No it’s pretty Christian to dislike people because of religion, sexuality, and gender actually. Just read the Bible, it says all those horrible things and more. The only reason it’s not racist too is because race didn’t exist when it was written.
No he didn’t. He was totally fine with slavery, and his biggest followers were all openly homophobic. He may have had an egalitarian message when it comes to gender because of some versions of Paul’s letters, but it’s still debated if the egalitarian ones were the original ones or the changed ones. I lean more towards them being the originals, but even then women still had to follow all the Old Testament laws: even according to Jesus.
He was totally fine with slavery, and his biggest followers were all openly homophobic.
Its a common misconception due to how slave/servant was translated. But he definitely wasn't pro-slavery. His teachings may not have been explicitly anti-slavery, but nothing he said implied that he was perfectly fine with it either.
Jesus definitely wasn’t homophobic.
He may have had an egalitarian message when it comes to gender because of some versions of Paul’s letters, but it’s still debated if the egalitarian ones were the original ones or the changed ones.
You're talking about Paul, not Jesus. I feel it's important to remember that the New Testament was written by others and that Jesus wasn't even there for much of it. I can understand why you may come to the conclusion that Christianity promotes homophobia, but Jesus was pretty explicit about not being hateful. His disciples having different opinions is a big flaw in the whole religion, though. Big reason why I couldn't stick with that bs.
True, he didn't write any of it. I was trying to say that for much of the New Testament, Jesus was already gone and not physically there telling them what to write.
Pretty sure for all of the New Testament Jesus was already gone and not physically there telling the authors what to write, considering that the absolute oldest book (Galatians) was likely written a decade or so after the crucifixion/resurrection/ascent.
Paul was Jesus’ most important disciple and if you’re Christian you believe that Jesus directly talked to him several times through visions and picked him to deliver his message along with the apostles. Do you think Jesus would’ve picked a homophobe if he thought being pro-lgbt was important? Remember, at this time gay people, at least gay men, were a normal part of society: he could’ve spread his message and not have been anti-gay.
Paul, Peter, John, and his various disciples were handpicked to spread his message, I think any of their views are very likely to have been what Jesus believed too or else he’d have picked someone else.
Paul wasn't Jesus' "most important disciple". Paul never even met Jesus, and spent most of his life killing Jesus' followers. If you deny that sentence, you deny both the words of the Bible and the history of the church.
Then, after his "miraculous conversion" on the Road to Damascus, he suddenly became one of three de facto leaders of the church?! How? Why? It makes no sense! Dude was clearly a grifter and decided if he can't destroy them from the outside, he'd destroy them from the inside AND IT WORKED! And for all of history ever since then, the church has constantly been fighting about what books belong in the Bible and about how to interpret the ones that they agree on, so for me to deny that Paul ever talked to Jesus (whom he never met) shouldn't be controversial, and yet here we are.
Paul is the essence of everything that's wrong with Christianity. He taught some good things, he taught some bad things, and regardless of either of those, he DID horrible things that should've precluded him from being in the position he ended up in, but because he DID end up in that position, murderers, child molesters, and other terrible people can claim that God saved them, that they're now good godly people, and next thing you know they're in positions of power that allow them to abuse people with no repercussions. That is the legacy of Paul.
I'm not claiming that there's no repentance and salvation, I'm just saying that Christians have historically been bad judges of character and just accept people's word that they've changed, and then cover up for those people when they prove they haven't, rather than admitting they made a mistake.
The single biggest cause of atheism is Christians. I could continue the quote, but don't need to. A true statement is a true statement.
By “Jesus’ most important discipline” I meant that he had the biggest impact on Christian history out of all the disciples not that he was Jesus’ favorite (that would be Peter). Sorry for the confusion.
And hey if you don’t like Paul and his message then more power to you, but most Christians don’t think that way unfortunately. :/
Disciples are anyone who follows the teachings of Jesus. His apostles were the 12 closest to him but everyone else were his disciples, including Christians today. At least that’s what I was taught growing up
Again, I don't believe in any of that anymore. For all of what you said to be true, it would mean Jesus ACTUALLY spoke to him in visions. But since I think that's likely untrue, it could easily be that the disciples said those things to help keep up the facade and just wrote what they wanted.
It's possible a man who was trusting and loving like Jesus could be convinced that his followers were taught well only for them to insert their own opinions into writings after his death.
Also, I feel like Jesus would have spoken up about his "homophobic beliefs" during his life time, but maybe that's just me.
Well if you don’t think Paul should count as a real source for Jesus’ wisdom that’s fine but most Christians don’t share that view.
You don’t think Jesus at least once would come back down and be like “hey, you guys are misinterpreting me maybe don’t murder gay people?”. I mean, he cared about the lives of queer people right? Just give someone important a vision
Well if you don’t think Paul should count as a real source for Jesus’ wisdom that’s fine but most Christians don’t share that view.
I know. Again, there's a reason I lost my faith.
You don’t think Jesus at least once would come back down and be like “hey, you guys are misinterpreting me maybe don’t murder gay people?”. I mean, he cared about the lives of queer people right? Just give someone important a vision
Again, you're operating under the assumption that he was actually the son of God, that God is real, and that Jesus actually had the ability to do that after his death. At this point, you're clearly just upset with the disciples, not Jesus.
I realize I’m taking that position, because I’m trying to argue with christians on their own ground: ie that Jesus is the son of god. Ultimately the point I wanted to make is that it’s irrelevant what Jesus said or believed because being queer is fine regardless. I didn’t realize you weren’t a Christian, sorry about that. I also grew up religious and lost my faith for similar reasons.
Lol okay cool. I was confused why you kept taking that position 😅. I was definitely only defending Jesus, not the other people's ideas that muddied up his message.
It was definitely a trip to be taught how cool Jesus was, then see adult christians in the community just go a completely different direction because of random interpretations of one book or another.
Same! I grew up catholic and went to a liberal catholic school and was always taught about loving the poor and downtrodden and being accepting of your neighbors and being explicitly anti-racist. Then I went to college and was surprised to find out the catholic group there was full of evangelical conservatives larping as Catholics :/
Made me do a lot of research and reading on my faith and its history and eventually led me to leaving both the group and the church.
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u/BellyDancerEm 20d ago
More accurately it is not Christian to dislike any race of people, or religion, or sexuality, or gender identity,