitled to my vote simply because of that fact. To reiterate: if my vote mattered at all I would vote for him. But it doesn't and I won't. You can think it's righteous whining, I think it's using my voice as a citizen in a way to best achieve what I want for my country
Okay but what are my options? Don't vote? Cast a meaningless vote for a party I don't really support so that if they lose they can point to the number of votes as some form of mandate?
I choose to voice my displeasure with my vote. It's not like it has any real sway on the outcome. This way I'm at least letting the Dems know they are not entitled to my vote. Maybe it's pointless, but so are all the other options so I might as well go with the one closest to my convictions
In this ridiculous system, you're not supposed to actually vote for what you want, you figure out which of the TWO options you don't want and then vote the other one. No third party is ever going to win in the US, it's fruitless to try. Demand a better voting system, like ranked choice. Send letters. Rally your friends and coworkers. You're supposed to actually try to get your message out long before the election. Doing nothing and then voting for a nobody is worthless.
We say every vote matters not because of whether one single vote counts in a large election, but because hundreds of thousands of votes like yours that would otherwise be wasted does matter if you all actually realize the consequences of throwing your vote away. One person jumping up and down on the stands of a stadium is nothing, but the entire crowd jumping up and down in unison will cause catastrophic damage. Lots of people will vote the way you are, and then all of you will regret it.
If you have two options and it's difficult to choose, try the coin trick. Assign heads/tails, flip the coin, but don't immediately reveal it. Think about it. In that moment, as the coin was spinning, which result were you dreading? When the evening of Tuesday, November 5th comes around, what are you afraid will happen? Is your "message" going to be worth the wrong outcome? It's not the party's fault for not living up to your expectations, it's your fault, as the voter, their constituent, for not properly communicating.
Well I told them that, though Iām not confident it had any effect. The bright side of my specific situation is I live in a blue part of a solid red state, so their vote is incredibly unlikely to matter.
Gotcha. I get why people are pissed at the DNC. I wish there were an easier way to start voting for a third party or independent candidates, maybe in local elections.
That's the point. Our democrat leaders have abandoned us. Now they want him to step down? And replace him with whom? In 4 months, you expect that replacement to garner the majority vote..for what? How? Why? Either scenario guarantees a Trump Reelection. Either the new candidate can't garner support in time or many vote independent, which is a wasted vote in this context. It's over; this country, as you know it, is gone forever.
I still believe enough people are prepared to vote against Trump. Just need a little more inspiring candidate than guy who canāt fully open his eyes or clear his throat.
The situation is dire though either way. I just think Biden has already pretty much lost this one. Time to try someone else. Itās risky but I think itās a better shot at this point.
Iām as annoyed with the democrat politicians as you though. Got a million things to attack Trump over and they canāt message shit. The best attack ads come from never Trump republicans.
Iām aware of the causes of inflation and the ills of late stage capitalism. Undecided voters in swing states arenāt. For them, groceries high = bad president.
Also, he canāt really talk. Sounds like heās sick even when heās not calling the president of Ukraine Putin and his VP Trump. Even when you have a point in the debate it doesnāt matter if youāre always raspy, stammering, and trailing off.
I follow politics and I feel the same way your friends do. I wonāt vote Trump but it doesnāt mean I will vote Biden either. At this point I feel Joeās ego is getting in the way of his service to the country, and Iāll shop a different candidate before I jump on the Ego Express.
In that job, heās run circles around Dump, even though heās older. More than that! He has a solid, intelligent, diverse, and capable cabinet that has served this country and will continue to serve, providing. STABILITY in a globally unstable time.
Itās not a vote for an old man OR a child rapist. Itās MORE a vote for who and what they bring to the table.
Sadly, due to how US elections work, not voting for Biden but some superior alternative is helping Trump; unless everyone can agree to vote for the same alternative.
Feel free. Or instead, let your displeasure be known and see if we can get a candidate that can actually win this thing. Cuz right now, Joe aināt it.
In that job, heās run circles around Dump, even though heās older. More than that! He has a solid, intelligent, diverse, and capable cabinet that has served this country and will continue to serve, providing. STABILITY in a globally unstable time.
Itās not a vote for an old man OR a child rapist. Itās MORE a vote for who and what they bring to the table.
Well if he doesnāt win we can all sleep just fine knowing he did the goodest job he could. And knowing he had a better cabinet as well.
He has to get re-elected, or rather, Trump needs to not be elected in order to avoid a shitty trump cabinet. Iām just trying to find a candidate who can do it.
So youāre okay with fascism potentially happening in our country? Because thatās the threat that Trump poses, and choosing not to vote is as good as voting for him
Wanting a guy who canāt beat Trump to stay in the election is also just as good as voting for Trump. Biden is behind in the polls, is losing support of democrats by the day, and staunchly refusing to accept that heās losing the election.
He obviously wonāt beat Trump in a debate in his current state. And he doesnāt seem to be putting another winning plan into place. If we are all supposed to be so concerned about the threat to democracy, letās put up a candidate that can mop the floor with trump. Because he should be highly beatable, and at the moment he isnāt.
Sure, the fact that so many people are voting for a convicted felon and child rapist is simply insane. Whatever. We established that 8 years ago today.
But after one unthinkable loss and one near-loss, this party still cannot get it through their fucking heads that saying "FUCK YOU, VOTE NOW, YOU'RE AN IDIOT IF YOU DON'T VOTE BLUE"
does not fucking work
We won the 2020 election completely in spite of how terrible Biden's campaign was.
And now, in 2024, Biden's mind is slipping and die-hard Biden fans are INSISTING he's actually the perfect candidate.
When he fucking is not.
And if we don't accept that, if we don't start trying to CONVINCE people to vote for Biden instead of LECTURING them, we are going to fucking lose.
Very on point comment. Democrats have always had a marketing problem. They canāt name shit. Republicans can. And they are good at it. Affordable Care Act? Nah, Obamacare! Estate tax? Nah, Death Tax! Anti abortion? Nah Pro-Life.
As a moderate Republican in a swing state who is actually willing to vote for a democrat, youāre speaking my language on packaging a bad candidate with a wrapping of āFuck you! If youāre not with us, youāre against usā.
Iām still not clear what part of my comments are supposedly full of shit, but hey itās Reddit, and Iām usually in the right more than I am in the wrong. š¤·š»āāļø
If you donāt like this take, maybe youād prefer my takes on insurance or sports.
Oh shut up, the man was already president for four years and implemented zero fascist laws or regulations. He also left, so there goes the āDeMoCRacy is on THE ticKEtā gaslighting as well. The sky is in fact not falling. Biden is lost in his own head. What we donāt want is unelected people ie his handlers running the country or even worse Biden himself
Wave money in his face and he will murder everyone in Palestine with his bare hands, fuck little girls in the streets. Anything for money and power.
If he wasnāt, heād have hired smart people to begin with and let them run the government and take all the credit. But he had to be out there, stealing from the tax payers right out front and flapping his shit smelling mouth every day. If heād have been quiet, he couldāve stayed king. No doubt.
It is however ironic that Trump makes much, MUCH bigger gaffes than Biden and people simply do not care...
I think I care less in a day-to-day way because I've already made my mind up about the guy: he's an amoral idiot and needs to be stopped at all costs. It's the driving force of most of my concern that Biden might not be the most reliable choice for the job.
Things have changed, his gaffes have progressively gotten worse since the last election, to the point where it seems extremely unlikely that he can govern for four more years if this pattern continues. He's a much different candidate now than he was in 2020.
Trump's gaffes are not nearly as prominent yet, and anyone who implies that they are gaffing equally loses all credibility from rational people. Why lie to yourself? Trump has plenty of flaws, I'm not sure why people have to make up new ones.
LOL. Perhaps you should actually listen to Trumps speeches. They are ramblings where he gets off track, makes silly claims about history and his own family and uses the wrong names for people all the time. He really is worse than Biden.
But again; I agree that neither is a good choice. I am just baffled by the dishonesty of people like you.
Yes. Did you read what I wrote?
Trump messes speeches up way, WAY worse than Biden does.
While in an ideal world I would prefer neither to be a serious candidate, the double standard people are applying is.. insane.
The problem is it's nothing new from Trump, we've been watching him more or less act this way for the past 9 years. But for a lot of people they're only now realizing how bad Biden's condition is.
First off let me say that yeah Iād also rather just have two completely different candidates
But my man I donāt recall trump ever calling the president of Ukraine Putin and calling his vice president Biden. Like come on if it were once or twice sure, but at this point itās every single time he gets up on stage.
Trump lies about shit for sure, and thatās a huge issue, but his mental capacity is still in line with what Iād expect for most without an underlying condition. But man Biden lies slightly less and is showing signs of cognitive decline that Iāve seen in patients Iāve treated with mild-moderate dementia. I donāt know any other way to say this but he just plain isnāt fit to be president.
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u/guyincognito121 Jul 12 '24
Meh. I've heard just about enough of this "one bad debate" bullshit. I voted for him in 2020, and in the primary. I'll vote for him again if he's the one on the ballot in November. But that was an absolute trainwreck, and it was not a one-off. He's been like that before, he'll be like that again, and I don't appreciate anyone trying to tell us that it's not significant