r/PublicFreakout Oct 01 '24

🌎 World Events Missile impacts in Israel

22.0k Upvotes

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2.4k

u/204gaz00 Oct 01 '24

I wonder how many missiles were launched this time. There seems to be a lot more making contact with the ground unlike last time

1.6k

u/llcooljacob_ Oct 01 '24

The difference here is that these are ballistic missiles, not the Frankenstein rockets that Hamas sends over. These are much harder to intercept.

344

u/jabronified Oct 02 '24

last time for iran mostly sent slow moving drones. but yes, the difference is these are ballistic missiles and a lot of them

112

u/Neither-Luck-9295 Oct 02 '24

What's the difference between a ballistic missile and a regular one?

323

u/jagedlion Oct 02 '24

A ballistic missile flies really high (as in, space high), and then just 'falls' to its target. In that way it travels a 'ballistic' trajectory, like a bullet would on the way down. (Though many can slightly angle on the way down to dodge defenses and better hit targets)

As a result they can be going crazy fast on their way down. Very hard to defend against. Easiest is to shoot them down on the way up, but they do that over friendly territory. If you have a good enough system, you can sometimes intercept them in space, but that still quite hard.

106

u/SongFeisty8759 Oct 02 '24

On the other hand although it's re-entry is fast (hypersonic in most cases), its ballistic path is more predictable. 

1

u/PetakIsMyName Oct 03 '24

I’d just befriend all the spiders and ask them to make a giant web above my city.

7

u/Theron3206 Oct 02 '24

Hamas rockets are also ballistic missiles, just smaller and cruder ones.

That said, those appear to be missing, so would they even intercept, given the risk that intercepting a miss would result in debris which could easily hit something?

142

u/TheMadFlyentist Oct 02 '24 edited Oct 02 '24

You've gotten some answers on what a ballistic missile is, but just in case anyone needs more clarification:

The missiles that Hamas has been sending into Israel for decades now are unguided and "homemade", essentially just model rockets on steroids. They weld together a rocket body with fins and then use a fuel made from fertilizer such as potassium/urea nitrate. For the warhead (explosive tip) they use high explosives that they scavenge from military targets or (rarely) make themselves.

Since they are unguided and fairly amateur, they cause a high degree of collateral damage since it's impossible to accurately aim them at military targets. Generally it seems that Hamas doesn't really care where they hit, they just want them to hit anywhere in Israel (including civilian housing).

These amateur missiles are the rockets that the Iron Dome is designed to defend against, and the system generally does a great job at stopping them.

The missiles in the OP are military-grade ballistic missiles, hence why the Iron Dome is effectively useless less effective against them.

50

u/WhiteMilk_ Oct 02 '24

For the warhead (explosive tip) they use high explosives that they scavenge from military targets

One big source is unexploded israeli munitions.

6

u/VexingRaven Oct 02 '24

Iron Dome being less effective isn't anything to do with them being guided. They're launched from further away, meaning they come in steeper and faster with less time to intercept. You need bigger, longer range interceptors to stop these compared the aircraft and short-range missiles Iron Dome is designed for.

2

u/TheMadFlyentist Oct 02 '24

Yeah, I didn't say otherwise. Maybe you're just adding additional context for others.

16

u/ljtwins97 Oct 02 '24

Well Israhell has better technology with the missiles but they also don’t care where they hit, as long as they hit civilians but pretend it’s Hamas

2

u/Hohh20 Oct 02 '24

The iron dome was doing it's job and intercepting a lot of them, but it wasn't able to get them all. I guess they defended against the ones that were most critical and left the others to hit parts of the city that weren't as important or devastating.

51

u/ddd615 Oct 02 '24

I just googled it. Apparently a ballistic missile is only powered during the beginning of it's flight. (Think of ICBM's being rocketed to space or a high altitude before falling back to earth at their target.)

Regular missiles apparently are powered throughout their flight.

77

u/NeverTrustATurtle Oct 02 '24

ICBMs are ballistic missiles, that’s the BM part. The IC means inter continental range

2

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '24 edited Nov 18 '24

[deleted]

2

u/ProclusGlobal Oct 02 '24

What about an air-to-air missile? Those are powered through reaching the target and are definitely NOT cruise missiles nor are they ballistic. Like one jet shooting another.

2

u/VexingRaven Oct 02 '24

While you're technically right that all missiles are "ballistic" in the same sense that all bullets are ballistic, there's a distinction you're missing here. A "ballistic" missile is one that follows a ballistic path intentionally as part of its design. They up go, and then down toward the target. A non-ballistic missile like an AA missile, although it is technically ballistic, does not deliberately follow a ballistic path even though some of them are unpowered for some portion of their flight. It flies as direct a course as possible. Gravity is only a small part of the forces affecting its flight path, compared to a medium or long range ballistic missile which intentionally gets as high as possible and falls back down.

1

u/VexingRaven Oct 02 '24

Regular missiles apparently are powered throughout their flight.

This isn't true either, missiles are often powered only for part of the flight as well. However, a ballistic missile flies a ballistic trajectory, meaning it goes up in the air and then falls back down by gravity. A non-ballistic missile will boost directly toward (or in front of) the target and then coast toward it at high speed. For example, anti-air missiles will fly toward the target and coast into its path, then explode when they meet.

2

u/zazoopraystar Oct 02 '24 edited Oct 03 '24

It’s highly likely a lot of these are their new medium range Fattah Hypersonic missiles.

They are 2 stage meaning they take off as one piece then the warhead top cone separates with its own rocket engine becoming even faster before impact. Think like the Gemini space rockets. These would be very fast and likely able to defeat the Dome when used as a cluster type attack.

These missiles along with what’s already been described here were unveiled in 2023 by Iran.

1

u/Aj2W0rK Oct 02 '24

The speed, The speeeed

1

u/numb_mind Oct 02 '24

Why do you call them 'Frankenstein' rockets?

11

u/llcooljacob_ Oct 02 '24

It's pretty well-documented that because of Israel's military blockade of Gaza, Hamas aren't able to import materials to build rockets, so the rockets they have are cobbled together from the remnants of Israeli rockets that have landed in Gaza. That's why so many of the rockets never even make it into Israel and often land in Gaza. That's also why Iron Dome has a high success rate of intercepting these rockets, because they're very slow and low-tech.

1

u/FusionFord Oct 02 '24

Was it ever established how a mini prop plane was miraculously able to get a couple of goons through the iron dome defense system on October7th?

-6

u/RagingNoper Oct 02 '24

Not ballistic missiles, cruise missiles.

20

u/Icy-Cry340 Oct 02 '24

No, these are ballistic.

14

u/Drunky_McStumble Oct 02 '24

No, this is Patrick.

10

u/rsta223 Oct 02 '24

These are absolutely not cruise missiles

0

u/RagingNoper Oct 02 '24

I don't know, the angle of attack on those warheads appears too low to be ballistic considering the distance to potential launch points, and Iranian TV is confirming use of the Fattah-2, which is a cruise missile.

6

u/rsta223 Oct 02 '24

Ballistic missiles can travel on a number of different trajectories with different impact angles, and cruise missiles travel at constant altitude at too slow a speed to cause sufficient heating to glow visibly.

These are ballistic missiles.

2

u/204gaz00 Oct 02 '24

Holy shit those are glowing mid air because of the re-entry? That's wild

1

u/RagingNoper Oct 02 '24

Well not necessarily because of reentry, but because.of velocity. Some hypersonic missiles may not leave the atmosphere but can still travel at speeds fast enough to cause that glow.

0

u/PG67AW Oct 02 '24

But ballistic missiles tend to have a very high apogee and also a very predictable flight path. Easier to see, easier to meet. It's more of a defense system parity issue, IMO.

2

u/llcooljacob_ Oct 02 '24

I’m by no means a missile expert but my understanding is that because they arc much higher, they’re harder to track and then also the speed of their descent makes them harder to intercept. I also think they have a different system entirely for these kinds of rockets called Arrow, which I don’t really know anything about.

-9

u/jorel43 Oct 02 '24

They are hypersonic missiles, not ballistic

9

u/Icy-Cry340 Oct 02 '24

Bro look at how slow they are. These aren't hypersonics.

2

u/rsta223 Oct 02 '24

Almost all ballistic missiles travel hypersonic, including these. They wouldn't be glowing from the heat if they weren't going Mach 5+.

(Also, these things are hauling ass in this video. Compare this to how slow airliners look when they're going nearly Mach 1)

0

u/Icy-Cry340 Oct 02 '24

Those are engine trails, they're not glowing from reentry. Anyhow, Iran did use some hypersonics in this strike. And they look altogether different.

https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/status/1841259141664555091

4

u/rsta223 Oct 02 '24 edited Oct 02 '24

No, the engine isn't burning during the terminal phase of a ballistic missile. The engine only burns during ascent. This is glowing due to compression heating due to re-entry, and they are absolutely traveling hypersonic or close to it.

And I have a master's degree in high speed aerodynamics, so I know more than you.

Edit: also, your link is also just a ballistic missile strike (again, likely hypersonic or close to it at impact), it's just closer to the camera which makes it look faster.

2

u/Icy-Cry340 Oct 02 '24

Hmm, well ok.

-2

u/BDady Oct 02 '24

They are nuclear missiles, not hypersonic.

123

u/DoctorMoebius Oct 01 '24

Current press say 100

63

u/pitamandan Oct 02 '24

Now 180+.

3

u/fritzcho Oct 02 '24

Some Iranian press say 400

3

u/estysoccer Oct 02 '24 edited Oct 02 '24

A lot of people don't understand how easy it is to calculate the trajectory and targets of ballistic missiles... all of these are being allowed to hit because there is no target there... either open ocean or Negev desert. There's no point in wasting an expensive anti-ballistic defense missile on something that is not going to impact anything of value, ESPECIALLY when defending a high-quantity barrage like this.

Unofficial estimates (and Iran themselves) have indicated this barrage to have been around 350 to 400.

Editing to add a clarification: when I say it's easy, I'm talking about the ease with which detection and defense systems can calculate the trajectory and targets. So they can very easily and quickly decide which incoming missiles to counter, and which ones to ignore as harmless.

2

u/204gaz00 Oct 02 '24

Ballistic missiles are more accurate and I'm pretty sure they land close to where they are targeted. I doubt very highly the people's punching in coordinates aren't targeting the desert. But I was thinking the same. I'm sure they can detect the trajectory or approximate the area the missile will land. If nothing of value in the area why engage but there are just so many missiles it had to have overwhelmed the iron dome

1

u/estysoccer Oct 02 '24

Yeah I realized I wasn't clear in my comment, so I added a clarification:

Editing to add a clarification: when I say it's easy, I'm talking about the ease with which detection and defense systems can calculate the trajectory and targets. So they can very easily and quickly decide which incoming missiles to counter, and which ones to ignore as harmless.

6

u/anonymousopottamus Oct 02 '24

Iranian rockets move a lot faster than the ones made by Hamas and the Iron Dome isn't intercepting them very well.

One of my best friends had to leave N. America for TA for business for the next 3-4 years (not military related) and since they arrived has spent a ton of time in bomb shelters - today was especially bad they said.

Civilians need to be left out of this stupid fight on all sides. And HMS, HZA, and PA need to stop hiding among civilians and fight it out with their military against the IDF - war isn't supposed to be fought amongst the countrymen and this whole thing is all around tragic.

7

u/queed Oct 02 '24

A thing about war is that it always impacts the civilians.

4

u/anonymousopottamus Oct 02 '24

Yes but there's a difference between fighting on "battlegrounds" and hiding under apartment buildings. Anyhow war sucks.

6

u/psychrolut Oct 02 '24

Pots and kettles

2

u/beneye Oct 02 '24

Bout tree fiddy

1

u/Hibernian_Lad Oct 02 '24

Hypersonic speeds I believe

1

u/paushi Oct 03 '24

I heard it were way less than last time. Like half or so.

1

u/rippinkitten18 Oct 03 '24

They said 180.

Bull shit.

Iran launched at least 700 rockets to bait out the iron dome.

Then they launched hypersonic missiles hoping the bait will drown out waste on the smaller rockets.

1

u/jorel43 Oct 02 '24

These are fatah hypersonic missiles, they travel at speeds greater than mach 4, very few air defense systems can stop them. The other poster is responding to you are wrong, it's not a ballistic missile, ballistic missiles are more like icbms in how they work. The trajectory is perpendicular not vertical.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersonic_weapon

-13

u/Rock_Me_DrZaius Oct 01 '24

making contact with empty ground

2

u/Codemonkeyyy Oct 02 '24

Nu uh! It got 1 Palestinian.