Ben-Gurion debunking himself that the indigenous Palestinians are the Jewish nation who weren't mistreated by Arabs. Later accusing them for "being forced to avoid their faith".

[u/Aljameel1]

[u/specialistsets]

What is the contradiction between the statements? This was a popular theory among early Zionists, that the fellahin were fully or partially descended from ancient Jews who were forced to convert to Islam after the Arab conquest.

[u/Aljameel1 → u/specialistsets]

What is the contradiction between the statements? This was a popular

"was"

were forced to convert to Islam after the Arab conquest.

'The Arab (......) did not touch the local population.'

among early Zionists,

Both statements for the same zionist, first one as a "cute" refugee, the second one as a militant settler spreading Hasbara.

[u/specialistsets → u/Aljameel1]

The first statement underlined in red is about expulsion and/or murder, the second statement underlined in blue is about being forced to convert. I personally don't believe this to be true, but it was indeed a popular theory at the time.

[u/Aljameel1 → u/specialistsets]

the second statement underlined in blue is about being forced to convert

The last blued words ' to remain on their land' contradict the first expulsion mentioned in the first red one.

And being forced, contradicting the first red one 'did not touch the local population'

[u/specialistsets → u/Aljameel1]

The theory is that they weren't immediately expelled or killed but were later forced to convert to Islam. I don't know if this is supported by modern historians, it was just a pet theory at the time. There are many real issues with Ben Gurion, this isn't one of them.

[u/Aljameel1 → u/specialistsets]

but were later forced to convert to Islam

• Just a side note: In Islam there is nothing as "forcing" someone to convert to Islam. It is already forbidden and there are categories of laws in Islam about how to deal with non Muslims citizens. So forcing them to be Muslims would make nonsense of the existence of these laws in the first place.

• The mentioned era 7th century, the Muslims as a 40 years old nation, conquered in a few years both 'thousands of years old' Roman and Persian empires, under the leadership of Omar. The Persian, Roman leaders once they were captives they know that according to Islam it is strictly forbidden to kill a new Muslim as his previous sins Turns to be good deeds. So they announce they are Muslims as a tricky way to avoid the deserved punishment of their betrayal acts. One of them did that, later assisinated Omar.

Here is a brief story according to the historian.

In contrast, the Arab tradition holds that Hormuzan, when first brought as a prisoner before the Rashidun Caliph Umar, was asked to convert. He refused, and so Umar called his executioner to kill him as he represented the last of the Persian leadership. At that point Hormuzan asked for some water, claiming that it would be cruel to kill him while thirsty. Umar had water brought, and upon Hormuzan obtaining a pledge of safety until he'd finished drinking he threw the cup to the ground. He then asked the Caliph if he would keep his word, and Umar agreed and spared his life. Immediately afterwards, Hormuzan converted to Islam, explaining that he had not wanted it said that he'd converted for fear of death.

[u/Aljameel1 → u/[deleted]]

Maimonides

Are you talking about Maimonides the same one who fled to Cairo the capital of the Islamic kingdom in the 12 century and was trusted to be the personal healthcare doctor for the King 'Salah elden' who defeated the crusades and freed Jerusalem from the crusades invasion and allowed the Jewish to come back?

Cordoba

Not sure if you know that the Spanish Inquisition was basically a genocide against the Muslims of Cordoba.... Unless you think Cordoba survived.

kill him as he represents the last of the Persian leadership.

Not sure why you are extracting the words out of its context. And, it is obvious that though he didn't convert to Islam in the first place, he was pardoned.... So it is obvious that he was offered a 'license' according to Islamic terminology. Not sure which old or modern history the kings of enemies were pardoned once they were defeated.

[u/Aljameel1 → u/[deleted]]

No I mean Maimonidies Goldfarb. We used to be neighbors.

I tried to research that but find nothing. So kindly share a reference so I can answer you.

Islam doesn't allow for forced conversion what are you talking about?

Islam strictly forbids enforcing beliefs, it is the basic core of Islam. Islam isn't responsible about the behavior of individuals belonging to political regimes even if it 'happens to have Islamic identity'. Believe me if there is something like that in Islam I won't sugarcoat it and I won't even try to hide it. It is the basics.

but it's also specified that he was killed because he wouldn't convert

He got the license, he refused it, and finally was pardoned because of a cup of water. Later he murdered the one who pardoned him...! If Islam was really about "killing", then Umar would have stayed alive if he did so.

Not to mention that the knife was poisoned and that Omar gave Orders that if he stayed alive then no one should touch his murderers.

Imagine if jews were pardoning Hitler for a cup of water...

[u/Aljameel1 → u/[deleted]]

Though I have no examples but If that is the case then it isn't Islam nor a Muslim 'even if he said so' .The same with Zionism doesn't represent Jughdism, Nazism doesn't represent Christianity. It is even prevented in Islam to kill an ant.

[u/[deleted] → u/Aljameel1]

"In Islam there is nothing as "forcing" someone to convert to Islam. It is already forbidden and there are categories of laws in Islam about how to deal with non Muslims citizens."

I mean traditionally it was either convert, pay the jizya, or die. To my mind that is force. I recognize that many Muslims today don't believe this, but it is how Islamic empires largely governed.

[u/Aljameel1 → u/[deleted]]

Not sure where you are living, but in the U.S if you didn't pay taxes you would expect the FBI...

I mean traditionally it was either convert, pay the jizya, or die.

Jizya, anf Zaka are like taxes. Zaka is paid by Muslims, and Jizya 'much much lower than Zaka' paid by non Muslims and they are pardoned for joining the army so they don't have to fight against people with their beliefs. Sure the heavy weight champion Muhammad Ali would have preferred to pay Jizya than being sent to jail for refusing to fight innocents in Vetinam according to his 'islamic beliefs' , yet his peaceful beliefs weren't respected.

I recognize that many Muslims today don't believe this, but it is how Islamic empires largely governed.

Or, I recognize that many non Muslims today don't believe it wasn't like this.