r/skeptic • u/JetTheDawg • 2d ago

Exclusive: Preliminary investigation confirms Russian missile caused Azerbaijan Airlines crash

https://www.euronews.com/2024/12/26/exclusive-preliminary-investigation-confirms-russian-missile-over-grozny-caused-aktau-cras
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u/JetTheDawg 2d ago

How is Russia still allowed to have a vote in the UN? Or veto power? 

Remember, MAGA loves to cozy up to Russia and Putin for some strange reason, so let’s see how they respond to this. 

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u/Happytallperson 2d ago

Passenger jets being shot down by air defence systems is not exactly a new thing, both the US and Russia have form in this regard.
Korean Air Lines Flight 007 - Wikipedia

Iran Air Flight 655 - Wikipedia

It doesn't make it anymore excusable - but to an extent these incidents and incidents like Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752 - Wikipedia and Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 - Wikipedia are kind of reminders that wars have consequences and maybe politicians should spend more effort avoiding them if they don't want lots of civilians to die.

So to answer the question of why Russia is still in the UN, its because nations have a long history of letting these things slide as part and parcel of leaders dick waving. The world shouted and then shrugged at Belarus kidnapping someone off a passing plane.
Ryanair Flight 4978 - Wikipedia

Ultimately, expelling a country from the UN is very difficult and also seen as undesirable because its recognised that Germany and Italy outside of the League of Nations was a bad thing. Keeping some form of diplomatic channel open, however badly things are going, stops the nukes flying. That was the lesson learned in the early 60s with the Berlin Crisis and Cuban Missile Crisis.

AS for removing Veto power, there are a lot of proposals for UN reform, there is good grounds that Brazil, India and South Africa should all be added to the UNSC on a permanent basis. Ultimately however, China does not want Russia to lose its veto power, so Russia will not lose its veto power.

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u/hypatiaredux 2d ago

I do not believe that the Russians deliberately shot at a passenger jet.

I have no trouble at all believing that they accidentally shot at a passenger jet.

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u/slipknot_official 2d ago edited 23m ago

A Ukrainian drone hit Grozny earlier this week.

I think there was a miscommunication with the plane, and Russia thought the jet was a Ukrainian drone.

Same with flight 17 that was short down over Ukraine in 2014. Russia thought it was a Ukrainian military airliner.

No excuses for Russia. But it’s more of an issue with the decrepit state Russia is in, than intentionally just shooting down airliners.

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u/Happytallperson 2d ago

Russia managed to shoot down one of its own fighters during the 2008 War with Georgia after mistaking it for a Georgian jet. 

Georgia did not have an air force at the time.

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u/Benocrates 2h ago

The US just shot down one of its F18s and almost shot down a second, last week in the Red Sea, after mistaking it for a Houthi drone/cruise missile.

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u/Benocrates 2h ago

It can happen even to the most technologically advanced militaries. Blue on blue isn't necessarily correlated with economic soundness.

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u/slipknot_official 22m ago

They’re shoot down their own military craft inside Russia very often.

Yeah it can happen. Just happened to the us.

But Russia is on another level.