r/runninglifestyle • u/SnooPeppers8723 • 1d ago
How can i improve my form ?
Sorry for the ugly video but i am desperate for advice đđ i have aches in my knees and outer left knee cap ( kind of like IT band syndrome)
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u/VizzleG 1d ago
Youâre able to lazy run because youâre not running fast.
Speed up your pace, your form will improve.
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u/SnooPeppers8723 1d ago
Omggg i have been questioning wether or not i should speed up my speed. Itâs because science says the bulk of training should be done in zone 1 so m trying not to over do it
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u/Runningprofmama 1d ago
I agree with vizzle. It does look like you will be at your most biomechanically efficient for your current cardio fitness level at a faster pace. Try a few paces and see how fast you are when youâre running slow enough to finish full sentences but still be a tiny bit out of breath. Conversational pace running gives a good indicator of what a decent but still easy pace should be, and what 80% of your running should be if youâre following the 80/20 framework.
Re pain - if youâre feeling too much too often, hit up a sport physio. For now, make sure youâre not doing too much too soon.
Good luck and keep running!
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u/SnooPeppers8723 1d ago
Ty very much this is actually incredibly motivating. I would say my pace depends on the amount of food i have eaten earlier in the day so if i have a full breakfast i run faster and for longer than if i only have a light snack or if iâm fasted. That s why m a bit confused about whatâs a good pace for me
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u/Runningprofmama 1d ago
That makes sense! It takes a while to figure all this out⊠Iâve been running for more than a decade and Iâm still figuring bits out đ.
If youâre not fuelled or only a little, it makes sense to go easier. If you feel strong and energetic go harder. Right now, just have fun and learn from it all! The main thing I would say to you at this stage is to enjoy it, and do some research about to approach improving and optimising in a way thatâs healthy for your body, and fun for your mind. The other things like speed and form will follow (unless youâve got some weird biomechanics going on, then it might be tricker).
Hereâs some more unsolicited advice: - if you donât want it, stop reading now.
âââââââââââ- 1. Build up slow and steady - no more than 10% increase in mileage or intensity per week. 2. Supplement with strength training if you can 3. Incorporate drills and intervals once a week (depending on how your body responds, may be less at the start) 4. If you feel tired or too sore, take it back a bit. Itâs so easy to do too much in the beginning without realising. Iâm not talking about overtraining, which is quite hard to do, in fact. but making your muscles and ligaments do more than theyâre used to before they have the chance to adapt to the stimulus youâre giving them. 5. Iâm not sure about your hormonal situation is, but if you have a run where for no reason you feel like crap, it might be related to your cycle. I always get heavy legs and sore lower back around my period, for instance. 6. Have fun!
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u/SnooPeppers8723 1d ago
Ty very much I actually need advice to gauge when to increase speed vs time. For example i am able to run an hour at the pace in the video but increasing it makes my run shorter towards 30 to 40 mins. I think i reached a state of overtraining in the past month since i started trying to run 2 hrs regularly and 3 hours sessions which is a pretty terrible idea in hindsight.
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u/Runningprofmama 1d ago
Ohh yes, that is a lot and Iâm not surprised youâre getting some pain (the kind of pain youâre describing, btw, is very typical for overuse pain).
That said, itâs so hard to know whatâs too much when you first start! Especially if youâre having fun. If youâre having trouble with pain for more than a few weeks though, please consider consulting with a physio. I wish I had have done so sooner, and now Iâm taking months and months to get rid of an injury. Itâs much easier to avoid injury than recover from it.
Okay enough with the unsolicited stuff. Very best of luck!
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u/kaoschosen 1d ago
You'll find zone 1 when you're a competent runner, this seems like early doors for you where it's absolutely necessary to hit higher zones just to get an easy run in.
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u/SnooPeppers8723 1d ago
I try to have sessions where i run faster but this was supposed to be an easy run. I have been running for 3-4 months tho
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u/KesselRunner42 1d ago edited 1d ago
I've been reading/sometimes posting in r/running for a while even if I'm not exactly the best runner myself. I always seem to hear it as zone 2 there, but that what the zones are aren't always the same, accurate or calculated the same. And that newbie runners shouldn't worry much about zones; that the purpose is mostly to allow you to get in a lot of mileage when you're training with higher mileage and still recover adequately. Just what I seem to hear over and over, over there when people ask those kinds of questions.
I think quick cadence/light on your feet (linked, since it means less time in contact with the ground, each foot-strike doesn't need to be as forceful if there are more of them?) is helpful for being a little less pound-y on the pavement and less hard on the knees (but I'm not an expert either)
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u/Ok-Veterinarian969 1d ago
Just run more
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u/SnooPeppers8723 1d ago
Ehhhh that lead to knee pain ngl
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u/Thirstywhale17 1d ago
Run more but build up slowly. Dont worry about form. Like others have said, form improves when you run with more effort. And Zone 1 isn't what you should be aiming for. You should want to elevate your heart rate. Zone 2 training is rhetoric spun from top level athletes who train far more than you or I. There are Zone 2 training benefits, but a large part of them are from being able to train more without fatiguing yourself. If you're already someone who has easy run days or if you run 2-4 days / week, Zone 2 training is massively overblown.
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u/SnooPeppers8723 1d ago
I actually find that pushing my speed too hard makes me ill/ want to quit except for tempo sessions. I want to be able to run for more time not more quickly if that makes sense ? Like sure i would like to not run at an abysmally slow speed but i prefer my run to be 60mins or 40 mins if itâs tight. Should i switch up my perspective ?
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u/Thirstywhale17 1d ago
You should do both of those things, but if you're going until you feel ill, maybe dont go THAT fast. There is middle ground
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u/Ok-Veterinarian969 1d ago
Heel striking is a common cause of knee pain⊠try landing more towards the middle / front of your foot
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u/Far_Belt_5960 1d ago
From what I can tell, your foot strike is pretty good. There are some run drills you can do a couple times a week to perfect your form â search on YouTube or TikTok for some good ones. They should include things like A skips and B skips, high knees, ankling, and others. For knee pain and especially IT band syndrome, try to 1. Increase your cadence and 2. Strengthen your glutes. Iâve started incorporating the âMyrtle Methodâ 3-4 times a week into my strengthening routine. Google Myrtle method for running and it should pop up, it includes exercises like clam shells and lateral leg raises to strengthen your glute medius and your hip flexors.
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u/SnooPeppers8723 1d ago
Ty very much this is quite helpful !! I have been strenght training for way back before i started running, but iâll keep that in mind. Also i never tried drills before so maybe i should focus on that., also should i increase my speed to increase cadence, because this feels the most natural cadence to me. Again tysm for ur time
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u/Far_Belt_5960 1d ago
If increasing your cadence increases your speed without increasing your effort then thatâs fine. It definitely takes some practice to increase cadence without increasing effort. Aim for 170-180 steps per minute â so 85-90 steps per foot per minute. You can find playlists on Spotify that are 170-180 bpm and then run to the beat of the songs, if you run with music. You also can just count your foot strikes for a minute and adjust from there.
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u/grumpalina 1d ago
Don't change your form for some mythical ideal. Only adjust under the guidance of a running physio if they believe that certain aspects of your form are causing you injuries.
The best way to improve your running form naturally is to regularly do strides, sprints and speed intervals. When you run fast, your body will naturally find its more efficient form.
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u/SnooPeppers8723 1d ago
Ty I actually find conflicting and contradictory advice sometimes that s why m asking in the first place
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u/grumpalina 1d ago
Sometimes your body just hurts if you haven't been recovering sufficiently, even if there's nothing you have to change in your form.
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u/grumpalina 20h ago
You can also check out Fredrik Zillen, a Swedish running technique specialist. He gives a lot of sensible running form advice without prescribing an ideal one-size-fits-all running form for everyone.
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u/soupdawg 1d ago
Lean forward. Also maybe try running on a track instead.
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u/jackofnac 1d ago
Donât lean forward. Itâll happen naturally to some extent as they pick up speed but telling someone to lean intentionally just creates bad running posture.
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u/SnooPeppers8723 1d ago
Exactly i tried it and when i force it too much it didnât feel nice on my knees
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u/SnooPeppers8723 1d ago
Tyyy unfortunately i donây have access to one. Is there a reason why track is better ?
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u/Wise_Rest8107 1d ago
Your upper body looks a little disconnected from your lower body. Maybe try engaging your core (sucking in your stomach) + keeping arms loose like other ppl said. Running isnât just about the legs!
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u/SnooPeppers8723 1d ago
Ty ! I struggle a bit with that m not sure what to do with my arms and what candence / angle i should rotate them at
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u/Wise_Rest8107 1d ago
Elbows should be 90 degrees so hands should be swinging closer to your hips than where they are now.
I donât think your shoulders should be rotating much as itâs not a good use of energy and will also rotate your hips.
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u/SnooPeppers8723 1d ago
U are right tyy i tried it and my left leg stopped going inward / hurting outside the kneecap
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u/DeannaMay21 1d ago
Small comment, don't let your arms cross your body. They should be in a back and forth motion, not cross. Your feet will move faster if your move your arms faster, wierd thing I know but I tried it and it oddly works.
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u/jackofnac 1d ago
Small amount of cross is pretty normal but I think rule of thumb is to imagine a line in the center of your chest and to ensure your hands never cross it
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u/mickki4 1d ago
The question was about improving your form not how stylish you run. Emily Zatopek had zero style and was effective in the distances that he ran. Winning gold in the 5000, 10,000 and marathon, all in the same Olympics in Helsinki. Ultra runners are effective by running very minimal and low knee lifts which conserve energy over huge distances, they lack grace and finesse of a top class marathon runner, but run effectively. Before you get advice such as how to improve knee lift, to get foot plant just below the hips etc you need a bit of research. What distance do you want to excel at? Do you really want to excel? There's a myriad of different styles from the Taramuhara ultra runners from Mexico to the Kenyans from the Rift Valley who tend to plant on the forefoot due to walking a lot of uphills from a very early age. There's a whole host of reasons why people want to change style but it depends on why you want to change it. I coach at Level 3 and use various techniques to change peoples styles to suit a particular aim. So let's start at the beginning. Why do you need to change?
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u/SnooPeppers8723 1d ago
Itâs not about style AT ALL. My knees and outer knee cap hurt more so I thought it might be because of bad form m just making sure m not doing something wrong that can cause injury. Also honestly m more interested in long distance running ( building to half marathons / marathons) than racing thatâs why i have such a slow pace
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u/steroidthrl 1d ago
My advice is to keep up the consistency! Try to control your breathing and do dynamic stretches before and after the run.
Youâll see progress soon enough. Time your runs also; see what your average mile time is
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u/SnooPeppers8723 1d ago
I have been running consistently minimum 3 times a week max 7 times a week for 4 months my aerobic base has improved more or less but i feel like m stalling
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u/aylababyxo 1d ago
what speed do you run at?
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u/SnooPeppers8723 1d ago
7 km/h in the video(but i can push myself to 8km/h and 8.5 km/h) i think thatâs like 13:47
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u/Funnyllama20 1d ago
Lots of good thoughts here, but be aware that your body naturally self-optimizes. What feels comfortable is most of the time what is best for you. Any form changes you make should be made slowly over time to avoid injury. Watch a WMM and youâll see some people with odd form (like Mantz). Some people just naturally have weird form. So, improve, but let it be natural and no stark changes.
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u/CatKungFu 17h ago
- Raise the treadmill to 1 or 2 degrees if itâs adjustable.
- Keep your head above your hips.
- Look toward the horizon, not at the console or your feet.
- Keep your hands down, around your hip area.
- Minimise all movement that isnât your legs or forward motion, going up and down and moving your arms around is wasting energy.
- Relax your hands and let your shoulders drop and be loose, try not to carry tension, imagine youâre gently holding a butterfly between your fingertips.
- Kick your heels upward a little as you lift off.
- Think about what is comfortable when your feet hit the ground, some people heel strike and others like a flatter landing learn what is comfortable for you.
- Start to increase the pace a little and itâll encourage you into a smoother, flatter, flowing rhythm.
- As the pace increases, keep your body in the same posture, but lean into the run as if falling forward.
- Use the emergency stop cord, attach it to your waistband.
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u/TiloDroid 1d ago
if you want to try out forward lean: try to go outside and stand up straight. then, from your feet up, slowly lean forward until you basically fall over. then, transition into a run while trying to keep the forward lean.
have you heard of strides? basically you take 50-100m or 10-15s to build towards 80-95% of your max speed. this can be a good opportunity to focus on your form while also exercising the legs max strength. you can try to do 1-2 of these at the end of one of your weekly easy runs
if you want to further improve speed, try adding one short intervall session into your training. otherwise, you can also try to add a (weighted) leg workout to further improve leg strength. both can help to improve your running economy even at slower speeds
as always, start adding things slowly and one by one (not all at once instantly) and if youre hurting (especially while youre not running) stop immediately, slowly return to what you did before and if needed, seek medical attention
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u/jackofnac 1d ago
Please please donât advise new runners to lean forward. Itâs not something they should ever do consciously. It makes for bad posture and as they gain speed, itâll happen naturally.
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u/TiloDroid 1d ago
the article you sent was a nice read. for clarification on forward lean:
"In addition, attempting to lean forward almost always invites problems. When we try to lean forward, we inevitably lean from the waist and put our bodies in an uneconomical position that increases our risk of injury. Leaning from the waist puts additional strain on the back and hamstrings, and can cause lower back pain. Not to mention, it will certainly make running feel harder.
Instead, your forward lean must come from the ankles. Imagine that your body is a straight line; it can lean, but at no point should it be bent along that line. This is a particularly helpful form cue that helps you maintain a tall, athletic posture while running."
the form cue mentioned is locked behind a paywall. in my comment i outline one possible way to get a personalized feeling on what forward lean could look like. furthermore the article points out:
"If a forward lean is a byproduct of sound training and not something we should consciously work to cue, the question becomes, âWhat training activities help us develop a forward lean in our running form?â
First, we should get comfortable running fast regularly. We can accomplish this in several ways:
Run strides and/or hill sprints 1-3 times per week
Run 1-2 weekly speed workouts at a variety of paces (based on your ability and goal, of course)
Race a variety of distances regularly
By running fast consistently, youâll become more comfortable with the mechanics and neuromuscular recruitment required. Speed is a skill and demands regular practice."
these tips seem to agree with the advice from my original comment
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u/jackofnac 1d ago
I donât think there was anything inherently wrong with what you said, outside of its target audience being a new runner, and the framing of forward lean being something to âtry out.â
Strides are 100% good advice. I donât think attempting to lean is good advice, but I think a faster runner understanding why they lean is a different conversation altogether.
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u/TiloDroid 1d ago
perhaps i did get too carried away. forward lean is certaintly not the most important thing a new runner has to worry about. i saw it mentioned in other comments and know this cool drill which can be used to figure out what forward lean feels like, but in the end its not super necessary, especially when doing strides can just achieve more.
i hope we can agree on strides being cool and awesome, and forward lean being something not to worry about too much on its own :)
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u/MegaProject303 1d ago
A few ideas. Keep the hands loose (don't make a fist), light swing from the shoulders, relax the shoulder blades down, keep arm swing in forward direction (don't cross to the center). And of course, keep running!