I've had a timeline like this for a while now. But before I show it, let's look at some dialogue from the game:

You know, I had a son once.... years ago.

This immediately puts Isaac's date of death, at minimum, in 1897.

This reminds me.... I taught another boy to fish once. A long time ago.

This means that Isaac couldn't have been an infant when he died, he was old enough to have gone fishing. We can assume he was roughly the same age as Jack when he died, as Arthur is directly comparing the two.

No, this long before I met Lenny. Long before you was even born.

Here, Jack is asking if that "other boy" he's referring to is Lenny. Arthur says that it isn't and that this was before Jack was born. This puts Isaac's date of birth quite a while before 1895, as Isaac would've have to been old enough to fish by at least 1894.

Eliza, a waitress I knew. When she got pregnant.....  she knew who I was, what my life was.

"She knew who I was" implies that Eliza knew who Arthur was. This suggests that this was after the robbery of 1887, which made Arthur, Hosea, and Dutch wanted criminals (This is backed up by some dialogue in "The New South").

I didn't want to promise something I couldn't keep, but, I said i'll do right by them. Every few months I'd stop by there for a few days.

This suggests that this was during an era where the Van der Linde gang didn't have to move around as much, as they had less people and no law chasing after them. I think late 1880s, or early 1890s is a safe bet.

He was such a good kid. She was to, I guess, just a kid, nineteen.

People take this as Arthur meeting Eliza when she was nineteen. I doubt that. When Arthur talks about Isaac being a good kid, he states Eliza was also a good kid as well, which suggests he's talking about them in the same time frame. The fact that Arthur even calls her a "kid" suggest that there's a wide age gap between them. 

With all that, here's the timeline I created:

April 15th, 1887 - Dutch, Arthur, and Hosea rob their first bank.

Later in 1887 - A 24 year old Arthur meets a 15 year old Eliza. The both of them have a one night stand.

1888 - Arthur and Eliza meet again and she reveals that he got her pregnant. She knows what kind of man Arthur is. Arthur says that while he won't promise anything, he'll do right by her and her child. Isaac is born later that year.

1891 - Arthur teaches a 3 year old Isaac to fish. Later that year, Isaac and Eliza are murdered by bandits.

What do you guys think?

Hello everybody! I was playing and this theory came up to my mind. We don't know in details what really happened before the game but some tips we can find in Arthur's Journal and hearing the other members made me think about this.

The gang was an ordinary gang from the beginning (1870s) until 1877 when something happened: Dutch and Hosea were arrested and by unknown means they escaped their cell. So my guess is that Dutch made a pact with The Strange Man to set them free and to be happy.

After that the gang became a family, with Arthur, John, Mrs Grimshawn and etc. And until the game starts they rob 37 banks. So the gang went from zero to hero in 10 years. Dutch was happy living his "dream".

Then the fire happenend (the one Arthur mentions in the beginning his journal) burning everything they have thus forcing them to flee. In my opinion this is the time the Strange man came to collect the debts and Dutch probably do not want to pay. So they started to flee and even after a while Dutch still want them to move. They were going to California and all of a sudden Dutch decided to go to Black Water. Even after finding some land to buy he still wanted to move.

Dutch had a lead for some land we were going to buy [...] or he got spooked we were beign watched by the law and that somebody knew who he was.

Then after a while on Black water camp Arthur says that he heard about someone who looks like Trewlany, i remember reading about how similar both look like. Coincidentally after that Dutch started to talk about moving again. The ferry heist was fucke* up because of the Strange Man, and it is the beginning of the end. Pretty much like what happened to Herbert Moon. His daughter married, was happy, but he was sad. Dutch got what he asked: fame, fortune, but he lost everything else on the way: family, love, even his mind...

https://youtu.be/R1BVjShZz8E?si=r0WWuDdXLEqp3mTX Using this video as reference as it basically just shows the cutscene and a few more parts that I think are important to this idea.

So I'm not sure if anybody else has made this post before but I have somehow only recently seen the cutscene where you meet Ms Hobbs and all her little friends and I thought I'd talk about what I think it means for a little bit.

I have seen the theory claiming that the raccoon, Percival, is a reference to Arthur with his relation to the knights of the round-table and what have you and I'm not discounting that, but to me this entire encounter feels mostly like Rockstar representing themselves as Ms Hobbs to talk to us the player through John. I think the conversation is mostly a thank you to us, appreciating us for appreciating them and a display of everything we have done together as a partnership, their work in making these awesome slices of life and us living within them.

I:

To start with, when John first meets Ms Hobbs he is under the impression that she makes clothes of some sort but she instead replies 'I make art.' When questioned about what she means she adjusts her wording a little to instead say 'Not art, but life... life as art.' Right from the jump, this to me feels like Rockstar pushing aside pre-conceived ideas of what videogames are, saying no this isn't just a videogame, this is a piece of art and their games are attempts at replicating life itself. Obviously quite a huge aspect of RDR2 and all of their titles really.

This continues as the pair go through the house with 'come meet my friends... come meet the world you helped build'. This is a comment to the player that we, by investing our time, money and love in these games, have helped build them into what they are today.

After they get downstairs, we find that the place is littered with small little scenes of life with the animals placed so carefully within their own little story. These represent the games themselves in my opinion. Each scene is handcrafted and filled with so much life and attention to detail that you could almost imagine that they were real and actually happening as seen. She says 'its my lifes work dearie... an almighty struggle', Rockstar pointing out that this is their purpose, this is what they are good at, but it is quite a difficult task in making things that aren't real seem as if they are.

She goes onto say, 'look at these three playing poker, they'll never know who wins, because... they're all dead... Only it doesn't look like it.' This again is a comment on the games, especially this one. The games are so life-like and true to the world that you can almost believe that the game is playing out, but in reality, the NPC's will never actually know who wins or loses because they are not actually real or living, no matter how much is looks like they are.

I think she even gets quite meta with it in the next sentences when she says 'sometimes I make up little funny voices and I make believe that they're all talking to one another.' A comment on literally the voices behind the characters. Actors giving life to people who don't actually exist to make them seem as real as possible.

She then says the Percival line that everyone theorises about, I don't have a better theory for that so I will just go along with what everyone else says for that lol.

After that she says 'I tried this with humans once... no animals are better'. I'm not sure this is actually a reference to any of Rockstar Games' actual attempts at filmmaking as what for what I can tell they only produced one film and that was 'The Football Factory' with Danny Dyer and I personally think that would be quite a niche thing to fit into the script lol, but I do think that this does fit into the theory. They are practically saying, we tried our hands at making stuff that weren't videogames but found ourselves just coming back to it because it is just the superior way to tell the stories they want to tell.

She then gives John the infamous SQUIRREL STATUE! As she is handing it over she says 'oh here, please take this as a gift... because after all, we did this together.' This to me feels like Rockstar saying, especially to the most dedicated of fans who have played this game enough to reach this cutscene, "thank you for playing our games, without you we couldn't make them", and I guess that's true. This is a symbiotic relationship. They make monumental, time capsule, masterpiece videogames and we play and love them in the millions. If we didn't care for the hard work that they put in as much as we do, they wouldn't be able to make them as good as they do, and vice versa. Without John getting the animals for her she couldn't make the art, and without her John would never get such a cool piece of art to enjoy. There's also the glaringly obvious thing about this that everyone immediately notices, the statue looks exactly like John. The art she is giving him is him. The art Rockstar is giving us, is Red Dead Redemption.

She continues to say 'You and I are both like God now.' This really sells to me the idea that this is a joint partnership between Rockstar and us. They are the God's who make the world, and we are the God's who get to live in it from above. We get to know that the world has been created for us to explore it and live through it as if it was real.

She ends the conversation with 'maybe when you die, somebody will stuff you... an maybe heaven is just like this.' I feel like this is questioning our own reality now, whether we live in a simulation or not. If Rockstar can make a game so life-like, so real, who is to say that we are not also just characters in our own video game?

II:

When John gets home he places the SQUIRREL STATUE on his mantle piece. This beautiful piece of art, now an extension of himself sits so proudly as a part of his life that it lives above his fireplace. However Abigail doesn't see it the same way. Her first reaction to the SQUIRREL STATUE is 'what is that?', to which John replies 'its art.', she concludes with 'oh, that's what they call it.' Abigail represents the part of the public who does not understand that videogames can in fact be art.

John proudly tells Abigail that it 'Took me a lot of work to earn that little guy.' and she just hits him with the 'ain't that interesting'. John's comment is pretty much just him talking about all the effort we as the player put in to getting the SQUIRREL STATUE itself while Abigail represents literally anybody who couldn't care any less about how we spent hours in a virtual world hunting animals just for the sake of a virtual piece of art. But it is meaningful to us.

To conclude, I might be reading all too into these scenes but I really do think that I'm right here. It's not a huge discovery or anything but more so just a satisfying conversation to have. Pretty much a 2-way acknowledgment of appreciation for both the craftsmanship that goes into crafting these beautiful games and all the players across the world who choose to spend their time playing them. All thinly disguised through taxidermy and a fairly creepy old lady, just classic Rockstar humour I guess.

Finally, the missions are called 'A Better World, A New Friend'. The game, and us.

I did this timeline basing off in game info provided by dialogues and the Official Red Dead Revolver's Guide descriptions.

-Red was born in 1862

-His parents were killed in 1876

-And he arrived at Brimstone in 1888

1862+14+12=1888

Red was about Jack's age (1911) in the mission Bull's Eye. Doesn't look close to being 9 like ppl says.

Old Pistol's description: "This is the pistol adopted by the U.S. Army in 1875. This particular model takes a .45 caliber. In the hands of a proficient gunner, this weapon can be fired 18 times in 1.5 minutes. The muzzle velocity of this pistol is about 810 ft. per second"

The Old Pistol was already established in the Army by the time the story begins.

Sheriff Bartlett's dialogue: "You see, it all happened about 12 years ago, when the U.S. cavalry made a little incursion South of the border."

And to backup more my 1880s timeline Zwei Fasser is a Hammerless Shotgun, a design that appeared around the 1880s.

Now lets go with Uncle. Uncle's dialogue with Pearson telling his past as an orphan:

Pearson - "How old were you?"

Uncle - "Nine"

Uncle's dialogue during his companion activity:

Arthur- "How old are you anyway?"

Uncle- "Well...lets just say I was born sometime between the Fall of 49 and the Fall of Rome"

1849+9+12=1870

If we do the math with Uncle it doesn't match with Revolver's 1880s timeline. The timeline I put together would make Red 45 years old in 1907, so he could be alive in RDR2. Now, there's one thing that doesn't match with this timeline and is the fact that irl El Pacificador (1851 Navy revolver) came out before Old Pistol (1858 New Army).

El Pacificador's description: "This is the Mexican Army's modified version of the U.S. Army's .45 pistol. The elongated and grooved barrel increases the velocity of this gun. Diego's men are armed with the Pacificador"

Making only these two guns kind of out of time in Red Dead Revolver. But since there are text errors and a lot of glitches in the game these problem can be solve by saying that is just a mistake made by the game developers. Since there are small mistakes like these in the game for example Zwei Fasser's name (in game weapon) meaning Two Barrels in German but in German the word barrel is used for liquid containers so the correct translation would be Zwei Rohre which means Two Tubes.

Don't take this as facts since its just my theory and I just wanted to give a clear idea of when the game might be set since there are ppl saying "No is around the 1860s or "I think is in the early 1880s" And yes the events of Red Dead Revolver are considered non canon with Redemption's universe but there are places that look like Revolver's locations like Twin Rocks and Two Crows (just nods to the "OG" Red Dead)

(Image by u/MajesticCaptain8052)

What if karma was more than just a bar? What if releasing fish did not make up for killing innocent folk? And what if karma implied things to do and things NOT to do?

I mean, if you go high honor, is it a good idea to drink from a mysterious cauldron next to human remains? Or steal an old, possibly cursed indian ring from a miserable drunk (even if it's unique)? Should we kill legendary animals for trinkets and fur? Tatanka is a god for Lakota people... Should an honorable man be (knowingly) responsible for the extinction of an entire species of birds?

I still believe that camp discussions with the girls are there to show that Arthur is uncomfortable with the things we make him do, and can be seen as "karma checkpoints". Everyone seems to believe that these discussions are completely scripted. I think they slightly differ depending on your actions ingame, but you have to be extra-careful.

As far as I know, for the first discussion with Mary Beth, it's possible to avoid the lines about killing animals needlesly by not killing ANY animal needlessly. No overkilling (1, maybe 2 animals a day), only perfect kills, no waste. (So no "first to shoot 4 birds", or "5 birds from a moving train" challenges). I also avoided lines about robbing or murdering innocent by... not doing it. At all. All that remains is the "I should help people" line, so I think there is still more good actions I missed. And there are traps, like the ladykiller from the saloon...

Playing this way would mean avoiding lots of things, but you still can do all the missed challenges/content you missed as John and go for 100% in the epilogue. You also can go for the complete opposite with a "bad Arthur, good John", but it would feel less "cannon".

So here is the theory: what if there were secrets based on honor, which would need to be an angel (or a complete maniac) to be triggered?

There are two types of petroglyph near Mount Shann (thx MajesticCaptain5082 for the file), the red ones look way more evil than the white ones, and these are the colors for good/bad honor. Maybe it's a clue. Also 2 animal masks (green/red) and two lines (also green/red) at the burial site, and red/green ufos. Is this really a coincidence?

What do you think?

​

Some theorise that Micah Bell was a traitor from the start and I find this theory interesting.

Do let me know your thoughts

I've been doing my first low honor playthrough the past week and as I was doing the last mission as Arthur where you rob the train. When I was riding with John a certain line of dialogue triggered that can only be triggered if you have low honor. In which Arthur mentions once they get the money, Arthur plans to slip away and lay low somewhere warm and dry in the west in hopes to help cure his tuberculosis.

Now as some of you probably know according to the games files, Arthur was originally meant to be able to enter New Austin and Blackwater but was cut from the game. Most believe that the cut content was that Prologue was supposed to take place in Blackwater and New Austin, which is why some side missions such as "The Noblest of Men, and a Woman" include cut content from new Austin, such as where you would find a gunslinger by the name of "Frank Heck" in the saloon in Tumbleweed. (more information on that here: https://youtu.be/ZYBhlpofMw4?t=118)

However that wouldn't make much sense considering that side mission starts in valentine AFTER the blackwater massacre so Arthur would have no way of getting to New Austin and finishing the side mission. This case is similar to the side mission "A Test of Faith" in which the player, playing as either John or Arthur must collect 30 Dinosaur Bones, 8 of which are in New Austin and cannot be found as Arthur unless you were to use a glitch or a mod, as the invisible sniper kills you when you enter New Austin as Arthur.

So my theory is that Arthur was originally planned to survive the ending of chapter 6 and live in New Austin either by faking his death or changing his alias similar to how John changed his to "Jim Milton". This could also explain why Arthur isn't mentioned in RDR1 as he would by lying low under a new name.

Another theory is that it could've been planned for Arthur to lay low in another warm dry climate like Mexico in order to evade the law in the United States, which could explain why Mexico was also originally planned to be in the game, with it being in the game's files as well. Mind you it couldn't have been possible for John to be able to go to Mexico, for he mentions never being in Mexico before in RDR1.

In conclusion this was my theory to how Arthur was originally supposed to survive the ending of chapter 6. Any thoughts, feedback, questions, etc, are greatly appreciated, this is my first real theory as well as my first post on this subreddit so let me know what you guys think! 🤠👍

EDIT: I made a seperate comment explaining a few other possible theories and unanswered questions to this that u guys might have so make sure to check that out if you want! ❤

We all know about the jack marston voice lines, and many people think that it is for a rdr remastered. Well, that would be a reasonable explanation but I have a different theory. Undead Nightmare 2. We will play as jack marston in the undead nightmare sequel. This makes sense because we would not be able to play a prequel of undead nightmare because in the game it states that this was the first time the apocalypse occurred( also reasons out John and Arthur) More evidence is that is that at the end of undead 1 it shows Seth stealing the mask again, leading perfectly into a sequel where jack marston must end the zombie apocalypse again. What are your thoughts on this/ do you agree or disagree? Thanks for reading. Edit: a lot of people are commenting on the jack marston voice lines being debunked. 1) if the voice of jack could glitch into your character somehow why couldn’t it glitch on to other npc’s 2)even if it was a glitched npc voice the theory would still work.

Sister Calderon is one of few characters outside the gang to appear in both RDR1 and 2. 

In RDR1, we first meet her in the second part of the Stranger side mission, "I Know You". The Strange Man directs us to her in Nuevo Paraiso, suggesting John either help her or rob her.

When he arrives at Las Hermanas, John skeptically asks "Ain't it the Lord's responsibility to watch over his flock?" To which the Sister replies "But the Lord has brought you to me, so you could help me." It's curious the Strange Man could know exactly where Sister Calderon was and what she was doing, but it's well established there's far more to him than meets the eye.

It seems generally agreed the Strange Man was testing John's morality. To what end, we're not sure. The Strange Man appears 3 times, testing John's morality. First in New Austin with the cheating guy in Thieves Landing, then in Mexico with Sister Calderon, and lastly in West Elizabeth.

Sister Calderon? Why, Arthur meets her 3 times. First when the boy steals her crucifix (We also happen to meet Mrs Downes just as soon as Arthur recovers the crucifix... quite a coincidence.) A second time when Arthur can donate food/money to the poor, and finally at Emerald Ranch for that scene.

Most telling of all is the Sister's line at Emerald Ranch.

"I've lived a bad life, Sister."

"We've all lived bad lives, Mr Morgan. We all sin. But I Know You." 

Go watch it again. There's a lot of emphasis on those words. And what's the name of the Strange Man's mission? I. Know. You. Even their designs are similar, with black and white clothing.

As far as I can tell, Sister Calderon and the Strange Man are two aspects of the same entity, testing the morality of our two heroes, seeing if they've really changed.

Let me know what you guys think.

All the clues I used are in Algernon Wasp's cutsenes, hidden behind wordplay.

He talks about "aristocracy", "old family bloodlines", "money lending", "want to say no, but I cant't", and Italy. (There's more but i don't want to speculate too much.)

I believe her family was crushed by debt, and sold her to Angelo Bronte (just as Catherine Braithwaite did with Jack).

I'm not saying she can be found, but I'm starting to hope. It would be very difficult though, since, as Algernon says: "she is very demanding".

so, how the hell do u think the pinkertons (and ROSS specifically) got to Micha's body? by accident? they just went to a stroll in a remote location far from civilization and stumbled upon it?

NO.

Micha told them he'd bring em Dutch TO THAT SPOT, they even gave him the Blackwater money so he could lure Dutch more easily!

​

the sad thing is, if John and friends wouldn't have got to that mountain at that exact time, and Dutch would've been handed to the pinkertons - John could've lived a longer life cause RDR just wouldn't happen.

so it's kinda crazy that in that moment, Dutch may have saved John's life, but he also sealed his fate.

​

as the blind mam tells John: "They will come for you, friend, and when they do you will not have a choice. You have lived better than most."

which foreshadows John's future in 2 ways: the whole plot of the first game, and its ending.

at least the "You have lived better than most." provides some comfort.

​

P.S.

Ross may have been fixated on f**king up John's life to avenge his old boss being shot in the head by Abigail.

​

P.S. 2

Some say Dutch stayed the same in the encounters of the 1st game, i think he did some soul searching. him trying to help Native Americans (in his twisted, messed up way) was his try to atone for what he did to Rain Falls's tribe.

and don't forget about leaving all that MONEH (his #1 motive throughout the game) for his "Kids".

​

UPDATE 1/2/19:

a lot of insightful comments here led me to another thought:

Dutch came to that mountain all ready to die - “Same as you, I suppose” - he got close to Micha (knowing or not-knowing that it's a set-up) with the intent of killing him, knowing his crew will most likely kill him in the seconds after.

he didn't come for the money. he came for revenge and, some kind of Redemption.

so basically, Dutch Saved John, but also John saved Dutch, by "Clearing the way" for him. and extending his life until the next time they'll meet on a mountain.

​

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So I think I might actually be on to something here that I haven’t read in other theories.

Most of the theories out there have only searched for clues in overlapping it on the map (me included) and that the arrow in the compass shows how to overlap it.

I went through some pictures from my investigation and noticed that the star in the upper left is representative as a compass can be. No news there..

Also, I have always had a problem with the theory that you would have to use a computer or in other way make it overlap to be solved, so here is my theory!

1. The compass star and arrow doesn’t show how to turn the map, it shows where it should be used!

2. The arrow points SW and if you check the map, that’s towards the indian burial site.

3. In the burial site you have a circle with green and red lines, the red line goes from south to north. There is also rocks to form the circle.

4. In the end of the lines on the map there are dots OR it could represent markings for gunshots.

5. We have some clear triggers, explained further down.

So the theory I investigate, and would love to get all you out the still searching for mysteries to help out with, is that the map is the key to the burial site.

The starting point probably is in the middle of the circle. The map shows what points too possibly shoot at and in what order or shows spots to go to.

I think that it’s timebased. You start it with firebottles and it starts when the lightning hit the rock. The time you have to complete it is until the rain stops, why I think it’s not a long ride on your horse to destionations, it’s something on site!

I also think it includes the right cloths, if you look at the site, you can see painting of sculls so I would bet on the scull mask for exemple, we maybe even need the right time of day.

My first thougth is to try something out with shooting sculls or other parts around the site. Or run to some of the spots.

Sooo why would this be different from all other theories?

1. The map can be used ”in-game” without any external attributes. The circle can help us get exact match with the map. And it is pointing is to a location where the map actually can be decoded.

2. Obvious triggers on site that still has no real explanation to something.

3. There is still no good solution out there.

4. This can’t be or should be very hard datamine why it still haven’t got a solution.

Extra: Even the sundial might have a finger in the game here helping is guide out something from the colors of the arrows.

Hopefully someone gets interested and dig into with me :)

I don’t know if this has been covered before but I think Micah has always been a Pinkerton. I think this for many reason, for instance the ferry job in black water was the first job that went majorly wrong and it was heavily pushed by Micah. But I mainly think he was a Pinkerton from the start because of the last mission. I just find it weird that nearly a whole decade Micah disappears and when he has a chance to get four gang members (Dutch,John,Sadie and Charles) that’s when he just shows up. We also know it’s Micah’s death that causes the plot of rdr1 so maybe that was a huge plan that the Pinkertons had before that mission even took place.

This is just something I thought of one night and decided to research if it has been done before feel free to call me out on it and if you have anything to add feel free

We all know that Bill was a veteran of the American - Indian Wars. But is it possible that he was assigned to the same army unit that started the Wounded Knee Massacre (or whatever the Red Dead equivalent would be called)? I don't have anything concrete, but I do have some circumstantial evidence:

Bill was in the cavalry

While his discharge papers indicate that he was a part of the 15th Infantry Unit, it's mentioned several times that he was also a part of the cavalry:

- Bill tells Micah he was in the cavalry (Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wakj0q8sXJs)

- Dutch mentions that Bill was in the cavalry (Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uf7Owoi9PpQ).

- Bill has a pin on his hat that bears the U.S Cavalry Insignia.

Why is this important? The unit that attacked Wounded Knee was the 7th Cavalry Unit. It's possible that he was a part of that unit.

Time Frame

Wounded Knee happened in 1890 and Bill would've been 17 years old by 1883. Bill would've had plenty of time to have joined the 7th Cavalry Unit before 1890.

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder

Bill appears to be suffering from PTSD due to his times in the American - Indian Wars. The problem is that by the 1880's, the wars were pretty much over. By then all the Native American's were forced to live on the reservations, like we see with the Wapiti Tribe. So what's ailing Bill? Perhaps the Wounded Knee Massacre, which is considered to be the last major confrontation of the wars.

Other battles he could've participated in

Going through my research, I found out that Bill would've been too young to have served during the height of the Indian Wars. But there are a couple battles that he could've participated in, assuming he was a part of the 7th Cavalry Unit:

The Battle of Crow Agency (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crow_War)

The Battle of Drexel Mission (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drexel_Mission_Fight)

Bill's relationship with Native Americans

Bill has an interesting relationship with Native Americans. On one hand, he calls them derogatory names like "savages" and "injuns". On the other hand, he doesn't seem to actually hate Native Americans.

- He and Charles can be seen walking together in the opening cutscene of "An Honest Mistake" (Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoT_S1T9KqA). This suggests that he actually get along with Charles.

- Bill, if begrudgingly, helps Rains' Fall stop the tribe from attacking the oil field (Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZqH7wi-ZRw).

- A Native American man a part of Bill's gang shoots John in the abdomen (Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nDjcFmLfRw). Keep in mind, it's his gang so he can choose who can or cannot join.

I think Bill might feel bad about his (supposed) role in the Wounded Knee Massacre. Some soldiers reported feeling guilt about massacre of the Native Americans afterwards, so maybe Bill also felt guilty.

Perhaps this is why he has such a mixed opinion of Native Americans. He fought against them in Crow Agency and Drexel Mission, but massacred them in Wounded Knee.

Edit: Fixed "apart" to "a part".

-Gonna be another long one-

When we see the town (if you can call it that) of Van Horn it is in a sorry state. A burned skeleton of a Sheriff's Office, docks in ruins, and every other building that the player is able to enter in a state of disrepair. Moreover, the town is completely devoid of any strangers that don't have a touch alcoholism. However, Van Horn does have its own real life counterpart, that is the district of Natchez Mississippi known as the Under-the-Hill District. A side by side of of Van Horn and this Natchez district is provided below.

Van Horn:
https://socialclub.rockstargames.com/photo/rdr2/ZpA0Pm2Ik0ahtgMEcz-UJA
Natchez Under-the-Hill District:

(If Image is unavailable a link will be provided at the end of the post)

History/Context:

Natchez was the one of the ends of the "Old Natchez Trail" which connected Natchez to Nashville Tennessee. The trail had been a Native American route but after the founding of the United States and subsequent territorial expansion, the trail became common for people of all walks of life who intended to travel by land to the deep south from the North/Central Atlantic States.

As a direct result, those of low money and low reputation found themselves in Natchez and the Under-the-Hill District. This is written about the port,
"Boatmen, gamblers, river pirates, highwaymen and Prostitutes populated the port, of which one visitor wrote in 1810: '...for the size of it, there is not perhaps in the world, a more dissipated spot.'"

The Under-the-Hill District as we can see has a negative reputation since the very beginning of the 19th century. However, there is more here to consider from 1840 and the 1862 during the Civil War. Beginning with the 1840s,
"One of the most severest blows to the image of Under-the-Hill as in the words of one critic, 'The early American Sodom' was dealt not by vigilantes (NOTE: Crime in Van Horn isn't dealt with by the law, but the whole town drawing its guns) but by the tornado of 1840. Contemporary newspaper accounts indicate the landing was devastated, with 400 lives lost and over one hundred flatboats, two steamboats, a ferry, and numerous buildings destroyed by strong winds and waves ten to fifteen feet high."

This could explain the state of the docks as well as why there doesn't appear to be any administration to the town whatsoever. Furthermore, this next quotation goes further in depth about Under-the-Hill and more reasons why we may find Van Horn in the state that it is at the start of the game.
"At the beginning of the Civil War, fourteen companies of Confederate soldiers debarked from Under-the-Hill, but actual conflict did not reach it until September 2, 1862. On that date a gunboat from the USS Essex landed to procure ice for sick crew members and was fired upon by the home guard. In retaliation for killing one seaman and the wounding of five others, the Essex shelled the Natchez heights and the landing, but the latter, being more exposed to gun range, suffered greater damage both from the bombardment and the fires which followed. One civilian, a seven-year-old girl was killed before the town unconditionally surrendered."

From the quotation above we can see one possible reason that the Sheriff's Office in Van Horn is a burned skeleton in the setting of Red Dead Redemption 2.

Theory:

From all research and evidence complied, I believe that the state of Van Horn we find in Red Dead Redemption 2 is a very similar result that we see in its real life equivalent.

Van Horn's reputation of housing a whole host of strangers with low repute, combined with the towns partial destruction through natural disaster (1840) and war (1862), would be a strong indicator of why women and children have decided to steer clear of the site all together. This can also explain why the men we do see are all around Van Horn are squatting in the abandoned Hotel or in the burned Sheriff's Office, with the more upstanding folk huddled around the coach/lodging house next to the Fence.

It is also relevant to point out that on the south side of town behind the buildings and on the ridge, there is a graveyard of considerable size. But what is unique about the graveyard is that there are no names or dates engraved on any of the headstones. Its only defining feature is that one of the graves was freshly dug. I would explain this by pointing out that basically the whole permanent population of the town are drunkards/drifters or both. All strangers to one another, drinking their days away.

Lastly, the lack of any products or tourist draw combined with the partial destruction of the town is most likely the reason why Van Horn doesn't appear as a embarking/disembarking location for the railroad, the only fast travel option to reach the town outside of the camp is to take the Coach.

Van Horn is a sorry town with a sad populace drinking their sorrows into their grave. In my opinion, its even a more depressing place than it lets on in appearances. Links are provided below with all the links to the IRL sources.

Old Natchez Trail wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natchez_Trace

Under-the-Hill Wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natchez_Bluffs_and_Under-the-Hill_Historic_District#cite_ref-nrhpdoc_2-1

National Park Service on the History of Under the Hill (Quotes used found on pages 11 &12):
https://npgallery.nps.gov/NRHP/GetAsset/NRHP/72000685_text

Additional Images of Under-the-Hill (Image used found on Page 13):
https://npgallery.nps.gov/NRHP/GetAsset/NRHP/72000685_photos

Happy Mystery Solving!

Howdy folks!

For those that don’t know, the the Reutlinger Watch is a collectible watch that is awarded to you in the mission: A Fine Night of Debauchery. On the face of the watch, the Roman numeral VIII (8) is replaced by the Roman numeral XIII (13)...and it is quite the controversial subject around these parts, I reckon.

For some unknown reason, there are a lot of people that believe that this is a mistake made by the devs. There is zero evidence to support this claim. Given the attention to detail on the watch, the attention to detail in the game, and because it is part of a story mission, I think it’s very unlikely for it to be there by mistake.

Ironically, someone who who thought it was a mistake, gave me this possible answer. While writing this up, I offered to give him full credit for this, but he declined.

I think it could possibly be referencing the Fibonacci Number/ Sequence

1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34 etc.

https://youtu.be/wTlw7fNcO-0

This sequence ties directly into the Golden Ratiobecause if you take any two successive Fibonacci numbers, their ratio is very close to the Golden ratio. As the numbers get higher, the ratio becomes even closer to 1.618. For example, the ratio of 3 to 5 is 1.666. ... Getting even higher, the ratio of 144 to 233 is 1.618...1.618 is called phi . Coincidentally, 13 is followed by 21 in the Fibonacci Sequence. Phi just happens to be the 21st letter of the Greek alphabet.

That is the possible meaning of it, but I still don’t know it’s purpose. It’s either a cool little thing put on the watch to make it unique, or it is some sort of a clue that can be used somewhere. Someone that’s far better at math than I, can see if it fits in with anything.

Btw...Did you know that the Reutlinger watch is in GTAO? It’s just called the rare pocket watch, and it’s worth $150,000!!!

As probably everyone here know it by now, there's a weird guy in the swamps that invites Arthur to his house and well, he basically rapes him and abandons him in the swamps.

I'm really into stories about serial killers and yesterday I bumped into the story about the Bayou killer and I got interested because this place appears in RDR2.

Ronald Dominique was sentenced for life for raping and murdering more than 23 men and boys between 1997 and 2006. His way of action was to lure the victims to his house to rape them. To get rid of evidence he used to strangle them and abandon the bodies somewhere in the swamps.

The story is kinda similar to our creepy friend from Bayou swamps in RDR2 and I thought it could be interesting to share cause I haven't found any post like this in this r/.