r/JewsOfConscience • u/Roy4Pris Zionism is a waste of Judaism • Sep 07 '24

News Jake Tapper tweets that people protesting his colleague Dana Bash are antisemitic. Max Blumenthal absolutely eviscerates him in response

https://x.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1832196541735657532
208 Upvotes

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14

u/kimonoko Reconstructionist Sep 07 '24

This particular exchange to one side, it depresses me that Max Blumenthal/GZ gets airtime in this sub. We've got to be more discerning than that, folks. We're not going to find liberation by allying with a guy who denies China's oppression of the Uyghurs, denies chemical attacks by Assad, and spreads misinformation in Russia's favor with regard to Ukraine (in addition to regularly appearing on RT).

Blumenthal is not our friend.

(Side note: honestly had no idea Dana Bash is Jewish.)

11

u/ArmyOfMemories Jewish Anti-Zionist Sep 07 '24

Why wouldn't they get airtime here?

Just because they might be wrong on other issues (the ones you mentioned)?

Journalists can be wrong, and they often are.

People have no problem citing mainstream corporate media, like the NYT, despite them cheer-leading the Iraq War and their biased coverage of I/P.

Blumenthal is not our friend.

Ugh, this is hive-mind mentality.

Let people think for themselves.

12

u/Roy4Pris Zionism is a waste of Judaism Sep 07 '24

I must admit I did not know those things. Hmm, must be more cautious. Thanks for raising.

5

u/Artistic-Vanilla-899 Non-Jewish Ally Sep 07 '24

Yep just like Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson. Don't forget..what's his name the kkk grand wizard of hogwarts guy that loves trump and trump won't repudiate

2

u/kimonoko Reconstructionist Sep 07 '24

Hey no worries at all. It's impossible to track all of the goons on social media/the internet.

5

u/ArmyOfMemories Jewish Anti-Zionist Sep 07 '24

Max is not a goon, he's a great journalist and cares about the Palestinians.

He's lived in Gaza, has friends there, made a documentary and book about Israel's persecution of Gaza, etc.

-3

u/catscrapss Anti-Zionist Ally Sep 07 '24

The smears worked on you then

1

u/murderouspangolin Sep 08 '24

He's mostly on the $ around these things too.

8

u/DCF10 Sep 07 '24

“The enemy of my enemy is my friend.”

Max made excellent points to raise awareness of a mainstream Zionist propagandists lies to deserve the “airtime” and you chose to be depressed because he’s an imperfect ally.

You have valid criticisms of Max but I disagree that he should not be considered potential friend who could help bring about liberation for the Palestinians through indicting Zionist propaganda, simply bc he bought Chinese/Russian propaganda.

You cannot build an intersectional movement capable of real change by gatekeeping anyone who doesn’t meet your “standards of truthfulness”.

I just think you shouldn’t be depressed but grateful that there are brave people willing to stand and rebuke powerful genocide apologists, even if they aren’t on the same page on every global incidence of oppression.

Regardless, thank you for bringing additional context about Max

6

u/ArmyOfMemories Jewish Anti-Zionist Sep 07 '24

Max is a good journalist. He can simply be wrong on the issues people are upset with him about.

That doesn't discredit all his work on I/P.

8

u/kimonoko Reconstructionist Sep 07 '24

“The enemy of my enemy is still my enemy." ~ Drago Museveni

I think liberation movements have no place for allies of fascist and dictatorial regimes, personally. With respect, this is how charlatans and sometimes blatant antisemites like Fuentes or Red-Brown fascists like Caitlin Johnstone find their way into our spaces and rot them from the inside.

Good episode about why it's so crucial to remain vigilant about entryism and misinformation (in the context of environmental orgs but it applies broadly) over at "12 Rules for What?"

11

u/ArmyOfMemories Jewish Anti-Zionist Sep 07 '24

First of all, the Palestine solidarity movement is not a monolith.

It doesn't have to cater to your statements implying ideological purity.

Palestinian factions are deeply flawed, because they're only human. I've seen people here, in an anti-Zionist sub, criticize the various factions to varying degrees (from taking issue with the term 'resistance' as opposed to terrorism, to defending them wholesale, to defending with caveats, etc.).

And historically that's been the case in general with Palestine solidarity - there are basic liberals who support Palestine and far-left 'tankies' who support Palestine, with everything in between.

I've seen users here hate on Within Our Lifetime or even the BDS movement.

We have had an influx of users in the sub since 10/7 - and not all of them are anti-Zionist.

We have a range of views here.

And no one is fit to say 'we only represent the Palestine solidarity movement'.

Discounting Max, based on his views on other issues is nonsense.

1

u/murderouspangolin Sep 08 '24

Allies come from all corners. You can't gatekeep the movement with elitist and liberal litmus tests. It's divisive and unhelpful to cancel the GZ and others with misinformation around ties to dictatorial regimes and fascism. Fuentes - fair enough, he's openly antisemetic should be disregarded

3

u/Ok_Editor_710 Non-denominational Sep 08 '24

I beg your pardon, but which dictatorial and fascist regime is Max Blumenthal an ally of?

4

u/BlackHumor Sep 09 '24

The Assad regime and Putin's Russia, to name two.

-3

u/Ok_Editor_710 Non-denominational Sep 09 '24

So just cause you don't agree with his reporting on those two issues means he's a supporter of "fascist and dictatorial regimes", eh?

You're making accusations without evidence, literally a page from the Zionist playbook.

5

u/BlackHumor Sep 09 '24

Okay, if you want evidence, try the sources in this article.

-1

u/Ok_Editor_710 Non-denominational Sep 10 '24

Seen it before. All that junk on wikipedia are smears. There's actually no evidence that he's shilling for any of those Governments like Jake Tapper is shilling for Israel.

If Wikipedia is your trusted source you needn't even bother.

I have read numerous hit pieces on Max Blumenthal and all of them are just that, hit pieces.

If there were evidence of any of the stuff you guys allege about Blumenthal I wouldn't ask you to find it--know that rule about lawyers not asking questions they don't know the answer to.

5

u/hereiam1ceagain Non-Jewish Ally Sep 07 '24

Yes, we Syrians do not like him, Aaron Mate or Greyzone. For me, Syria is my litmus test regarding credibility.

-2

u/Ok_Editor_710 Non-denominational Sep 08 '24

Pity...I would have thought Genocide is your litmus test...but to each her/his own.

5

u/bearoscuro Non-Jewish Ally Sep 09 '24

What a bizarre, extremely unempathetic thing to say to someone directly affected by that regime. Would you say this type of thing to someone in person, out of curiosity?

0

u/Ok_Editor_710 Non-denominational Sep 09 '24

Yes.

Genocide should be all our litmus test. Our non-negotiable red line. I have contempt for those who think there's a more pressing matter than stopping genocide.

I have no idea who you are, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're a victim of "that regime" cause I'm fair. You on the other hand by piling on in the character assassination of a Journalist without proof are incredibly unfair.

Being a victim of "that regime" does not entitle you to pile on in the character assassination of anyone you disagree with--without proof.

If you think about it you'd realize this sub is dedicated to exposing a group of people known as Zionists who feel because their ancestors were the victims of "Nazi regime" they are entitled to lie and kill with impunity.

Like most on this sub I don't agree 100% with Max Blumenthal on every issue 100%. He's wrong sometimes and he's right on a whole lot but before I'd join in the collective character assassination against him I'd make sure I have at least one credible fact pointing to his guilt.

Everyone is entitled to proof of guilt before we smear them on a public forum. I don't think there's anything "bizarre" about seeking proof of guilt.

3

u/bearoscuro Non-Jewish Ally Sep 09 '24

Ok. I appreciate the sincere response. I'm not Syrian myself, but I have a few Syrian friends, and my family history is also partially of escaping a far less horrible regime than Assad's. I think it's very silly to try and build any sort of consensus around "sorry about this murderous and repressive government that displaced and hurt you, but, suck it up and don't criticize that, we're all anti-genocide here and what happened to you is irrelevant." It's absolutely unfair to ask that of people, and will just alienate them. I would recommend not saying that to anybody irl lmao.

I don't think it's character assassination to point out when a public figure journalist is wrong, and honestly the idea of "if they're antizionist, they must be supported and platformed without any criticism," is very odd. By that metric, all those neonazi-adjacent people who hate Israel for the wrong reasons are ok too? What's the line?

-1

u/Ok_Editor_710 Non-denominational Sep 10 '24

But you haven't pointed out that he's wrong... You've pointed out that you dislike him and insinuated that somehow he's shilling for the Assad regime.

I'm still waiting for proof from you and anybody else on here that he's sucking up to Assad.

So far all I've gotten from you and anyone else smearing him is silly galloping from thing to another.

Where is your evidence?

1

u/bearoscuro Non-Jewish Ally Sep 10 '24

I'm not interested in defending someone who was trying to spread disinformation about chemical weapons attacks against civilians, sorry. The Grayzone is also known for having published AI-generated articles with fake sources. This is pretty common knowledge and easy to look up.

I'm not going to litigate back and forth on every minutia of Blumenthal's career, I don't care that much about him and don't follow it in depth because I don't find him a particularly credible source on most topics. I think this is a weird hill to die on to protect his honour. He has solid reporting and coverage on Gaza, but that doesn't mean he's a saint and everyone needs to like him.

1

u/lilleff512 Jewish Sep 10 '24

On top of all of the other problems with Blumenthal, he's now gotten to the point where he's trafficking in neo-nazi style antisemitism: https://x.com/PostLeftWatch/status/1822824456840204668

"I used to think 'Zionist Occupied Government' was an antisemitic term. Now I'm forced to see it as a pretty accurate description of the reality we live in as one nation under ZOG."

If we want to be taken seriously when we say that "anti-Zionism is not antisemitism," then we can't be platforming people who are engaging in such blatant antisemitism.

1

u/ArmyOfMemories Jewish Anti-Zionist Sep 11 '24

'Zionist Occupied Government' was an antisemitic term

This is actually the reason I quit all my subs on my old account.

A Palestinian friend of mine and co-mod conveyed this expression in another way (I think he said our government was occupied by Zionists) to me directly in a hostile comment that opened with 'the difference between our people' and blah blah blah.

I had wondered aloud whether the al-Ahli hospital bombing might have been caused by an errant Hamas rocket. I was just spitballing, and it was a very stream-of-consciousness comment in which I also said 'but then again, the Israeli government lies constantly' and made a reference to the Qana massacre.

Still, that was't enough to allay whatever anxieties he was having - but I later found out he had lost family in Gaza. He only said so after I cursed him out.

My so-called friends didn't say a damn thing. Actually one of the other people in our shared Discord did say something, 'the audacity!' (directed at me, for accusing this guy of being antisemitic for saying a dogwhistle).

The person who took his side is a White woman, who knew nothing about this issue 6 months prior (at the time this was Oct. 2023) despite pushing 50.

That being said, all this time later, I really don't think antisemitic canards make sense forever. Some certainly stand the test of time, because they are so archaic and/or cartoonish in their logic (i.e. religious-motivated antisemitism). Some are repeatedly misused by pro-Israel advocates (i.e. criticizing Israel is blood libel with extra steps).

Is it anti-[insert religious identity] to think America has 'puppet governments'? Is it anti-[some combination of American and Israeli identity] to think the PA is a bantustan of America and Israel?

How is 'puppet government' fundamentally different from saying a nationalist political ideology dictates our government? It can be wrong and simplistic but 'hateful'? It's primarily an ugly thing to say because it's connected to a hateful group.

When I reflect upon my ex-friend's comment to me, I don't know if he meant it in an antisemitic way. I think he and I weren't getting along and he saw an opportunity to lash out. I felt it was antisemitic, because of everything else he had written in his comment and because it was directed at me - one of the most openly anti-Zionist Jewish moderators on Reddit at that time.

I added him to rPalestine, pushed for him to be on rPublicFreakout, etc. and he knows how much shit I got for speaking up for Palestinian human rights. So, when he opened his comment with 'the difference between our people' - I lost all patience.

In any case, I don't think Max is a Nazi for using that expression.

Antisemitism to me is prejudice against Jewish people because they are Jewish. That's why I felt my ex-friend's comment was antisemitic.

The canard he conveyed adjacently was the trigger, but the more I read his comment, it was simply the fact that he'd say anything like that to me at all.

I think canards are a good way to 'take the temperature' (to borrow a phrase from Dr. Kenneth Stern) - but I don't know if they are, in and of themselves, always accurate (aside from the aforementioned, cartoonish/simplistic/archaic examples).

2

u/gmbxbndp Jewish Communist Sep 07 '24

Think of activism in the same way you think of your workplace: your co-workers' opinions outside of what it is you are assigned to do simply do not matter at all. When you show up for your shift at the factory, you don't refuse to work on the line because the worker next to you has ridiculous and harmful views on vaccination. You're there to make widgets, not to make friends. You don't have to like the guy to work with him. You can straight up hate him if you want to. But you're still going to work with him because that's the only way this job gets done.

When the concern is Israel/Palestine, a potential ally's views outside of that arena are wholly irrelevant. If you could generate a list of every single belief that you hold, I'm sure I would find all sorts that I object to, but if they have nothing to do with the task at hand, then arguing about them is a purely self-serving exercise.

3

u/bearoscuro Non-Jewish Ally Sep 07 '24

I don't think that's a fair attitude to have... at a certain point, if people's views are repellent enough, they will drive away many more people who feel unsafe around them. It's not really fair for people affected by Assad's regime to have to be told "well, just suck it up." Blumenthal's statement is decent and he does have an ethical stance on Palestine, but that shouldn't absolve him from criticism for other stuff.

-2

u/PatrickMaloney1 Jewish Sep 07 '24 edited Sep 07 '24

Right? I had to double check to see what sub I was looking at when I saw that name. He's a nutjob imo

10

u/ArmyOfMemories Jewish Anti-Zionist Sep 07 '24

He can be wrong on other issues and be right on Israel/Palestine.

No one has to be ideologically pure to be heard.

1

u/Ok_Editor_710 Non-denominational Sep 08 '24

Why is he a nut job?

4

u/PatrickMaloney1 Jewish Sep 08 '24

His reporting on Russia and Syria is apologetic in a way that, to me, really makes me wonder if he is paid by Moscow or something. What is going on in Israel/Palestine is not hard to understand. He is not the sole speaker of truth on Gaza. Frankly I find his Russia and Syria stances to be a liability to anti-Zionism. In the same way that I am quite aligned with RFK Jr. on climate change but little else, I do not need to be aligned with nor entertain Blumenthal's voice on this topic given his other associations.

-1

u/Ok_Editor_710 Non-denominational Sep 08 '24

Just like I thought...innuendos and righteous indignation.

In other words you got nothing factual to tell us about Max Blumenthat

If Blumenthal was taking Russian money without disclosing it upfront the U.S. Government that he has made a habit of exposing would have arrested him as unregistered foreign agent by now like they did they folks who were bankrolling Dave Rubin and Tim Poole's unwitting shilling for Russia, last week.

Even if he was being paid by Russia it wouldn't make his reporting less valid. America and Europe are filled with people shilling for a foreign country named Israel without registration and none of them are getting indicted or having rumors spread about them like you're doing about Max.

Everything we know about Russia/Ukraine and Syria are mostly fed to us by the mainstream media...same ones spoon feeding us lies about Gaza. If they can spoon feed us lies about Gaza what makes you think they won't spoon feed us lies about Venezuela and Russia/Ukraine. On Syria, it's a given that they are not telling us the full truth cause it's about Israel. U.S. involvement in Syrai is about Israel and that's a topic it's hard for me to believe you think the U.S. and allies have been 100% truthful. And don't tell me we should take CNN, MSNBC, WAPO, NYT and Fox's words on what went down Syria at face value.

6

u/PatrickMaloney1 Jewish Sep 08 '24

Okay bro

0

u/Ok_Editor_710 Non-denominational Sep 08 '24

Not Okay, actually.

I'm not your Bro or Sis either.

I simply want to know why you think it's cool to smear another person on a public forum without a shred of factual evidence? Your attack on Blumenthal are the same ones Zionist and their symphatizers have used to smear him cause he won't stop questioning the official narrative.

0

u/murderouspangolin Sep 07 '24 edited Sep 08 '24

Ugh these are typical neoliberal talking points that the mainstream uses to discredit the Grayzone journalists. He denied that there is a Uighur "genocide" (because we see what a genocide really looks like now). The "chemical attacks" in Syria were a false flag event by the very dodgy "white helmets" to try and draw the West in against Assad. Regarding the Ukraine proxy war the mainstream media is finally talking about Western provocation and the origins of the war. If this current genocide has taught us anything it's that we can't expect the western liberal media to tell us the truth on these matters of foreign conflict and western hegemony.