r/wec • u/BlueBullRacing Alpine Elf Team ORECA 07 #36 • Jun 15 '24
Le Mans Both Alpines confirmed out of Le Mans Spoiler
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u/-Jack-The-Stripper Corvette Racing C8.R #63 Jun 15 '24
If they’re not going to build their own engine then they should do everything they can to get a Gibson from LMP2 and throw it in there. That thing is bullet proof and probably has a jabillion miles of data on it by now.
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u/Makalu Toyota Gazoo GR010 #7 Jun 15 '24
Yep, they ran it to like 10 podiums from 12 races in the A480, and before 2024 Mecachrome had done 1 WEC race with a 50% retirement rate, it was a bit of a stupid move from Alpine
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u/big_cock_lach United Autosports ORECA07 #22 Jun 16 '24
To be fair, most of those 12 races only had 4 cars racing, some only had 3, so getting a podium was to be expected. However, at least they were finishing.
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u/leedler Bentley 8-Speed #8 Jun 16 '24
stupid move from Alpine
Isn’t that just 90% of Alpine’s decisions?
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u/Rokexe Jun 15 '24
They can literaly get the V6 engine Nissan used for DPI in IMSA a few years ago. Apline is basically brothered to Nissan.
I still dont understand why they chose Mechachrome.
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u/-Jack-The-Stripper Corvette Racing C8.R #63 Jun 15 '24
I’m sure Mecachrome was the cheapest option, and people writing the checks will save a dollar whenever they can. It was such an awful move though. Gibson, Nissan, a fucking sticky note with “motor” scribbled on it in crayon… anything would have been a better choice.
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u/GloriousIncompetence JOTA Sport ORECA 07 #38 Jun 16 '24
Doesn’t Renault own some stake in Mechachrome? I could’ve sworn theres some kind of relationship there
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u/faceestrella Jun 16 '24
As far as I know, Mecachrome is owned partly by a French government investment fund and the majority by some sort of venture capital firm(?). And Renault is owned partly by the French government itself.
So yes but indirectly.
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u/FirstReactionShock Jun 15 '24
that engine sucked as well, alpine should consider using the compact V8 5.6L that nissan used in gt-r gt1
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u/fireinthesky7 Hendrick Motorsports Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 #24 Jun 16 '24
Something about using an LMP3 engine in a Hypercar doesn't entirely sit right.
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u/FirstReactionShock Jun 16 '24
what this suppose to mean? The racing tuned gt-r gt1 engine had already >600hp despite restrictors. The lmp3 version is just the stock road engine
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u/Jonnix44 Jun 16 '24
Probably because it is French and has a.similar.layout to the Acura/Honda.I agree,they should have used the proven Nissan or the Pipo V8 from the Glickenhaus.That.motor was very reliable.
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u/alexmlb3598 Audi R18 Jun 15 '24
...famous last words considering the recent LMP2 blow-up?
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u/-Jack-The-Stripper Corvette Racing C8.R #63 Jun 15 '24
Every LMP2 could blow up this race and the Gibson would still be one of the best endurance engines ever built. That thing has been beyond amazing, though not having to compete with any other makes certainly helps.
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u/Electronic_Parfait36 Jun 15 '24
Not really when you consider how many of them are in the field.
That V8 has a 90%+ reliability rate world wide. Remember the ENTIRE FIELD of lmp2s run that engine.
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u/Raymond_Racer Audi R8 #1 Jun 16 '24
Alternatively, if they want to keep it within the Renault-Nissan Alliance Family, get either the 2-Litre Turbo 4-Banger from Nissan's GT500 machines, use the old VRX30A LMP1 engine, or even take a Nissan GT-R's VR38DETT and tweak that for the race!
Hell, it's not like Renault aren't above using Nissan engines for their racecars anyway; they already used the VR38DETT in their old RS01 Cup Car which in itself was built off of LMP-based running gear like the Alpine LMDh!
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Jun 15 '24
[deleted]
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u/SatanSuxxx Jun 15 '24
Not good for marketing
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u/likeAdrug Jun 15 '24
I mean, Renault cars are not exactly known for reliability
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u/Ford_Faptor BMW Jun 15 '24 edited Jun 15 '24
Ehm, i would say the Renaults made the last 10 years are pretty damn solid. Sold so many used ones with no problems/warranty cases for the company.
There is a reason why the 1,5dCi is used by Mercedes, and the new Mercedes Citan is just a rebadged Renault.
PSA/Stellantis on the other hand? Lol
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u/BlueBullRacing Alpine Elf Team ORECA 07 #36 Jun 15 '24
It's great for marketing, their names are in people's mouths
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u/Vandirac Jun 16 '24
At this point they should play their last card and have Dacia run their sporting activities.
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u/ZucchiniMore3450 Jun 15 '24
Another 100 races plan?
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u/mac_attack09 Porsche Penske Motorsport 963 #6 Jun 15 '24
Once again, they got what they deserved. Should have just used a Gibson if they wanted to be lazy.........
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u/eradimark Porsche Jun 15 '24
Don't get what all the hate is for on Alpine and the Mecachrome engine. They should both be congratulated for pioneering the external combustion engine.
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u/XsStreamMonsterX Jun 16 '24
Nah, Ferrari already experimented with that in F1 and didn't like the results.
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u/eradimark Porsche Jun 16 '24
And Alpine said "hold my beer"
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u/XsStreamMonsterX Jun 16 '24
Renault's F1 operation is basically Ferrari at home (with home being Viry and Enstone).
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u/AvedaAvedez Jun 16 '24
To finish first in the race (ie win), you must first finish (be reliable enough to last the duration of the race).
Which the mecachrome engine has failed to do TWICE, at Spa and here LOL
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u/fastcooljosh Jun 15 '24
Everybody saw it coming from a mile away.
That engine was crap and I always had my doubts that Alpine despite their efforts in testing and changing stuff could change the fundamental weaknesses of that particular Engine.
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u/RINABAR Hendrick Motorsports Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 #24 Jun 15 '24 edited Jun 15 '24
They deadass had some good pace, very promising car, but a junk engine is a junk engine. Sticking to their reputation
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u/AdmiraalKroket Jun 15 '24
Good pace is meaningless if both cars are out with over 18 hours to go. If the engine dies after 20 hours then there is some hope the reliability can be improved, but this is just shockingly bad.
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u/Seyelerr Iron Dames Porsche 911 RSR-19 #85 Jun 15 '24
This one goes out to the guy who was arguing with me the other day that a formula engine is the best choice. Hope you’re doing well out there man.
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u/Rizzu_96 ByKolles Enso CLM P1.01 #4 Jun 15 '24
The problem is not that is a formula engine. The problem is that it is a formula engine that is known to be atrociously unreliable
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u/innovator97 Jun 16 '24
I wonder if that is the same person who commented "iTs gOod beCUz thEy MoDified it" in a previous post.
Like dude, using a shit as a base will not make it better.
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u/Seyelerr Iron Dames Porsche 911 RSR-19 #85 Jun 16 '24
I do believe you’re right. I’m too lazy to check but that sounds familiar. Something about turbos. As if that makes it more reliable.
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u/ashyjay Jun 15 '24
They would have been better off stealing their F1 engine than sticking with this Mechachrome POS.
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u/emkdfixevyfvnj Jun 15 '24
If only they were allowed to run the f1 engine.
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u/fastcooljosh Jun 16 '24
Not even the ICE?
Sure the Hybrid part has to be modified/changed, but technically it should be possible to use the 1.6 V6 or am I trippin?
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u/Mates03w Jun 16 '24
Technically yes, but they'd have to change the fuel flow to meet the required energy per stint, and tune it down to the lower power output. But F1 engine is build for high rpm, high power output, so these changes could make the engines unusable (low torque for example) so it is easier to build new engine just for endurance racing
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u/Raymond_Racer Audi R8 #1 Jun 16 '24
Not to mention as Alpine are running an LMDh instead of a "Pure-blooded" Hypercar, Alpine can't carry over their F1 engine's MGU-K & MGU-H into its chassis, and must instead use the spec hybrid motor provided to all LMDh teams. Something that the Renault F1 Engine wasn't designed to accommodate.
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u/jakeyboy723 Jun 15 '24
Plot twist: They wrote this statement at the announcement of the car using Mechachrome engines.
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u/Dellaro_54 Jun 15 '24 edited Jun 15 '24
Such a disheartening result. The car has really good pace this early in their program but the engine was always going to be a question mark. Le Mans was always going to be challenge for this engine since it has to remain full throttle for 15 seconds on the Mulsanne straight.
I hope they can develop this engine further to get rid of these reliability issues. The current package is really fast so changing the engine might screw up the balance of the car.
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u/LockedUpLotionClown Jun 15 '24
Mick Schumacher must be ready to have a mental breakdown at this point. Can't get a leg up anywhere
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u/no-se-habla-de-bruno Jun 15 '24
He's driving so wellfor zero points. It's painful.
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u/6097291 Jun 16 '24
Maybe they'll give him the Alpine F1 seat to make up for it
He should still run
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u/no-se-habla-de-bruno Jun 16 '24
I actually think they might and move Doohan to WEC for a year
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u/fastcooljosh Jun 16 '24
If they have a brain over there at Alpine that should be a no brainer.
Mick won F2, F3 and F4 and has F1 experience as well.
Doohan didn't win anything in his junior career.
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Jun 16 '24
Mick sucked ass in two years at F1. The only thing he was leading there was destructors' championship.
Time to get Doohan in that seat.
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u/fastcooljosh Jun 16 '24
That's not true, he sucked for almost the first half of the 2022 season, after that (around Canada) he constantly beat KMag in the race. The amount of times he ( and also KMag) were fucked by the Haas pit crew and the insane strategy team was the cherry on top.
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u/no-se-habla-de-bruno Jun 16 '24
He should've scored points in 4 or 5 races. He just doesn't seem to get luck.
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u/Gubrach Jun 16 '24
Mick sucked ass in two years at F1. The only thing he was leading there was destructors' championship.
Pointing out that the alternative is Jack Doohan.
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u/fireinthesky7 Hendrick Motorsports Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 #24 Jun 16 '24
The car he was driving was a pile of ass, and the team found ways to fuck up his races that people didn't think were possible.
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u/beyond98 Cadillac Racing V-Series R #2 Jun 16 '24
That's what happens when you fit your shitty Mechachrome GP2 engine in a Hypercar, that you can't last even 8 hours
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u/WTFAnimations Jun 15 '24
What the fuck did they expect if they use an old F2 engine that is widely known to also be a hand grenade? 🤡
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u/sumerzy Ferrari Jun 15 '24
Doesn't exactly make you want to go out and buy an Alpine does it lol
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u/AvedaAvedez Jun 16 '24
As long as Mecachrome is involved in any part of the engine construction, definitely
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u/al-mongus-bin-susar Jun 16 '24
They only have the A110 right now and even that is on it's way out so you might not even have an Alpine to buy soon.
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u/FirstReactionShock Jun 15 '24
mecachrome: Oops, I did it again
I played with your heart
Got lost in the game
Ooh, baby, baby
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u/fireinthesky7 Hendrick Motorsports Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 #24 Jun 16 '24
I love the way that car sounds, looks, and goes when it works, but they couldn't complete a full endurance test even while developing it last year because the engines kept blowing up. They could have used the Nissan DPi engine and we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.
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u/MohPowaBabe Porsche Penske Motorsport 963 #6 Jun 16 '24
Mecachrome being mecachrome 🤣 Honestly Alpine asked for this, Mecachrome have never been able to provide a reliable engine in a category where theyre the only engine supplier. Why would you pick them as your engine supplier? Bruh
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u/kieranhorner Jun 16 '24
It hurts my brain that they picked this power unit in the first place. The F2 engine has been proven to be massively unreliable, why would you pick that as your basis for a endurance racer?
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u/A_BulletProof_Hoodie Audi Jun 15 '24
Can someone ELI5 why the mechachrome engine is so problematic?
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Jun 15 '24
It's known to be unreliable in F2, and Alpine's engine is based on it. However, Alpine heavily modified it (which was going to happen regardless). Now that both cars failed early with engine issues, people are assuming it is a problem related to the design, as it is with F2, regardless of the reason.
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u/champion1day Dallara Jun 15 '24
Everyone knows about the Mecachrome engines except Alpine.
This came as no surprise.
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u/V8-Turbo-Hybrid Manufacturers Jun 15 '24
They should've used VR38DETT engine form their family Nissan like RS01. It was proved best race engine, it could give car near 100% trouble free.
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u/RoIIerBaII Jun 16 '24
Can't be used as a stressed member of the chassis. Would be uncompetitive chassis-wise.
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u/realydealy0 Jun 16 '24
What do you even mean by that?
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u/faceestrella Jun 16 '24
Not who you're replying to, and not sure what you're unclear on, but being a stressed member means that the engine is structurally part of the chassis/load bearing.
I guess the engine mentioned can't be a stressed member and therefore the chassis would need structural modifications for it to be the engine and not have the engine be a stressed member would mean more weight in parts that will have to support and provide rigidity, thus being inherently disadvantaged in that perspective
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u/cplchanb Jun 15 '24
Wow.... even worse than the bykolle cars .. at least they were able to make it 2/3... Their poor performance rival that of the ill fated nissan abortion
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u/formulapain Jun 16 '24
Posted this question in r/formula1 (since that's where I found out about the Alpine double engine failure, but I feel the chances of getting the correct answer is higher here:
As far as I am able to research, what Alpine "achieved" is a first in Le Mans history: no team (fielding two cars) has ever had both cars retire due to engine failure before. There have been instances in which one car retired due to engine failure, and the other retired due accident or non-engine mechanical failure (clutch, transmission, electronics, etc.), but there has never been double engine failure.
Can anyone confirm or deny?
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u/therealdilbert Jun 16 '24
a little googling,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_24_Hours_of_Le_Mans#Did_not_finishtwo Joest Porsches listed out after one hour because of engine
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u/formulapain Jun 16 '24
Someone in r/formula1 shared the answer of the 2010 24 Hours of Le Mans. Team Peugeot Total's LMP1 cars #1 and #2 both retired due to engine failure according to Wikipedia.
Apparently car #2 (driven by Franck Montagny, Stéphane Sarrazin, and Nicolas Minassian) ran 22 hours before retiring and car #1 (driven by Sébastien Bourdais, Pedro Lamy, and Simon Pagenaud) ran for 21 hours and 40 minutes before retiring.
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u/Rbrtaw Jun 16 '24
The amount of money they’ve poured into racing with nothing to show for it is pretty impressive. Actually might be damaging their brand more than anything.
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u/Reddit_Z Isotta Fraschini Tipo 6-C #11 Jun 16 '24
Maybe put this a spoiler??? moron.....
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u/BlueBullRacing Alpine Elf Team ORECA 07 #36 Jun 16 '24
why are you on the subreddit if you didn't want it spoiled
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u/Reddit_Z Isotta Fraschini Tipo 6-C #11 Jun 17 '24
It's called scrolling on reddit you clown.... Why wouldn't you use the spoiler tags. Other people figured it out......
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u/SilverArrowW01 Jun 15 '24
Since my guy Ocon is out at the end of the year at Alpine, I can finally enjoy some Schadenfreude watching them reap the consequences of their sh*t decisions.
This is hilarious and leadership deserve all of the flak after going for literally the worst imaginable option solely because it was cheap and French.
Poor drivers and mechanics, though…
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u/S7UXnet Jun 16 '24
Except he's going to Haas lol, and Alpine is looking good for 2026, they've hired solid people from Mercedes and Ferrari.
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u/midniteRNR Jun 15 '24
Mecachrome junk engine. They did it to themselves. If the engine was breaking in testing, there was no hope of it working in the race.