r/JewsOfConscience • u/sar662 Jewish • Jul 11 '24
Opinion Opinion | A Gaza cease-fire agreement appears within reach
It's not a done deal by any stretch of the imagination but I'm glad to see there is hope again.
The key things that have shifted seem to be * (So far unspecified) Arab states have agreed to back an interim government which is not Hamas, not israel, is not the Palestinian authority (but has ties to the PA) * Egypt saying they will work to block new smuggling tunnels between Egypt and Gaza. * Both sides agreed to a UN proposal that once a ceasefire begins it will continue indefinitely as long as both parties are engaged in further negotiation.
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u/NathMorr Jewish Jul 11 '24
Didn't Netanyahu say he would only accept a partial ceasefire? Did he change his mind or did that position only apply to the current stage of ceasefire agreements? Either way, I'm very cautiously optimistic about this news.
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u/sar662 Jewish Jul 11 '24
I was also surprised but the comment I saw was that both sides agreed to the framework. _fingers crossed _
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u/noam99 Jul 11 '24
(So far unspecified) Arab states have agreed to back an interim government which is not Hamas, not israel, is not the Palestinian authority (but has ties to the PA)
Egypt saying they will work to block new smuggling tunnels between Egypt and Gaza.
This is a complete betrayal of the Palestinian resistance. Of course I hope for a ceasefire...but this sounds like a way for the US to install a proxy government in Gaza and weaken the resistance's ability to engage in future armed struggle—which will be necessary as long as there is colonial domination over Palestine. I'd find it agreeable if those were red lines for Hms.
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u/sar662 Jewish Jul 11 '24
On the first point, would it matter who the states are the back this interim government? Regardless, I understand the issue you are raising.
On the second point, why do you feel this is a betrayal or a problem at all? All the legal goods, in and out, as well as any aid goes through the border crossings. The tunnels are only for illegal shit and are heavily used by Hamas for weapons. I am very happy for them to be shut down.
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u/noam99 Jul 11 '24 edited Jul 11 '24
If the US and Israel are angling to force their own puppet regime in Gaza, then I don't want Hamas's access to supplies and weapons to be blocked. Egypt should be a regional ally to the resistance, not facilitating an embargo that hampers its military abilities. History indicates that the best way to create enduring peace between rebel groups and governments/occupying powers is to legitimize the rebels politically within the government. This is how Colombian presidents Juan Manual Santos brokered a ceasefire with the FARC in 2016.
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u/sar662 Jewish Jul 11 '24
If the government in Gaza is a political legitimate entity, they can bring their weapons in over the border with Egypt like normal countries do. I want a normal Palestinian government and they can have a military and an army. I don't want Hamas to have weapons. Please God Hamas will shrivel up and die.
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u/noam99 Jul 11 '24
Countless Palestinians view Hamas as their legitimate government and they function as a government in many of the same ways as the "normal governments" of other countries.
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u/sar662 Jewish Jul 11 '24
There are countless North Koreans who swear fealty to their supreme leader. That doesn't change the fact that Kim Jong Un is a ruthless murdering dictator.
There are Palestinians who view Hamas illegitimate government and there are those who don't. The overwhelming majority of Western democracies have taken a careful look at Hamas and decided they are terrorists. I'm not an expert so I'm not going to form my own opinion. I'm ok trusting those guys who do that stuff for a living in their assessment of Hamas.
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u/noam99 Jul 11 '24
You're confused: you see, its the so-called "western democracies" who have done all the lying in pursuit of the extermination of Palestinians and it's Hamas and the Palestinian resistance who have proven time and time again who the real terrorists are.
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u/sar662 Jewish Jul 11 '24
Seems we disagree as to how to view Hamas.
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u/noam99 Jul 11 '24
why do you think hamas is bad
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u/sar662 Jewish Jul 11 '24
Not really the topic of this post but the short version would be probably because of the murdering. I'm not so into it.
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u/justvisiting7744 Caribbean Sephardic Marxist Jul 11 '24
everything you know about dprk (and hamas too) is informed by imperialist media oligarchs who benefit from the subjugation of the global south dawg😭😭😭!!! the majority of countries outside of the west (whose populations constitute the majority of the world) dont even recognize hamas as a terrorist organization, you just care about the “western democracies’” opinion more because your western conditioning has led you to dismiss the opinions of the rest of the world bro😭😭😭!!!
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u/sar662 Jewish Jul 11 '24
What's "south dawg"? Is that like up-dog but reversed?
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u/justvisiting7744 Caribbean Sephardic Marxist Jul 11 '24
meant it as in “global south, dawg”, might need to add a comma there #oopsies
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u/sar662 Jewish Jul 11 '24
Got it. I think we'll leave it as I disagree with you but I'm glad I understand what you said. Thank you.
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u/actsqueeze Jewish Anti-Zionist Jul 12 '24
Okay, well DPRK is bad, whether we’re being neg fed propaganda or not
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Jul 11 '24
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u/noam99 Jul 11 '24
Your obviously being facetious...it's moronic to conflate a struggle between faction groups with a regime change imposed by an imperial power. If you're implying that Palestinian were "better off" without Hamas...that's simply revisionist history.
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Jul 11 '24 edited Jul 11 '24
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u/noam99 Jul 11 '24
Thanks for the clarity. Hamas's rise in popularity and effectiveness in confronting the colonial forces indicates to me that Palestinians see them as a more legitimate means to liberation than Fatah (or PLO at large). In that sense, one could argue the resistance is "better off" with Hamas as a leading voice and authority. One could argue Palestinians are "better off"—though I don't think that's up to me to do here. I think we could agree the rise of Hamas over the PLO obviously backfired for Israel; so of course I'm not suggesting there is one easy path to enduring peace with "regime change" (in the broad sense of the phrase) involved.
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u/PapaverOneirium Jul 11 '24
I’m pessimistic but god I hope this finally works.
Netanyahu is between a rock and a hard place and has to choose from, at least to him, only bad options. Ending the war will anger his coalition, likely trigger elections, the continuation of his corruption prosecution, and so on. But the domestic and international pressure to end the war are both immense. Hezbollah continues to apply military pressure and claim they will do so until the Gaza siege ends. Despite the chest beating by some Israelis and supporters, an all out war with Hezbollah would be a disaster for Israel both militarily and geopolitically, even if they are able to “send Lebanon back to the Stone Age” as Gallant recently claimed.
So will he choose the option that costs him more personally but leads to an end to the war, or will he choose a path of solidifying his grasp on power by expanding it at the cost of countless more lives and more damage to Israel?
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u/Roy4Pris Zionism is a waste of Judaism Jul 12 '24
Nope. Netanyahu and the crazies on his right will nix any deal.
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u/sar662 Jewish Jul 12 '24
As I said, it's not a done deal but so far they're getting further than they have in the past.
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u/Roy4Pris Zionism is a waste of Judaism Jul 12 '24
I already feel bad for being so negative. I've just read too many Haaretz articles detailing how Netanyahu continues to work against the interests of peace, and the return of the hostages.
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u/Vivid24 Non-Jewish Ally Jul 13 '24
Whatever is best for the Palestinian people! Whatever God is out there, please bring an end to this and a true path to freedom.
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u/rumagin Jul 11 '24
This is not hope. Why would you say that when this is the same process that happens each month. Netanyahu and his Israeli state does not want a ceasefire. Until they shift there is no road to peace
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u/psly4mne Jewish Anti-Zionist Jul 11 '24
Don't trust "US officials" when they say a cease-fire deal is close. Last time they said that, the deal was that Israel would get all its demands met and then have the option to go right back to killing people.