r/behindthebastards • u/jpotion88 • 1d ago

Considering this guy was not traditionally left leaning…

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From his online footprint it seems like Luigi did not meet the mold many would have expected of a left wing revolutionary. Also considering I have been seeing a lot of “the right looks for allies, the left looks for rats”, I created a new group r/ClassConscious . It’s supposed to be a thread where we can share ideas/memes with people of different political beliefs to continue to solidify the idea of class consciousness in the minds of people who might just be waking up to it. Once people realize that one kind of oppression is wrong, they might realize that other types are wrong too (or at least that’s the idea). I can’t think of a better page to ask for help than the BtB audience. Being around here a while it seems like most people take a rational approach to the problems we face. I am not a content creator or very witty, or all that good at knowing what will grab people’s attention. So I ask you all to help me, with posting and bringing attention to the staggering wealth gap that has developed in our societies. It’s not something that matters just to the left… between Luigi and the elons bullshit, I think this has a fighting chance.

Please post anything you think will appeal to those not normally thinking about r/ClassConscious (ness) in the same way.

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u/kumara_republic 1d ago

From Wikipedia article on Luigi Mangione:

The Spectator wrote that his worldview "wasn’t pinned to a standard left-right axis." Jacobin stated that he held "a hodgepodge of views and political beliefs that don’t neatly map onto any one category on the political spectrum".

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u/jpotion88 1d ago

Most people are a hodgepodge of views I believe. I kinda chuckle every time I hear people on the right say that the left wants to ban all guns. He saw an issue that is crippling the US, but that the people don’t really have much say in changing by democratic means. Not before we are all dead at least

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u/HelpfulNotUnhelpful 1d ago

Yep. You scoot back far enough, you can start to find common ground problems.

Example:

Left doesn’t want Christianity taught in public schools. Right doesn’t want LGBT normalized in schools. Everyone: doesn’t want schools indoctrinating their kids.

If we can agree on the big picture concern, we MAY be able to have a conversation. (Assuming good faith discussion is possible)

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u/31November 1d ago edited 1d ago

Even here, you equated forcing a religion on somebody with normalizing that some people are born LGBTQ+. These aren’t at all equivalent, and it’s not indoctrination to normalize that some people aren’t the same and that’s okay.

Edit: this commenter explained their position a bit better and it makes sense! See? We can have civilized conversations on Reddit :)

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u/kumara_republic 1d ago

Yep, people can't choose their sexual orientation or ethnicity, but they can choose which religion to pray to. Not buying the false equivalence.

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u/HelpfulNotUnhelpful 1d ago

Of course. I’m trying to point out the value of going back to a root concern (people in authority teaching my kid something I’m not comfortable with).

It’s ok and good to be concerned/aware/engaged in what your child is taught. We can agree on that. How we decide to extrapolate that can be very wrong.

I personally fight for LGBT inclusion in our school curriculum. And interact with people that disagree with me. I tend to start discussions with common ground so I can explain that we both love our kids. We both want them to feel both accepted and challenged in school. And from there I can share that I once had a teacher who happened to be Mormon, and they were sharing the story of Joseph smith with me, and my Presbyterian mom lost her shit.

Didn’t intend to sound like I thought both arguments were valid. They aren’t.

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u/Analyzer9 1d ago

Discussing common ground gets the liberals and conservatives to all worship the dollar. The only left I see at work in America is online.

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u/31November 1d ago

I see what you were going for, even if I disagree with how you phrased it. Thank you for clarifying! Have a nice day

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u/westgazer 1d ago

Okay but where does “teaching my kid something I am not comfortable with” end? Like, parent not comfortable with science, so kids don’t get to learn it? Parent not comfortable with evolution so kids have to learn YEC? Nah. Kids need to learn to accept others who are different and if parents are only going to raise a hateful bigot they gotta learn to be better somewhere.

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u/knitmeriffic 1d ago

This is a shit take. Queer kids having the opportunity to be safe at school isn’t indoctrination. It’s a human right.

Grifters demanding the opportunity to manipulate children into believing in some imaginary friend is the opposite of education.

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u/LemurCat04 1d ago

Except that not treating LGBTQ+ folks like they’re subhuman isn’t “indoctrination”. It’s just not being a shitbag.

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u/HelpfulNotUnhelpful 1d ago

Oh, I agree!

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u/thatwhileifound 1d ago edited 1d ago

It's funny - your example is the exact one I'd use in my argument towards the futility and wrongness of this.

What I mean is that, like, you boil them down to the same thing and I disagree entirely. One side doesn't want education that is fundamentally flavored and interwoven with religious beliefs. That is, you can teach about them where it is relevant and doing so is important! You can even teach about their beliefs, but you can't do it from a position that presupposes they're right or the only way and you can't just do it for one religion.

The other side wants to erase a large swath of people from existence. They want to hide queer people in history in ways that allows them to continue to maintain horseshit historic narratives and believe similarly horseshit historic norms that allow them to continue to justify their whole thing. They want to out kids who are figuring themselves out and make their lives hell because these fucks don't genuinely care about kids or humanity. They want to ensure queer kids have no resources or foundations to understand, process, or develop the differences they're gonna likely notice at some point.

Yes, not every individual espousing beliefs on that side are fully awakened and aware of the nature of their politics, but in my expedience - a fuck ton more of those people are functionally all the way in than most straight folks I talk to seem to understand.

All of that said, while I really don't believe we can talk our way out of this or meme our way or whatever because this problem is fundamentally systemic and a lot less about what individuals believe... If there's people you love who are falling down this way, I do encourage you to engage with them because having a close person do that is one of those things that can sometimes break the lock on their empathy enough to get them raising their hand out of the water for help.

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u/Striper_Cape 1d ago

The problem is that they have now equated teaching reality, real history and real science, with indoctrinating their kids. They are mad that their children are being taught that feeling and being different is okay. That climate change is real. That the US is a racist place and that's bad so we should change that. The Nationalist, Rich, "Christian" assholes have successfully captured a lot of media. The Liberal Media has been substantially weakened with Trump's victory and people don't usually look past the surface level. I have zero doubts people just heard Trump say "I'll fix everything" and they were sold. Anti-intellectualism looks like it won, for now.

I don't know how you fix that until something or everything goes wrong. I'm afraid it'll be too late by that point.

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u/ReturnOfJohnBrown 1d ago

Fuk the right. Don't care what they want.

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u/greaper007 1d ago

That's not really the same thing. Teaching Christianity in schools (with the exception of a cultural/historical context) is like teaching about flat earth theory.

Gay people on the other hand, actually appear to exist. I can call trans people on the telephone. Try doing that with Jesus.

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u/HelpfulNotUnhelpful 1d ago

Oof. This comment of mine really took a dive. Never ever would I imply these are the same thing. Like, it’s such a given to me, as I am a recovered evangelical with a gay daughter. I personally want all religious teaching out of schools, and think kids should be exposed to all the types of families and sexual orientations.

What I was (poorly) trying to get across is that if we dig back deep enough, we can often find common motivation with people we disagree with. Once we find that common motivation, we can start moving forward.

People come to shitty and horrible conclusions all the time, even with decent reasonable motivations. We’re animals in process of evolution. We’re going to do bad dumb shit. But we also have capacity to learn and grow. We can self reflect and challenge ourselves to align our beliefs and actions with our true core tenants.

So if we can find common ground, like, “we both agree parents should be aware of what their kids are learning in school”, we can then have dialogue about how to implement that in reality.