r/JewsOfConscience • u/richards1052 Jewish Anti-Zionist • Nov 08 '24
Opinion Harris's refusal to condemn Gaza genocide enraged young voters, who sat on their hands and cost her the election
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/07/opinion/democrats-israel-gaza-war.html55
u/BeardedDragon1917 Nov 08 '24
Can’t get past the paywall. Is there any statistical evidence that this is the case in the article?
105
u/Arestothenes Non-Jewish Ally Nov 08 '24
Eh, if Harris had gotten all the Jill Stein and PAL voters, she still would have lost. Those two groups didn’t even crack a million.
68
u/BeardedDragon1917 Nov 08 '24 edited Nov 08 '24
Presumably, there are a lot of people who wouldn’t consider voting for a third-party, but might just stay home if they have nothing to vote for. A lot of them only voted in 2020 because they had their ballot mailed directly to their house.
A huge percentage of people in our country are living paycheck to paycheck, and I think that it’s very hard to motivate a lot of those people to vote when their personal situation doesn’t look to be getting better anytime soon. The Democrats being marginally better on civil rights issues is only going to motivate people who care deeply about civil rights issues, and even then, it will only motivate them for as long as they still believe that their support will be paid back with actual policy changes. It has been three, arguably four election cycles since Democrats started trying to win on a platform of giving their wealthy donors whatever they want, but not being as awful as Republicans, and hoping that the two party system forces everyone who isn’t a Republican to vote for them.. They are learning the lesson that in a two party system, there are in fact, three options, and one of them is staying home. American culture has not yet reckoned with the idea that there are people who are informed, not stupid or apathetic, but make the decision that voting isn’t worth their time because they don’t see any options that would improve their lives as even being on the table.
59
u/Arestothenes Non-Jewish Ally Nov 08 '24
Yeah, most of the non-voters just felt like it didn’t matter. But admitting that to themselves would make Democrats doubt themselves, so they’re instead blaming Muslims, leftists and trans people.
18
u/BeardedDragon1917 Nov 08 '24
I'm also a bit skeptical of that, honestly. I've seen a few twitter screenshots of people saying wild shit, but they rarely show a large amount of interaction. I've been around the internet long enough to know that people can push any point they want by screenshotting a few tweets and calling that a consensus. Twitter and Reddit accounts are free. I'd wait and see what people with actual audiences are saying before I lament anything.
8
u/Arestothenes Non-Jewish Ally Nov 08 '24
Well, Covid and poverty probably also played a part in depressing the vote? Those are the two big things that could make voting not feel worth it, bc life would already be hard enough. Also voter suppression was taken up a notch since Georgia turned blue for Biden in 2020.
But yeah, it’s difficult to get one definitive answer. Seems like it was just a cornucopia of shitty events that neither party cared for (or viewed as bad).
-10
u/Logic411 Nov 08 '24
Awww they went with their Feelings, instead of the FACTS? And that’s the DEMS fault? Sure
2
u/Different-Bus8023 Nov 09 '24
It is their job to cater to the base if they do a bad job by idk giving their candidate a month to campaign that is on them.
12
Nov 08 '24
I only bothered to vote because i like to vote on state referendums.
14
u/BeardedDragon1917 Nov 08 '24
A good reason to vote, actually. Participating in local politics is often significantly more useful than the national stuff.
12
Nov 08 '24
Yep. Especially being anti-war, my vote means nothing on big races, but has a chance of effecting something on city elections or state referendums.
13
u/Euphoric_Exchange_51 Nov 08 '24
Up until the last second I planned on voting for none of the presidential candidates since I don’t live in a swing state. I’d gone to the polls but only to vote for lower offices. Had I lived in a swing state, I’d have done the lesser of two evils vote without question, but it seemed like there was no reason for me to do so, and voting for someone who supports genocide was unthinkable to me in a scenario where my vote wouldn’t matter anyway. I’m still not sure what changed my mind.
21
u/Garak_The_Tailor_ Nov 08 '24
I agree, also telling people who are having a hard time surviving that they're wrong and the economy is booming, is a loser strategy.
9
u/BeardedDragon1917 Nov 08 '24
For real. Even if it booming according to the numbers you choose to look at, why not take the hint and tell the people what they want to hear? It's not like have to deny the stock market is up to do that!
12
u/Garak_The_Tailor_ Nov 08 '24
I don't think using the stock market is a good indicator anyway. people living pay check to pay check don't invest.
-11
u/Logic411 Nov 08 '24
Do all of a sudden equal opportunity isn’t enough. Now the dems are supposed to engineer equal RESULTS as well? Cool what are the republicans doing in that area though?
11
u/BeardedDragon1917 Nov 08 '24
The Republicans offer their voters a compelling narrative for why their lives are hard, who is responsible, and what they’re going to do about it. It’s a stupid narrative, a shitty, racist, one, but it is a narrative. It even has a hero. The Democrats offer, on the other hand, absolutely nothing. They refused to address any of the issues that their base wants addressed, constantly court imaginary Republican moderates and alienate their base doing so, And when people on the fence make their issues heard, the response is to beat them down and accuse them of being Trump supporters. Pro-Palestine activists at the Democratic national convention were assaulted multiple times, and nothing was done about it. Are they supposed to go out and vote Democrat too?
4
u/bz0hdp Nov 08 '24
What is the purpose of having a government if it isn't to increase the quality of life of all people?
-6
u/Logic411 Nov 08 '24
The economy IS booming. Pull your head out and look around
7
u/PapaverOneirium Nov 08 '24
Well, I always found all the articles about the booming economy a bit strange because of my anecdotal experience; friends and family getting laid off, struggling for months to find new jobs, a raise and hiring freeze at my company that has lasted a year. Every time I go to the grocery store I leave with the sense that I have somehow gotten poorer. The housing market in my city has gone hyperbolic and my dreams of owning a here home with it.
But I chalked all that up as the recovery being uneven, that specific industries and geographies were seeing tougher times while on average times were good. Because that is what the data says, right?
But now we have an election that seems to have been, primarily, a referendum on the economy. And it appears I am not alone.
So if the data says everything is great, but people don’t feel that way, could it perhaps be that are measures are missing something? Maybe we are looking at things the wrong way?
But instead everyone has been told: no, we cannot be wrong about this, look at this graph. The way you’re feeling? You’ve just been bamboozled. You’re an ignorant chump swallowing propaganda. Don’t trust your own experience. It’s wrong.
4
u/TurbulentData961 Nov 08 '24
The data lies but not how people think . I recently found out that federal statistics are counting ghost jobs aka jobs that ain't real so no wonder jobs are being created ... on linked in but not in a hiring budget or actual people in jobs
-1
u/Logic411 Nov 08 '24
There are hiring signs outside of businesses all over the place. I suggest all these lazy people to get out there and stop waiting for trump’s Covid checks that aren’t coming
4
u/IndyHermit Nov 09 '24
no job with a sign outside its business is paying a living wage. the economy has shifted. qualified people with significant higher education are having a very difficult time finding jobs that pay enough to cover expenses. professional jobs do not hang sides outside ffs
1
u/Logic411 Nov 09 '24
Fair enough Covid upended a lot of people. The layoffs throughout the valley and media. That’s tough but trump’s crews aren’t going to do anything about that, they seem to be consolidating big time. And the medical field…it’s greed really. Insatiable . At least Biden was expanding chips act, investing in health care now it’s right back to everything being concentrated at the top among a few gazillionaires using ai and robots to further kill the American dr.people don’t think long term any longer. We were a very ill world yet people want instant recovery with no lingering side effects.
1
u/Logic411 Nov 08 '24
Maybe they are like the people who get fired and blame the system. Maybe they want to earn 80k with no education. Or maybe they’re just living beyond their means. One thing is for sure History proves trump is not going to make it better for them if anything it’s going to get worse and if they voted for him they’ll deserve it
3
u/PapaverOneirium Nov 08 '24
Trump won’t make it better, he’ll make it worse, but he won because the democrats didn’t do enough to acknowledge and address their concerns and he did, with lies that were vile but unfortunately effective.
Whether they were right or wrong to be concerned in the first place, it doesn’t really matter if you lose because of it. A strategy of trying to genuinely understand why these concerns are so prevalent and address them authentically would have been much more effective than simply saying “no, you’re wrong, everything is actually great”.
5
u/Garak_The_Tailor_ Nov 09 '24
No I'm sure smugly telling people what they see and experience is wrong will be a winning strategy for the Dems eventually
0
u/Logic411 Nov 08 '24
No one can guarantee equality of results. This is a capitalist society. Beyond gouging laws companies are allowed to set their own prices. This economy is COOKING, read the numbers. Traffic EVERYWHERE, market parking lots are Full, more travelers than ever.that 💩 doesn’t happen in a depressed economy. 😆 hiring signs everywhere. Nothing is perfect but we’re doing pretty darn well
1
u/Life_Bridge_9960 Nov 09 '24
I am one of them. I didn't know anything about Jill. Sure, I could go vote for Jill. But it's an empty gesture. I know no way Jill would win.
So I decided to sleep in, stay home, and didn't give a damn about this election.
6
u/IndyHermit Nov 09 '24
a candidate does not have to win to effect change. the green new deal was lifted directly from the green party platform by dems. voting third party demonstrates a voter’s desires and forces the Duopoly to acknowledge those desires. the more people show up and demonstrate their desires by voting, the stronger the message they send. if enough people vote third party (5%) that party will get federal funding in the next election cycle. this would increase the likelihood that third party platforms will become part of public discourse and eventually such candidates might be able to successfully demand debate participation, which happened in 80s. this winner take all bs and the notion of wasted votes is just Duopoly smoke and mirrors to discourage third party participation. The Democratic party is intentionally trying to force people to vote for their candidates by making us feel we have no other choice, and it’s simply not true. We can protest garbage candidates by staying home, as proven this week, or we can vote for someone else and articulate our actual desires.
-3
u/Logic411 Nov 08 '24
Complete fantasy. lol republicans are the source of all that pain they have NEVER done ANYTHING for working people. Right now in the newly retaken MI legislature the GOP is attempting to reinstate “right to work laws, which were repealed by DEMOCRATS two years ago. Do try again
9
u/BeardedDragon1917 Nov 08 '24
I’m not saying that Republicans have been good for the working class. Of course they haven’t. But in this election, they were offering people a solution to their problems. A shitty, racist, fascistic solution to their problems, but a solution. When voters told the Harris campaign that they were struggling, the response was that the economy is doing great, and Bidenomics is a massive success. It’s not like Trump won more voters, he lost some! But Harris told the voters loud and clear that nothing they cared about was going to be addressed, and her not being Trump was the only positive thing that she was going to give them in return for their vote. Biden said the exact same thing when he was elected, straight to the face of the head of the NAACP, and he barely won against Trump, during a massive pandemic, where the ballots were mailed directly to peoples houses. 13 million of those voters decided to stay home this year. Democrats wanted to see how far they could take the “barely better than Republicans” platform and now they’ve hit, hard, against the limits of that strategy. Let’s hope that they actually learn the correct lesson from this, because the cynic in me is predicting they won’t.
1
u/Capable-Dog-4708 Nov 14 '24
Who did NAFTA, TPP, CAFTA?
Who bailed out big banks and left the homeowners out in the dust? Not just Republicans.
Before Biden, what specific things did Democrats do for unions and workers?
Who, with a Democrat president and majorities in both houses of Congress, passed a Republican healthcare plan?
With Standing Rock, who said to "just let it play out?" And so let an oil pipeline get installed under a clean water source that millions of Americans rely on, stomping on Native American rights?
Who went to Flint, MI, where lead pipes are poisoning the children, pretended to drink the water, and said, "there's nothing wrong here"? Those lead pipes are still in place in Flint and in many cities across the US.
That's just a few things. I have lost any trust for Democrats. I still voted for Harris, but I unless the party changes drastically, that will be my last vote.
30
u/AlphaCentauri10 Anti-Zionist Nov 08 '24
The truth that most of us refuse to see.
11
u/Euphoric_Exchange_51 Nov 08 '24
You’re right, but it still would have made a difference. Modifying Biden’s position on Gaza was a necessary but insufficient requirement for Harris’ success. All else being equal, it wouldn’t have been enough to tip the election in her favor, but it still could have played a decisive role had her campaign been more effective in other areas as well. The fact that Harris’ messaging on Gaza alone wouldn’t have changed the outcome of the election doesn’t mean her continuation of Biden’s position wasn’t a political blunder.
7
u/Far_Silver Non-Jewish Ally Nov 08 '24
Yeah. She also needed better messaging on the economy, especially inflation, cost-of-living, and price gougers.
0
u/Logic411 Nov 08 '24
What was trump’s message on those things? Please be specific
7
u/PapaverOneirium Nov 08 '24
His messaging was that “you are right about feeling poorer, the people telling you not to trust your own experience think you’re stupid, but they are wrong. They did this to you by giving handouts to illegals at your expense and caring more about pronouns and trans people in sports than your suffering. You didn’t feel this way in 2019, did you? That was because of me. And I’ll fix it again and punish the people responsible”
It was a vile message full of lies, but it was simple and compelling enough to convince people that don’t know much better. The democrats need to come up with a narrative that is just as simple and compelling but do so in a way that is positive and doesn’t paint the marginalized as the ones responsible.
1
3
u/Far_Silver Non-Jewish Ally Nov 08 '24
? I'm not a Trump supporter and I did ask that people in swing states hold their noses and vote for Harris because I do consider her the lesser evil.
10
u/mermaidunearthed Anti-Zionist Nov 08 '24
It’s not just about the Jill Stein voters in particular - it’s about those who didn’t vote at all in protest.
11
u/_Beets_By_Dwight_ Nov 08 '24 edited Nov 08 '24
Yes, but many sat at home and didn't vote at all. From what I saw the last time I checked, something like 20% of the previous election consisted of voters under 30, heavily blue, while in this one they only made up 14% and were less favorably blue
Now I don't know the age group demographics of now vs 4 years ago, but to me it sure seems like a lot of erstwhile blue voters may have sat this one out, whether it was because of their disillusionment over Gaza, other right-wing Kamala swings or other issues.
For what it's worth, those under 30 care more about justice, are much better informed on Gaza, and also quite disillusioned about their future regardless of party. Also, many of them have seen, if not been involved in, what actually happened on college campuses, as well as realize the lies about them that the Dems were complicit in propagating
0
19
u/dvdwbb Nov 08 '24
between 34 and 39% of undecided voters said they would vote for Harris if she introduced an arms embargo
9
7
u/Moostronus Jewish Anti-Zionist Nov 08 '24
I have seen this stat going around a lot, and it's hugely damaging to the DNC and their campaign messaging which was shit. I do think it's important to emphasize that 34-39% undecided voters would be more likely to vote for Harris, rather than would vote for her, according to the framing of the poll. It would have helped a ton but wouldn't have singlehandedly swung the election. The campaign fucked up in a looooot of ways, not just one.
3
u/accidentalrorschach Jewish Anti-Zionist Nov 08 '24
Where did you see that stat? Just curious because I've heard so many conflicting ones.
3
u/panguardian Nov 08 '24
I cannot vote for a candidate who supports plausible genocide. Just can't do it. Visceral. Its a red line I can't cross.
16
u/Soggy-Life-9969 Jewish Anti-Zionist Nov 08 '24
A lot of people sat out, whether it was for Gaza or other reasons, we don't know but I could see people being disgusted by the genocide not wanting to take time out of their day to do a protest vote.
16
u/Arestothenes Non-Jewish Ally Nov 08 '24
I think low-propensity voters who were already on the verge of not caring got pushed over the edge by both sides’ pro-genocide messaging. Like “The Dems are sending money to kill all those kids, so are the Reps, while I have to take three jobs, fuck this.”
7
u/AlleyRhubarb Nov 08 '24
This article doesn’t say young people voted for someone else, it says they stayed home. That’s incredibly difficult to poll why after the fact. During the election, there were many independent and Democrat polls that showed even in Pennsylvania, voters were more favorable towards arms embargoes and other pro-Palestinian efforts than maintaining the status quo. Hispanic voters in particular identified Palestinian concerns of high importance.
9
u/BodhisattvaBob Non-denominational Nov 08 '24 edited Nov 10 '24
I doubt those respective weights are being accurately quantified.
How do you quantify the number of people who didn't show up because of the Gaza genocide, or the number of people who showed up and wrote "no votes for genocide" or "free Palestine"? Or the numbers of trump votes that werent votes for trump but antigenocide votes against harris?
I got an exit poll texted to my phone. It was useless. Q1, did you vote? Yes. Q2, harris or trump? Had to stop. I didnt vote for either and there was no way to skip the q.
2
u/AoiTopGear Nov 08 '24
The article is talking about non voters who were not happy about Harris genocide support. So stein and pal voters are not part of this article. There were lots of non voters who didn’t vote due to Gaza issue
3
2
11
3
1
1
31
u/boyyhowdy Nov 08 '24
The quadrennial tradition of Democrats blaming their own failures on those pesky leftists.
27
u/Ok_Editor_710 Non-denominational Nov 08 '24 edited Nov 09 '24
On top of not condemning the genocide, she doubled down on attacks Young voters, she and her party smeared them as "antisemitic". Cops were sent with blessing of Democrats to attack students protesting mass murder and ethnic cleansing. Students were expelled from Universities for having a conscience, others were prevented from matriculating on graduation day. Free Speech is under siege across American campsuses, lecturers who showed solidarity with students were suspended and fired with blessing of Democrats
In short, Democrats waged a war against one of their core constituency to defend a Fascist Apartheid Country.
11
u/GroundbreakingTax259 Nov 08 '24
And let's not forget a few other salient points. Israel invaded Lebanon a month before the election (sorry, it "initiated cross-border infantry operations"... ugh), and nobody in the campaign said a word. There may not be a ton of Palestinians in Dearborn or Hamtramck, but there sure are a lot of Lebanese people. On top of that, the campaign actively promoted its endorsement by the Cheneys. A significant proportion of those cities in Michigan only live there because of what Cheney did. I genuinely believe that somebody in the campaign was trying to prove a point about how they could win without Michigan, because that is the only explanation for that boneheaded of a move.
And that's ignoring all of the other problems, like the Biden/Harris campaign basically arguing that they would be better at carrying out Trump's immigration policy, rather than rejecting the premise of a "Crisis at the Border."
3
u/Ok_Editor_710 Non-denominational Nov 08 '24
I can't argue with a single point you make, cause I agree with everyone of them wholeheartedly. It's as if Harris Campaign wanted to prove they can be more out of touch than the 2016 Clinton Campaign.
Everyone (I hope ) knows that Elections are a referendum on the Present. Yet like the Clinton 2016 Campaign Harris Campaign doubled down on the policies of an incumbent Democrat who has left their base dissatisfied. For Clinton it was the Bernie wing of the party. For Harris it is/was the Uncommitted/Gaza voters.Hilary ran as a continuation of Obama. Harris ran as a continuation of Biden. The two women Democrats have ran for president were hacks who couldn't chart their own course and had no core message of optimism for voters.
The embrace of the Cheneys is exactly what you think it is. Democrats thought that they could replace their 200K uncommitted muslim voters in Michigan with the 200K voters in Michigan who voted for Nikki Haley. Which begs the question: Why didn't they court Nikki Haley instead of the Cheneys?
Oops! Cause she was busy endorsing Trump!
1
u/Capable-Dog-4708 Nov 14 '24
Disagree some on the Bernie folks thing.
Quote: "With over 74% of Sanders followers taking Bernie's lead to vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016, Sanders voters contributed mightily to Clinton’s popular vote win, as well as her prevailing in several swing states, that she would have otherwise lost, going down to a crushing defeat. Sanders voters were an indispensable contribution to her popular vote tallies."
2
u/Ok_Editor_710 Non-denominational Nov 14 '24
Did not realize that high number of Bernie voters voted for Hilary. I've been duped by the mainstream media in believing that Bernie voters cost her the election.
1
u/Capable-Dog-4708 Nov 15 '24
I used to just do mainstream media. I made some progressive friends and they very gently opened my eyes.
Some of my favorites that I now frequent instead of corporate media are Secular Talk, The Humanist Report, The Rational National, Zeteo, Democracy Now.....
63
u/conscience_journey Jewish Anti-Zionist Nov 08 '24
Young voters didn’t lose the election for her. Kamala and Joe lost it for themselves.
11
u/Artistic-Vanilla-899 Non-Jewish Ally Nov 08 '24
This! In a democracy, politicians are held accountable. It was disturbing the pressure put in voters to vote a certain way. That makes people less likely to participate and become more cynical. Politicians answer people, not the the other way around.
8
u/mildcaseofdeath Nov 08 '24
Yup. Blaming voters for this is the same as blaming car buyers for the collapse of the US auto industry in the 2000s. This would never have happened if y'all just kept buying the shitty cars we were making!
16
u/NeverForgetNGage Jewish Communist Nov 08 '24
The DNC not having primaries while gaslighting voters about Joe Biden's clear cognitive issues should have everyone running the party fired into the sun.
They lied to the public and are shocked that people didn't just bend over for them.
11
u/Artistic-Vanilla-899 Non-Jewish Ally Nov 08 '24
The priblem is not the voters. They are not to blame. Democrats and Harris, the candidates, lost the elections. It was their fault for not presenting an appealing candidacy.
Democrats like to blame the voters instead if examine their own weaknesses. If nothing changes, nothing will change.
Harris pressured voters to vote for her. It should be the other way. Politicians answer voters. Voters do not answer Politicians. Shame on the NYT
20
u/PontifexIudaeacus Jewish Nov 08 '24
I really don’t think this was the reason, or that Israel/Palestine issues played any significant role in her loss.
23
u/Garak_The_Tailor_ Nov 08 '24
I tend to agree though, she lost Michigan because of Gaza. For the rest, I think inflation played much bigger role overall. She lost a significant amount of voters, especially young voters, that accounted for Biden's win in 2020. I think it's hard to say if those young voters stayed home directly because of the genocide or general apathy though.
11
u/watermelonkiwi Raised Jewish, non-religious Nov 08 '24
I donno why people think they can say that so confidently, I think it could have played a big role. And I’m not sure why people think that’s “blaming” voters rather than holding democrats accountable or letting them know that the issue matters and they better change their policy on it if they want to win.
16
u/TinyZoro Jewish Anti-Zionist Nov 08 '24
I don’t agree. Maybe not on its own. But you can’t alienate your core vote as much as the Democrats do and expect to win elections against populists throwing red meat at their own supporters.
16
u/FOH33 Nov 08 '24
AOC said that when most activists and organizers who usually are involved in the election are convinced that you are supporting a genocide, it gets hard to organize and get out the vote. It's not just the raw number of people, it's the fact that the people who usually support you the most and are most active sat this one out.
4
u/IndyHermit Nov 09 '24 edited Nov 09 '24
I still can’t believe all those people endorsed genocide. People I love and respect endorsed the genocide in Palestine. It breaks my heart. No electoral victory could be worth doing that. No threat should be able to convince that many otherwise morally upright people to actively consent to the atrocities underway.
Harris should be ashamed. She stood before the world and proclaimed, I will pay soldiers to rape and torture innocent men and women, destroy family homes, murder babies in the most violent ways if only you will give me political power! Our nation has suffered a terrible moral injury. The democratic party is a toxic, abusive organization that uses sophisticated propaganda to manipulate the electorate to condone and participate in genocide. It makes me sick.
7
u/soonerfreak Jewish Anti-Zionist Nov 08 '24
It's a bigger factor than her race or gender as those shitty people were already backing Trump. But up for grabs voters in swing states did care about Palestinians.
7
u/TurbulentData961 Nov 08 '24
Maybe not Palestine directly but think of the response to fully peaceful protests on campuses . Even if you have no shits about Palestinians a presidential candidate saying attacking college students is fine .... that's gonna impact you voting for them or staying in your dorm room
3
u/RationalActivity Jewish Nov 08 '24
I tend to disagree with the idea that Harris would have lost regardless of the genocide. In another NYT article it was stated that “The Trump campaign’s research found that up-for-grabs voters were about six times as likely as other battleground-state voters to be motivated by their views of Israel’s war in Gaza.” https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/21/us/politics/trump-harris-undecided-voters.html (published October 24th)
Her refusal to take a solid position on this issue and her pandering of suburban republicans led to her demise.
3
u/Rez-Boa-Dog Nov 08 '24
As much as I'd like Palestine to be such an importan issue fore americanvoters, I really dont think it is
2
u/tangycommie Nov 09 '24
We didn’t “sit on our hands”, we organized and voted for our local officials
1
u/MitchellCumstijn Nov 09 '24
I personally think right wing billionaires funding right wing candidates with incredible budgets to run endless attack ads in strategic swing states in October and said billionaires diversifying their portfolios by owning major media outlets that clamped down on endorsements and amped up and expanded right wing disinformation were the major reasons for the success of the GOP, not so much what the Dems did and didn’t do. The GOP’s only strategy hinged on a four year lie that the election was stolen and rigged.
-7
-10
u/Logic411 Nov 08 '24
I think it’s beginning to dawn on people that they just may have jumped the gun and are beginning to squirm. Well you cannot blame Harris for your vote or failure to do so on Harris. No matter how hard you try. We warned you all. Dearborn and Hamtramck knowingly voted Trump, bibis best friend into full power, all three branches…
•
u/AutoModerator Nov 08 '24
Remember the human & be courteous to others. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.