r/reddeadmysteries • u/Triggerman48 • Oct 01 '20
Theory Sister Calderon and the Strange Man are one and the same.
Sister Calderon is one of few characters outside the gang to appear in both RDR1 and 2.
In RDR1, we first meet her in the second part of the Stranger side mission, "I Know You". The Strange Man directs us to her in Nuevo Paraiso, suggesting John either help her or rob her.
When he arrives at Las Hermanas, John skeptically asks "Ain't it the Lord's responsibility to watch over his flock?" To which the Sister replies "But the Lord has brought you to me, so you could help me." It's curious the Strange Man could know exactly where Sister Calderon was and what she was doing, but it's well established there's far more to him than meets the eye.
It seems generally agreed the Strange Man was testing John's morality. To what end, we're not sure. The Strange Man appears 3 times, testing John's morality. First in New Austin with the cheating guy in Thieves Landing, then in Mexico with Sister Calderon, and lastly in West Elizabeth.
Sister Calderon? Why, Arthur meets her 3 times. First when the boy steals her crucifix (We also happen to meet Mrs Downes just as soon as Arthur recovers the crucifix... quite a coincidence.) A second time when Arthur can donate food/money to the poor, and finally at Emerald Ranch for that scene.
Most telling of all is the Sister's line at Emerald Ranch.
"I've lived a bad life, Sister."
"We've all lived bad lives, Mr Morgan. We all sin. But I Know You."
Go watch it again. There's a lot of emphasis on those words. And what's the name of the Strange Man's mission? I. Know. You. Even their designs are similar, with black and white clothing.
As far as I can tell, Sister Calderon and the Strange Man are two aspects of the same entity, testing the morality of our two heroes, seeing if they've really changed.
Let me know what you guys think.
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u/Wlcm2TheDrksideUknob Oct 01 '20
I know in RDR 1, they both have a donkey with them at one point. The 2nd time you meet the Strange Man, while he’s stoking the fire in a camp, there’s a donkey standing there. When you meet Sister Calderon, there is a donkey with her. Don’t know if it’s the same one or not.
The Strange Man, and Sister Calderon being the same entity, would fit into the duality theme, that’s very obvious in the game.....but, I think that there might even be more to the two....
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u/GrimyPorkchop Oct 01 '20 edited Oct 01 '20
Or R* just really wanted to put another
Mule for Sister Maryreference in.Edit: Two Mules For Sister Sara
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u/LogicalHeron2243 Jul 10 '24
He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.”
Genesis 16:12
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u/juisti Oct 01 '20
What if Strange man and nun are satan and god? Testing which side John/Arthur wanna take. Little competition maybe?
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u/HyperVenom23 Oct 01 '20
I think god is far fetched but it could be that they work in unison, there’s a lot that suggests the strange man is the grim reaper so why not sister Calderon be an angel that helps direct lost souls toward a good path while they live their last days? Idk both seem far fetched to me, I think the strange man is one thing and sister Calderon is just a nun but maybe not
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u/zadidoll Oct 01 '20
Why would it be far fetched? It reminds me of the scene in some movie (maybe “Bedazzled” or “Oh God! You Devil!”) between God & the Devil. So Sister Calderon being a God aspect (or an Angel sent to test someone) isn’t that far fetched at all.
I think it was “Bedazzled” because the Devil was played by Elizabeth Hurley & in “Oh God! You Devil” both parts were played by George Burns.
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Oct 01 '20
Not to mention that God and Satan literally competed over Job in the Bible, doing essentially tests of his morality/faith in God. So it’s not even out of the question from a purely theological standpoint. I totally buy it. If they aren’t literally “God” and “Satan,” they’re at least some kind of parallel forces either competing or working in unison to test our characters.
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u/sickfuckinpuppies Oct 01 '20
they weren't really competing in the games. the nun was there for arthur, strange man for john.
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u/OnlyMogo Oct 01 '20
Wouldn’t make sense since the strange man gives you the choice to be good anyway.
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u/haylen_gerhard Oct 01 '20
If the devil forces a man to sin, what has he proven to God other than his own malevolence?
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u/No-BrowEntertainment Oct 01 '20
Yeah I think you’re right. It would make sense if Strange Man were trying to lure John/Arthur towards the dark side, but he’s testing them fairly to see which side they choose. Sounds like he’s got the job handled himself
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Oct 01 '20 edited Oct 01 '20
You're right in saying they're one in the same, but wrong in implying they're the same entity.
Strange Man is the personification of Death; the Grim Reaper. He works in mysterious ways, but he is not able to resurrect the deceased he only guides them to the afterlife whether that be Heaven, Hell or Limbo.
Sister Calderon is a nun, a woman devoted to God. She's there to give Arthur hope and put his dying mind at ease, that's partially what nuns do or used to do. They cared for the sick and dying, Arthur is in this category.
You know this as Reverend Orville Swanson will act as Arthur's guide and becomes his beacon of Hope. This is very noticeable as at this particular point in the Story, the Reverend has cleaned up from his addiction and begins his own journey of Redemption.
He doesn't appear as calming or godly as Calderon appears because we as well as Arthur knew him at his worst moments.
She never asked Arthur to be good or do good, she already knows hes a good man for various reasons.
Most if not all Nuns believe everyone is good at heart, no one is fully evil. Except for Lucifer, in my experience they tend to hate him.
Arthur is incredibly polite, isnt racist nor homophobic and he is incredibly open minded as he is best friends with Charles a Native American & African American man.
He mourns the loss of Lenny a black man, Hosea a Catholic Father Figure. He is saddened by Kieran's death despite barely knowing him.
Arthur is shown to be agnostic, not knowing if god exists or not which is why Strange Man doesn't directly appear before him as he does with John. This is because John does believe in God.
Despite not being guided be the divine lord Arthur still frequently proves to be good; he saves a fair amount of people from dying before their time. Whether they be good or bad.
Sadie Adler, John Marston, Sean McGuire, Jimmy Brooks, Micah Bell, The Widow, The Rhodes Boy (gunsmith basement), Bill Willamson, Josiah Trelawny, Jamie Gilis, Mrs Downes & her Son, Beau Gray, Penelope Braithwaite, Abigail Roberts, Jack Marston, Tilly Jackson, Simon Pearson, Karen Jones, Mary-Beth Gaskill, Reverend Swanson, Charles Smith, Women being attacked, kidnapped & stranded in random events.
Not to mention he ended the killing sprees of Edmund Lowry Jr, Ellie (the black widow) & The Medicine Guy, they're all serial killers. Bringing them to justice saved many potential victims.
Anyway; they're the same as they're both Religious Figures. Personfied Death is often associated Christianity & other religions while Calderon is a Nun of Christianity.
But she is not the Reaper, however there is a chance she's some kind of Angel maybe not in the literal sense.
Either way, I like the theory.
Edit:
Another thing connecting Arthur to biblical events are the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
Death - He follows Arthur & eventually takes his soul to the afterlife.
Wraith - Micah Bell & Dutch Van Der Linde grow increasingly more violent and vengeful.
Pestilence - Arthur becomes sick & it eventually takes his life.
Famine - Due to his illness Arthur cannot eat, drink or breathe without difficulty and loses vast amounts of weight & energy.
Each are combined too, Arthur let's Wraith in & ends up bring Death into Thomas Downes thus introducing Pestilence & closely followed by Famine.
Little theory for ye
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u/Wombatapult Oct 01 '20
There isn't actually a horseman of the apocalypse that's representative of "Pestilence."
That's an entirely modern re-invention. In the actual bible the horsemen are Conquest, Famine, War and Death.
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u/uncle_tyrone Oct 01 '20
If they’re not the same entity, they are at least connected. This sounds very plausible. Agree with other commenters here this should have more upvotes
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u/DivraElo Oct 01 '20
Wow, I think you are right! Never thought of this, but as soon as I read your well written point, I thought «of course they are one and the same!». Feel like I should have noticed this myself as i played through the game. They having similar clothing, both are encountered three times, and their lines are similar, and both act so calm, is absolutely classic Rockstar/RDR! Well done sir!
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u/DwergNout Oct 01 '20
finally an actual theory and quality post yet it doesnt even have 100 upvotes
this sub has turned into a "share your picture of an easteregg that has been found a billion times" instead of the mystery sub it claims to be
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u/kidalive25 Oct 01 '20
I love this angle, I just almost feel like The Strange Man is a broker between the two sides. Sister Calderon in this case symbolically on the side of good and an unknown third character representing evil in this same capacity?
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u/No-BrowEntertainment Oct 01 '20
It’s a good theory, but I’m not sure how true it is
Strange Man tests our heroes to see which choice they make. Good or bad, moral or immoral, he’s just there to watch. He doesn’t need a counterpart in this scenario
But think about this. Strange Man is the personification of Death, something not of this world. So what’s the counterpart to death?
Life.
I think you’re right about some details here, but overall I believe Calderon is Strange Man’s counterpart in that she is the personification of Life. She’s human, don’t doubt that, but she serves in the story to counteract the death and otherworldly-ness brought by Strange Man
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u/grey_0R_gray PS4 Oct 01 '20
I enjoy this theory, but I just watched the alternate scenes back and Reverend says “I know you” in a similar way to the Sister.
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u/OnlyMogo Oct 01 '20
Yea but she’s way more prevalent in RDR 1 and 2 while the strange man is always elusive, I genuinely think she’s just a nun.
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u/MagicalMarsBars Oct 01 '20
It is weird that she says that she knows you when you have barely been with her so I completely agree with what you are saying
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u/OnlyMogo Oct 02 '20
She means I know you as in like I know how you are really, it’s a term used in normal conversation all the time.
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u/MagicalMarsBars Oct 02 '20
But there is not really much proof that she can make that assumption. I get that to see her at the train station you need high honour but you still do a lot of killing throughout the game. Most of Arthur’s kindness is not known by people
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u/Jennnanigans Oct 01 '20
Hm. I haven't played RDR1 yet (only got into RDR2 in August and there's just so much to do and enjoy), but I have seen the StrangeMan video on YT about Strange Man and found the house in Lemoyne. There's definitely evidence hinting that Strange Man has some kind of supernatural power (his knowing things, the changing nature of his house). I don't see that in Sister Calderon, BUT...
In popular culture, the Devil is often shown using his powers to influence someone. Of the two, the Devil is always shown as more proactive an influence. This is because humans have free will, and showing God or goodness actively swaying someone defeats the purpose of free will. Humans have to choose goodness on faith, otherwise God has cheated at a game He set up. If Strange Man is an agent of the Devil or the Devil himself, that tracks. I haven't seen Strange Man himself in the game but the YT footage shows him implying he knows things about the character.
It's worth pointing out that Calderon only says 'I Know You' to Arthur after he has performed good acts she personally knows about, so her experience is direct whereas Strange Man in RDR1 seems to have come by knowledge supernaturally. But she also says it because she has faith that Arthur has the potential to be a good man, and faith is one of the foundations of Christianity.
My point is I agree with you that Strange Man is definitely drawing a paycheck with 666 as the return address, but I'm not so sure that Sister Calderon is an angel.
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u/BOYCOTTSQUID Oct 01 '20
this needs more upvotes, this is one of the best posts i’ve seen on this subreddit in a while
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Oct 01 '20
Nice theory, partner! Haven’t seen such a well composed idea ‘round these parts in a looong time.
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u/titanlmao Oct 01 '20
Maybe the monk has something to do with it too. I mean he introduced you to sister calderon and also had a morality mission
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Oct 01 '20
The strangeman is almost certianly papa legba from haitian vodou and prior to that Nigerian yoruba. Rstar even went as far as reserching the vodou veves that invoke them. Papa legba is the devil at the crossroads he controls lifes paths. He is the protector of dogs and presents you with a choice at your personal crossroads to your lifes path. He doesn't decide fates he offers a choice at key moment of your life.
The fact that there are no roads or paths to his house is a nod to this. The painting only advances after interacting with him.
And regardless the devil and the crossroads in modern interpretation all stems from yoruba. He was considered a trickster, since he would always present a wrong choice but was never really considered evil. In fact in yoruba cultures when they adopted christianity he was not prtrayed as lucifer he was portrayed as saint peter. In american voodoo hes portrayed as the devil at the crossroads but they dont mean lucifer. He is a devil, not the devil.
At the end of the day even if it wasnt intentional this character stems from the mythology of vodou and vodoo, period. This is true in blues and jazz and folk music etc there is no other source for this character, no other inspiration. But the fact that it contains well researched nods vodou culture and the story takes place in one of the centers of vodou religion it is certianly papa legba.
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u/Necessary-Pie-5561 Feb 01 '21
Louisiana.... Voodoo..... Lemoyne....I think you are seriously onto something here that seemingly every single other person may have missed. You should start a YouTube channel because you seem to have a eye for this kind of stuff seriously
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u/Asconisti Story Mode Oct 24 '20
Strange Man is some kind of a unnatural being but the Sister is just a nun
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Oct 01 '20
The only problem with this is that trelawny is the strange man thus already knows what arthur is like.
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u/RudeMaintenance7742 Nov 25 '23
I agree with you. I found an article talking about this too. I think they are either Death or God. I wouldn’t be surprised.
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u/[deleted] Oct 01 '20 edited Apr 13 '21
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