NYC Dyke March Drama

[u/Ok_Item_3313]

The NYC Dyke March is being boycotted by many other organizations including Act Up NYC for putting out and subsequently deleting this statement. Thoughts?

Imma be real I don't really think this statement is bad at all, but I understand that others have read it as "all lives matter"-ing the genocide in Gaza. Would love to hear more takes.

[u/[deleted]]

This is not all lives mattering. People were killed. If they never addressed the deaths in October when it happened, it is appropriate to mention now. If they consistently mentioned hostages and Israelis over Palestinians that would be different. I think it's really sad that mentioning any Jewish death is offensive to people. But I also think it's very odd that there was not any statement about any of this until now, which isn't common for an LGBT institution. This is especially true because of how there is such high involvement of LGBT folks in activism for Palestine. This reminds me of when dyke marches in Canada used to ban pride flags with Stars of David on them. Is it necessary? Not at all. That's not what an Israeli flag is.

[u/theapplekid → u/[deleted]]

I don't think there's anything wrong with mentioning the Jewish deaths from October 7, but weren't like 900-1100 of the ~2800 people who died that day Jewish?

I think erasing the deaths of all the others to center the deaths of privileged group is a problem

[u/[deleted] → u/theapplekid]

I agree. That's definitely a problem. The whole thing is a tragedy. Just wanted to point out that the dyke march page mentioned Gaza several times and Palestinians as well. It feels like they used some generic phrases to "ease the reaction" of triggered Jews, but it backfired. I have honestly seen almost every single group that mentioned the deaths of anyone during this genocide be criticized. Sometimes for centering Jews too much, sometimes for not doing it enough . I feel like this is inconsequential. I don't think we need social media posts, especially this late after many other orgs have already posted the same exact thing one their pages. Jews who thought they wouldn't be safe need to understand why they feel this way and the dyke march organizers just need to assure people that all will be welcome. It's pretty simple. Making placating statements seems counter intuitive at this point, but I don't think it's all lives mattering.

[u/theapplekid → u/[deleted]]

OK but why single out "rising antisemitism"? There's rising Islamophobia. There's rising anti-Arabism.

It's like if they were organizing in the middle of BLM and some white people were concerned about growing hate for white people, and cops were concerned about growing hate for cops, and then they put out a statement addressing these concerns, without addressing the larger power dynamics that led to this. They need to come out strongly critical of Israel for it to not come across as pandering.

Imagine it's 1939, Jews are fleeing to the U.S. because of the rise of Hitler and Naziism. Many Americans of Germanic descenet are defending what's happening in Germany, while others disavow Naziism and Hitler. A few Americans of Germanic descent also become victims of rising tensions (despite some of them supporting the Jewish people who have been victimized, and protesting Germany's expansionism)

Let's pretend the captives in a Jewish ghetto managed to escape on October 7 1939, and killed a bunch of Germans, many who were civilians, as well as some foreign nationals and even some other Jews who were stealthing.

In the midst of this, let's pretend there was a massive dyke march in the U.S., and its organizers publish a statement in solidarity with the Jews, and decrying Naziism and the actions of Germany.

Some Germans who identify as Aryan feel uncomfortable attending because of fears of anti-Aryan prejudice and fears due to the October 7 attack which resulted in the death of many Aryans (but even more Jews). Would you think it's OK if the protest organizers publish this in a clarifying statment?

We acknowledge that our delay to publicly acknowledge the (Jewish) attack of October 7 1939 also caused harm. We mourn the senseless loss of Aryan life which occurred as a result of the October 7 attacks

Those attacks didn't happen in a vacuum, and there's a good chance many, if not most, of the Germans expressing fear in that scenario are Nazis. Why would people at the march have a problem with Germans who are marching against rising Naziism?

Speaking of this rally, how many Jews do you know who are anti-zionists and would be uncomfortable going to the rally without the second statement? As an anti-zionist Jew myself I don't want the organizers of other social justice events making statements that pander to the Zionists in any way, shape or form. If they're going to put out a statement like that they need to make it clear that Zionism is an evil, unacceptable ideology, and they're specifically welcoming Jews amongst their ranks, but Zionism is an unacceptably hateful ideology.

If a loudly racist white church was bombed, they can come out against racism and violence without making it about "growing anti-white racism" and how white people should feel comfortable to attend. Like why are we even conflating white people with this super-racist church in the first place?

I realize it's not exactly the same because Jews are a minority in the U.S. and also the target of discriminatory attitudes, but perhaps white people will be in the future also as demographics continue to shift, that doesn't mean white privilege will fully disappear and doesn't mean we should stop acknowledging it.

[u/ArmyOfMemories → u/[deleted]]

Can you recall the source for your claim that organizers of Pride marches have excluded the flags you mention?

Pink-washing is a problem in the LGBTQ+ community and it's great they are handling it.

There's a difference between merely existing (as you seem to imply) versus a pro-Israel organization and/or individuals attempting to obfuscate the state of Israel's humanitarian record by interjecting itself in progressive messaging.