r/vexillology 1d ago

Discussion Why does Martinique have 2 flags (aside from french flag)?

1.1k Upvotes

91 comments sorted by

582

u/bongingnaut African Union 1d ago

First one is the old one, second is the new

435

u/gamepasscore 1d ago

What a downgrade

336

u/devdevo1919 Canada / New Brunswick 1d ago

Agreed, but the first flag is associated with colonialism, so I can definitely understand the change. It’s a shame that the coolest looking flags are associated with hate, racism or colonialism… a few examples:

  • Apartheid South Africa
  • Rhodesia

236

u/jmorais00 1d ago

Cmon apartheid SA was a terrible flag

You could've mentioned the Cross of Burgundy used by the Spanish as they pillaged the New World. That was a banger of a flag

55

u/NamelessFase 1d ago

I genuinely don't understand the love for the old SA flag, their current one is very unique to me

2

u/thunderchungus1999 3h ago

The old one was literally a flag made up only of stolen flags wtf

37

u/Uberguuy Philadelphia 1d ago

About 8 years ago we used to clown on the Apartheid flag in this sub. The culture has changed, and for the worse.

8

u/Spectral___0 20h ago

The new South African flag is far better, but people think it's just random colors, it is a matter of finding the form and it's meaning

18

u/GeorgieTheThird United Kingdom • Canada 1d ago

tbh I'm a huge fan of the Apartheid SA flag

11

u/ToruMarx 20h ago

It's funny folks mention they like the Apartheid flag but give no reason why. It was just a bunch of flags stuck together with some tape. Unlike the current SA flag which is genuine and authentic.

3

u/PoroMafia 11h ago

I like the apartheid flag not because it's a good design, but because it's so goofy. It's the Dutch flag with 2 smaller Dutch related flags and to top it all off the Union jack.

5

u/Huge-Masterpiece6876 11h ago

At least you provided a reason for liking it

26

u/nasa258e San Diego • Polish Underground State (1939-1945) 1d ago

It's so bad though

7

u/Huge-Masterpiece6876 22h ago

What’s so good about it?

1

u/GeorgieTheThird United Kingdom • Canada 10h ago

i love the prinsenvlag's colours + having three flags on it makes it stand out to me, i see it as i see a coat of arms

-12

u/Stalinsovietunion 1d ago

the Apartheid RSA flag is by far my favorite flag

39

u/BPH_Geo LGBT Pride 1d ago

"colonialism" is putting it a bit mildly. The snake flag is associated with the slave trade.

47

u/evergreennightmare 1d ago

both of those are mid at best

148

u/oywiththepoodles96 1d ago

The new South Africa is way better

102

u/jsidksns 1d ago

And the flag too

-26

u/UnionMapping Rhineland (1882) 1d ago

I agree, but the Boer flag is so good🌶️🌶️🌶️

14

u/cool_bots_1127 Portugal 1d ago

There are some boer flags I like, the Apartheid flag isn’t one lol. The flag of goshen is my favorite boer flag.

2

u/NamelessFase 1d ago

I've always liked the Natalia one, idk why, its not necessarily nice, it just looks interesting to me

2

u/cool_bots_1127 Portugal 1d ago

We all got that one Boer Flag we like bro, just I really hope it isn’t an AWB one or an Apartheid one.

18

u/lesbian-menace 1d ago

Dude the Rhodesian flag is actually straight fucking ass.

6

u/walt-and-co 23h ago

People love to say ‘Rhodesia had a cool flag’ yet completely ignore the state flag of Nigeria, which is essentially the same design but without the white supremacy.

2

u/Analternate1234 20h ago

It’s the coat of arms on it is why people say it. But yes Nigeria’s flag is cool and iconic

1

u/walt-and-co 13h ago

Hence why I specified the state flag rather than the national flag, as that has the (Nigerian) coat of arms

6

u/cool_bots_1127 Portugal 1d ago

British people who moved to Zimbabwe 2 years ago and already claim to be native “Rhodesians” must be crying rn, LIKE BITCH UR NOT A FUCKING AFRIKANER THEY BEEN HERE FOR 400 YEARS YOU BEEN HERE FOR 200 SECONDS

6

u/Stalinsovietunion 1d ago

rhodesian's were british not afrikaans. The Afrikaans is a large group of whites in South Africa descended from the Dutch, Germans, and French protestants. There were some Afrikaners in Rhodesia but the majority of whites were from the United Kingdom

2

u/cool_bots_1127 Portugal 1d ago

No shit, that’s what I just said

1

u/Stalinsovietunion 1d ago

I am talking about the Rhodesians of the Country Rhodesia from when it existed, most of the time the English immigrants there called themselves Rhodesians even if born in the UK? You were talking about Zimbabwe, different country

1

u/Magerfaker 3h ago

but his point stands, the afrikaners had a long history, to the point of being a fully separate culture from the Dutch. The same can't be said about the Rhodesians, who were fundamentally British.

5

u/cribbageSTARSHIP 1d ago

Same with uniform items. Friggin Nazis ruined the jolly Rodger for the rest of us.

1

u/ToruMarx 20h ago

The latter isn't always true, e.g. in Zambia or Sri Lanka or in many South American countries

-8

u/pederal 1d ago

The union jack is associated with colonialism, does it mean we should remove it?

12

u/IffyPeanut 1d ago edited 1d ago

Threaten me with a good time!

Edit: Guys, I’m just joking around. Don’t downvote the other guy, it’s cool.

-14

u/pederal 1d ago

Smartest redditor

4

u/IffyPeanut 1d ago

I can’t tell if you’re complimenting me or roasting me, so I’ll just say thanks.

(I’m like 90% sure it’s roasting)

1

u/Salazard260 12h ago

Yes, all Western European flags are associated with colonialism if you look at it that way.

Here, we're talking about a flag that was never official to begin with, based on naval flags used by slave traders, and that was supposed to represent an island where 98% are descendants of slaves.

Yeah, no shit they don't like it.

The "new" flag has been used for decades at this point. The move simply made it an official symbol of the département.

-1

u/Oethyl 1d ago

Yes

0

u/GravityPunisher 1d ago

I like the ww2 Japan flag

2

u/Beor_The_Old Canada 16h ago

Japan has had the same flag since before WWII, the rising sun flag was and still is the flag of the Japanese navy

1

u/GravityPunisher 14h ago

Interesting, thanks.

0

u/Cornelius005 20h ago

But last time I checked Martinique was still a department of France, and not an independent country, so what's the deal?

0

u/Salazard260 12h ago

And départements can't have flags ? Paris would like a word.

0

u/Meilingcrusader 20h ago

Martinique is literally part of France

3

u/Salazard260 12h ago

It was a flag used by slave ships and was never really used by modern-day inhabitants of the island, so they didn't really change their flag, more created one they'll actually use.

144

u/kreeperface 1d ago

The first one is older, and considered a choice of the local elites and its colors are associated with colonialism. The new one is supposed to better represent the people from Martinique.

65

u/en43rs 1d ago

It's not the colors, it's the flag. It was the pre-revolution flag flown by ships coming from the island (and so linked to slave trade).

85

u/Zonel 1d ago

Hmm snake Quebec…

34

u/caffeinated_wizard 1d ago

Thread moi pas dessus

64

u/Birdseeding Genderqueer 1d ago

The snake flag was only official for a short period in the 18th century before the French Revolution, and is quite controversial. It hasn't been used much locally in either official or unofficial capacity, and is by many associated with the slave trade. The "L" shape of the snakes doesn't even stand for Martinique, but for St Lucia, which was taken by the British in 1814, so I fully understand why Martiniquans have little attachment to it.

Last year, the red-green-black flag was officially adapted by the assembly of Martinique. It's also a bit controversial, because it was originally the flag of the anti-colonial independence movement on the island, and has a connection to local radical movements and the Pan-African movement (80% of Martiniquans have African ancestry). I quite like it, personally, it's striking and I think the connections make sense and are well-thought-out.

16

u/keithlaub 1d ago

For a bit, they used this flag in international sporting events, but I believe that they have stopped using it in favor of the new official flag.

23

u/FlagAnthem_SM San Marino 1d ago

*ONE flag, the second.

1

u/LightningFletch 8h ago

Yo! I wasn’t expecting to see you here.

9

u/RubOwn 1d ago

They went from Snake Quebec to Black Czechia.

15

u/BPH_Geo LGBT Pride 1d ago

The people saying "new flag" and "old flag" are over-simplifying a bit. The rouge-vert-noir flag has been flown unofficially since the 1960's. And even though the snake flag is based on an 18th-century ensign, it only started being used (by a small minority of people) in the 2000s. So in a very real sense you could say the "new flag" is actually the older flag.

6

u/meeeeto_meetooooo 1d ago

First one is capitalist, second one is czeched

9

u/SignificantAd1421 1d ago

They changed to the 2nd flag recently but lots of thing didn't changed it yet

13

u/Classic_Greedy 1d ago

The “first” flag is not real. Do not use it at all as it is racist

3

u/le75 Namibia 1d ago

The first flag was never an official flag of Martinique. Until February 2023 only the French Tricolor was the official flag. Now the second flag here has official status alongside the Tricolor.

8

u/AtomicSub69 Cumberland / England 1d ago

I never realised those were snakes on the flag

7

u/Expensive_Finger_303 1d ago

Gadsden Quebec is not real, it can't hurt you

The Gadsden Quebec:

4

u/Dumbledozer 1d ago

Scotland also has 2 flags

2

u/Salazard260 12h ago

The "old" one was never really used by 99% of the population since it's associated with slavery and was not even official, the "new" one is new in the sense it was made official recently but has been used as an unofficial symbol of the island for a while.

1

u/alex_13_72 1d ago

flag of libertarian quebec

1

u/randomperson12179 1d ago

Libertarian Quebec and Black Czechia

1

u/Mountain_Captain5541 21h ago

!wave

1

u/FlagWaverBotReborn 21h ago

Here you go:

Link #1: Gallery


Beep Boop I'm a bot. About. Maintained by Lunar Requiem

1

u/Freak_Out_Bazaar 15h ago

I remember when Canada lost to Snake Quebec in CONCACAF World Cup Qualifying

1

u/chuckmeawayoneday 5h ago

The first one (snake flag) is strongly disliked by most locals, as it's seen as a symbol of colonialism. I've never seen this new flag design before but I'd guess the design is more inspired by African flags and is meant to better represent the current people on the island.

1

u/Flyzart 1d ago

Quebec flag if Quebec was infested by snakes

0

u/Dragonseer666 1d ago

If they put a Sneak onto the new one it would be so much better.

0

u/Maxwellxoxo_ 18h ago

Free Martinique 🇲🇶 (the flag reminds me of Palestine a bit)

0

u/Analternate1234 20h ago edited 20h ago

It’s unfortunate that a cool flag is gone but it’s completely understandable. That flag stood for slavery and colonialism. It was the right move to get rid of it.

So many cool flags unfortunately have bad symbolism behind them and deservedly need to be replaced

1

u/Salazard260 12h ago

Buddy the sake flag was never used to beginning with, the "new" flag is new is the sende that the local council officially adopted it recently, but it has been flown since the 60s.

-2

u/MNV02 1d ago

Here's a fusion. Thanks to the power of screenshot.

1

u/yasseridreei 1d ago

!wave

1

u/FlagWaverBotReborn 1d ago

Here you go:

Link #1: Media


Beep Boop I'm a bot. About. Maintained by Lunar Requiem

-6

u/Valuable_Pear9654 1d ago

czech republic shitty edition… why?

-10

u/Ajwa00 1d ago

Palestine but black instead of white

9

u/Scratch-ean Provo (2015) / Laser Kiwi 1d ago

Well Not Exactly...

1

u/Ajwa00 1d ago

Ohh you're right. Idk how I could forget how it looks like lol

9

u/Scratch-ean Provo (2015) / Laser Kiwi 1d ago

The Martiniquan flag according to you:

-15

u/Adam-Voight 1d ago

If the new South Africa were better it would be the destination for migrants, as it was before.