Seen it all now

[u/Welcomefriend2023]

On another discussion on social media, I was accused by a zionist of antisemitism bc I use Yiddish words in my speech.

As a senior who was raised speaking Yiddish as a 2nd language by my bubbe and zayde, both of whom immigrated from Tsarist Russia in the early 1900s, I find it bizarre to be accused of "using antisemitic tropes" bc I use Yiddish in my speech!

[u/Abdullah_super]

I’m not Jewish. But in the past 6 month I realized you can’t keep victimizing yourself and throughout historical events and expect the people to behave normally.

The current situation has showed so many instances were Zionists are deliberately and embarrassingly trying to fake a situation were they were hurt or felt offended by stuff as simple as seeing the Palestinian flag or listening to specific words like the chants that was banned.

Its almost as if the entire community had agreed on one thing which is to use victimazation as a weapon to gain support.

Multiple videos are showing people faking being hit by a Palestinian flag, and tons of other videos showing pro Israeli people provoking pro Palestinian protesters to attack them.

I’d say the must be something culturally generating this behaviour and don’t get me wrong, I’m just analyzing what I’m seeing, and I don’t think this events are coordinated or that those people are taking orders to behave this way.

Thats why I think it’s something cultural. What is unique about zionism that make its individuals behave like that. It’s definitely not normal.

[u/Welcomefriend2023 → u/Abdullah_super]

I was raised zionist in the 60s and stayed one reluctantly until last October (I say "reluctantly" because over the decades I had been learning of crimes committed by the zionist govt against other Jews, like the Yemenite Jewish child scandal of the 50s).

But one thing I have noticed: the zionists seem to have become much more hardened over the decades. In the 70s most zionists were establishment; the JDL were the crazy ones and they were shunned by establishment Jews.

Did the internet do this to them? I just don't know.

[u/boyyhowdy → u/Welcomefriend2023]

Indigenous movements and movements for the liberation of people of color over the past several decades have made it much less acceptable in the West to kill and steal whatever you want from lesser, browner people. Obviously, this spells trouble for Zionism. So, Zionists dig in and become more hardline.

[u/meatbeater558 → u/boyyhowdy]

They also co-opt the language of these movements as well

[u/Roy4Pris → u/boyyhowdy]

This. I am a 50-something New Zealander of European descent. Straight up murder, land theft etc happened but not on the scale of the Americas, Australia etc. Nowadays the vast majority accepts the terrible harms done to Māori, the effects of which are still painfully evident today. Reparations are an ongoing process. Anyway, my point is that there has been an enormous shift in societal attitudes in my lifetime. Around the world, we accept the brutality and injustice of our ancestors. That our privileges came at the expense others. Zionists are not prepared to do the same, and use antisemitism as a cudgel against any criticism or encouragement to catch up with the Western world’s acceptance of our historic crimes.

[u/meatbeater558 → u/Abdullah_super]

I think what they've done is adopted a lot of the language from left wing groups but stripped them of any substance. Feeling unsafe for example is a very important concept but it always needs to be accompanied with the reason why. I'm sure the white woman who got Emmett Till murdered felt unsafe around Black people, but she had no valid reason to. Then there's words are violent or incite violence. This can absolutely be true and often is, but again there needs to be a reason why. The LGBT movement has made a lot of progress proving how "mere words" can, at worse, lead to murder. Because it's been incredibly well documented and proven most people just trust the word of someone in the LGBT community when they express concern with someone's language. These Zionists demand that same level of trust with none of the proof or documentation. 

[u/Roy4Pris → u/meatbeater558]

Wow great point. I tried to read some hysterical garbage in Commentary magazine citing a five or six of what they called antisemitic attacks in America over the last couple of weeks. I would instantly condemn the physical or verbal attacks if they actually were antisemitic, but by the vague use of language it seems pretty likely they were actually comments against Israel’s brutal war on Gaza.

[u/meatbeater558 → u/Roy4Pris]

They treat the word antisemitism like it's a Harry Potter magic spell and not a word people immediately respond to because of the centuries of horrors included in its definition 

[u/Sea-Value-0 → u/Abdullah_super]

The common thread I've seen in this cultural mentality is simply among privileged, establishment colonialists. A modern movement similar to Zionism in their behavior, moral corruption, idol worship, ignorance, racism, and ease of violence would be the MAGA movement in the US. It's the "I'm special and deserve all the power, wealth, and consideration" paired with the desire and ability to maim, kill, and decimate those who oppose them, or those they view as being beneath them. Essentially, they are fighting tooth and nail for a world in which it's their narrow-minded way or the highway. They've completely lost the plot.

[u/yungsemite → u/Abdullah_super]

I’m not Jewish. But in the past 6 month I realized you can’t keep victimizing yourself and throughout historical events and expect the people to behave normally.

Thats why I think it’s something cultural.

When are you saying Jews were victimizing themself? This whole thing is a red flags for me. Is there any other group you would feel comfortable saying that there is something cultural about them that makes them victimize themself through historical events?

The results of my checking your comment history:

You’re active in r/conspiracy on antisemitic threads, and you regularly deny both contemporary and historical antisemitism.

Once you start to share this as a proof that Arabs has mistreated jews in the last 1000 years, I’m sure you’re not knowledgeable on this topic or willing to seriously think about it.

Tbh. I never take antisemitic news seriously …

Can we not have people saying that people are ‘culturally inclined’ to ‘playing the victim’ on a Jewish subreddit? What the fuck is that about?

[u/Abdullah_super → u/yungsemite]

If you looked closely I mentioned Zionism not Judaism as I know someone will try and make this argument that I’m saying this because of my antisemitic nature because. I’m a muslim.

I’m active like all other people in the region (I’m from Egypt) because this war is happening 300 Km away from where I live. I don’t think your attempt to stalk my account made you really understand why I’m active on conflict related topics.

In fact I have valid reason to have a say or two about whats going on more than most of people on this sub.

From what I understand is that Jewish populations are scattered around the world and thats why I used zionism to describe the target population.

Now I should be trying to be defensive because I really don’t want to offend any Jewish people on this particular sub.

It should be a sub where I look for meaningful discussions with actual Jewish people who are interested in actual conversation where I will learn more about this community that is the centre of many things related with my region and interests.

But honestly I don’t have anything to say other than that I think this “Antisemitic” accusation you’re trying to accuse me of is an empty statement that has no meaning in reality anymore.

I live in a community that Jews loved peacefully till Israel was created and done the famous “Levon Operation” to force the Jews out to Israel and destroy Egypt’s relationship with US and Britain.

My mom always told me that her mother had Jewish neighbors and friends and they were as nice as our coptic Christians and we lived in a relative harmony till the Levon operation took place.

I don’t have any reason to hate Jews. But I have many reason to hate zionists who killed some relatives of mine in the 1967-1973 time period, also their other crimes in Palestine and Lebanon is something I always think of.

Thats what I really believe in. No hidden antisemitic beliefs inside my head.

I really can’t say anything other than that, hopefully non of the Jewish people here will think that I mean that Jewish culture is the reason people might be victimizing themselves, but I’m sure “culture” means lots of other stuff people here can speak about.

Btw I’m a muslim and I get this type of comments saying our culture or religion is violent and monstrous and I get angry too so I’m totally getting why you made this comment.

[u/yungsemite → u/Abdullah_super]

You’re saying Zionists on this sub, but your comment history says Jews.

What kind of nation is the victim almost all the time for 3000 years? It’s almost like they became addicted to this behaviour.

This idea of manufactured victimhood by Jews is something that is frequently mentioned and propagated by antisemites, which is why it set off red flags and made me check your comment history.

Additionally, you’ve repeated this several times in your comment history, that there was no antisemitism in Egypt and that the only reason that the Jews left was the Lavon affair. This is flatly untrue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1945_anti-Jewish_riots_in_Egypt

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Cairo_bombings

I absolutely understand why you’re active about Palestinian liberation online, I’m not criticizing you for that. I’m criticizing you for making light of antisemitism both today and historically and engaging with antisemitism on Reddit.

Edit: reorganized paragraphs for clarity

Edit: Egyptian blood libel case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fornaraki_affair

[u/Being-of-Dasein → u/yungsemite]

I'm Muslim, and I agree that we should be careful about how we approach the topic of “antisemitism” in this whole issue. The focus should very much be focused on the Zionist regime in Israel, but we should also be wary of the movement being co-opted by genuine Judeophobes (I use this term as it's more clear on anti-Jewish sentiment).

This includes well-intentioned people, who may not appreciate the distinction of Jewish people throughout history and the current history leading up to the Zionist movement.

I think with some Muslims, as they take their own faith so seriously, view the conflict through the lens of religion, i.e., Jews vs. Muslims, etc. However, I think this analytic is flawed as you can't understand the Zionist project without taking into account the role of colonialism, imperialism, and white supremacy. Hell, the founder of modern-day Zionism, Theodore Herzl, was pretty much completely secular and explicitly promoted Zionism as a colonial project. If you take religion as the lens through which to understand Zionism, you will not understand why it operates the way it does, and also the unique way in which it undermines Judaism itself.