r/reddeadmysteries • u/InternetCulture81 • Sep 14 '20
Theory Princess Isabeau is a time traveler kidnapped by the epsilon program
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u/paydaysucks Sep 14 '20 edited Sep 14 '20
I like the idea of this because it actually kinda makes a little sense in a way. Everyone likes to chalk IKZ up to cut content but I think it might just be more of a passive storytelling device and it definitely fits with the Francis Sinclair/epsilon/time traveling theory. I’ll bite.
Edit: just because her character model was cut doesn’t mean they “forgot” about the IKZ wanted poster and newspaper articles. That’s deliberate. So faced with the actual evidence the game gives us this makes the most sense to me. That, OR she was just bushwhacked and that’s life in the old west. Either makes sense and is ok with me.
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Sep 14 '20 edited Sep 14 '20
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u/paydaysucks Sep 14 '20 edited Sep 14 '20
I feel the same way about Gavin. He seems to me to be like R* response to Chilliad freaks spending years looking for unimportant trivial things in a game.
Edit: Getting downvoted for an opinion that actually makes sense. Dang.
To demonstrate, we have THE most beautifully realized open world western game with soooooooooooo much to do. But Bc we cant “finish” the IKZ or Gavin “quest”, this game is ass. I feel like most good books and movies don’t give you everything. There’s uncertainties you will never know. Maybe this is rockstars attempt at that.
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Sep 14 '20
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Sep 14 '20
Also kinda solidifies that they're just mortals and not fucking superheroes. Even though the typical Rockstar character is over the top, so to say, unsolved mysteries and dead ends help make the world more realistic. Like, even with all the content we actually can do/solve, how much of that would realistically happen to one person? It's nice it's there for gameplay's sake, but it's very unlikely that one person would just stumble across all these things at random without them happening to others first. I hope there'll be more seemingly random encounters and dead ends if they ever make a third game, because honestly, it makes everything more alive and not just centered around you and your experience.
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u/PhoenixNFL Sep 14 '20
These people who complaing about an "unfinished storyline" can also be found posting in r/TheLastOfUs2
Weird specimen of people.
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Sep 14 '20
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Sep 15 '20
Well we know for a fact that the book is not over because online still has a lot of story that hasnt been released yet.
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u/paydaysucks Sep 17 '20
But that’s why I’m saying maybe this is R*’s attempt at that. Gaming is an entirely different medium driven by participation. Sure there could be an aspect of “is there more?” But I like to think they planted seeds for a story there and it’s up to us how we want to fill that story in. Especially when we naturally come to Van Horn after Guarma. The start of Arthur’s “redemption”. Maybe it’s just a thought experiment to get you to think about Arthur’s mortality and morality. Maybe it is a secret. Idk I just don’t think a company as well staffed, financed, and with a history of impeccable titles, would just forget to tie something up or remove it.
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u/Dath123 Sep 14 '20
There isn't really anything that shows her model was actually cut, like content that was cut has developer notes.
Her model also gets updated along with all the others, while the ones we know are cut are never updated.
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u/TheDanteEX Oct 13 '20
I think the IKZ stuff was told as far as they wanted or needed to. Do people expect some kind of secret mission? They can't expect Arthur to actually start investigating, right? He wouldn't bother. It's like how Arthur finds the man who dies on the way to pick up his new bride. Arthur has all the information but he doesn't leave this with anybody to give the wife closure. He doesn't really care or concern himself with stuff like this. He could easily send the note for Bonnie to MacFarlane's Ranch but he doesn't have any interest in doing so. The chest in the fence's shop is about all the information we need to make suggestions, but it's never going to be solved because there's nothing more to solve. It's background fluff to make the world more alive.
I guess I'm contradicting the point of this sub, but there's actual tangible stuff to latch on to that I think is worth investing time into.
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u/KawaiiStefan Oct 18 '20
Cherry picking. What about chasing a midget throught the woods just because... reasons? Or helping a random crossdresser find his lost animals?
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u/Dath123 Oct 13 '20
There is dialogue from the fence himself that has yet to be triggered, and a few other events that only trigger after you take the poster ( guy coming up to you in the bar, and a guy in the woods mentioning her).
My guess is if it's still in the game you have to trigger all the events to it.
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u/Iohet Sep 14 '20
One thing I'll say is that RDR is more of an alternate history than an absurdists alternate reality like GTA. It's much more grounded. Doesn't mean there's not weird shit, but it could mean the content was pulled back because it was too much and upset that balance
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u/coolmanranger25 Sep 14 '20
Where’d you find that model of her?
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u/humanmeattastesweird Sep 14 '20
Game files. Cut from the game
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Sep 14 '20 edited May 18 '23
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u/BlackDante Sep 14 '20
You can spawn player models with trainers in the pc version. Any model you want.
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Sep 14 '20 edited May 18 '23
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Sep 14 '20
No, you can only see the model, it's like a minecraft mod which lets you play as any mob, you can see the character but don't know what they do or where they come from
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Sep 14 '20
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u/officialtwiggz Sep 14 '20
Sometimes yes. Some games will allow you to “play the scene” via code, but the code actually doesn’t exist.
That’s how we found out about cut missions and what they detail. You can find recorded dialogue related to that mission, scripts, animations, but not the actual mission itself (because it was never finished)
IIRC, Vice City had a few missions in which modders were able to “finish” them and mod them into the final game.
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u/TPJchief87 Sep 14 '20
Damn I thought that too. So given that information this model could be anything right? It could be the originally planned model for the time travelers mom. Or even the time traveler before they decided to make him a man.
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u/BlackDante Sep 14 '20 edited Sep 14 '20
Oh sometimes the models have names and they might say something like who they are that might tip you off like "butcher_creek_killer_01" or something like that. Maybe OP saw something like that?
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Sep 14 '20
The game file for the model is called CS_PrincessIsabeau
So I don’t really think there’s an argument for it not being her.
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u/BlackDante Sep 14 '20
Ohh you're asking how OP knows she's a time traveler and all that! Sorry I forgot what post we were talking about and misunderstood what you were saying. My bad.
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Sep 14 '20
Ok. Yeah I’m just wondering if there was any other code that would suggest any kind of mission structure for that model or how it is spawned into the game. Other than the Annesburg sherif stuff I don’t think there is anything.
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u/BlackDante Sep 14 '20
Yeah it looks like this is essentially just a fan theory but it is interesting
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u/eyekayzee Sep 14 '20
No, there is no way to tell if she is cut just from her model. Anyone who’s saying she is confirmed cut because we can’t find her in game, doesn’t know what they’re talking about. There is absolutely ZERO evidence found in the game files to suggest she was cut.
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Sep 14 '20
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u/eyekayzee Sep 14 '20
Yeah the Annesburg sheriff thing is a bit of a doosey, and even given my experience with mods and game dev I personally don’t know what to make of it. I have looked through the metadata and can verify those lines of code do exist, and at some point in the game theoretically text is prompted to appear saying “Take the Princess to the Annesburg Sheriff,” and even “drop the Princess in the cell,” or something along those lines.
Still, I don’t think this at all “confirms” any notion that the Princess has been cut, though it does seem to lend some weight to that theory at this time. There may be no dialogue sourced from the sheriff talking about IKZ, however I agree with you that it could be inside of some sorta cutscene involving the two characters.
On top of that, further evidence to support the fact this encounter is still in the game is that these prompts have not only remained unpatched within the game to this day, but are also translated into every language RDR2 is available in. This seems either intentional or just blatantly oblivious at this point, and it’s more likely to me that a company as highly regarded as Rockstar isn’t this sloppy.
It seems to me Rockstar at least WANTS us to believe she’s there. Truthfully I can’t say for sure weather IKZ really is in the game or not, but I think at this point if she really was cut, we’d have some better evidence to prove it than “Welp, haven’t found her yet.” Just gotta have an open mind and keep on lookin.
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Sep 14 '20
That’s interesting that it exists in all variations of the game ports. I’d have to agree with you given that fact. It’s interesting for sure.
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u/Dath123 Sep 14 '20
I don’t personally see how something of that nature could still be in the game as a side mission and not yet found.
My guess is you have to do things in a certain order.
Like there are a few people you can talk to after getting the poster who will mention her ( I think the one by the lake is after certain steps)
The Saint Dennis fence also has dialogue in the files mentioning seeing her, but we're not sure of the trigger ( if there is one).
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u/xxA2C2xx Sep 14 '20
You can do so much more on PC. The game files can be accessed. Like in fallout. You can essentially give yourself unlimited caps, ammo, crazy overpowered weapons and armor. PC opens up a lot that playing on console doesn’t allow (I play both just because I like to not be able to mod the games to be completely broken, but... I also like to see how far I can push it on PC before the game breaks.)
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u/LollyHutzenklutz Sep 14 '20
So... as a redhead myself, does that mean I have no relatives? Or that I’m only related to the other redheads in my family? Hmmm.
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u/dudu_oson_ Sep 14 '20 edited Sep 14 '20
Some other stuff that seems connected:
Chelonians seem to be connected because they use the same light blue and white garb as Episilon/Sinclair.
The cult members in Hani's Bethel, where the UFO appears seem to be Chelonians because in the note that is found in there, it says conspicuously that they will "cast off their shells" ...shells being in reference to Turtles.
Sinclair seems to be a parody of L ron Hubbard (Sinclair looks just like a young L ron hubbard) and Episilon a parody of Scienology.
I had iniitally thought IKZ was kidnapped by Sinclair and whisked off to the future, but we now know that IKZ was supposed to be in game from the unused dialog of the shop keeper who says something like "the girl with the markings on her face acts strange." So IKZ is still "there" just not in the game (most likely)
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u/Leo_Ganzanetti Sep 14 '20
So basically there is no ending to the IKZ mystery because R* removed the ending/never made it?
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u/SubliminalGruv311 Mar 25 '24
You really think they'd do that? If so that's laughable. It would be sloppy shop work to include things in a game with no payoff.
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u/Leo_Ganzanetti Mar 25 '24
It's been 6 years since release and 3 years since I posted that reply. There is no solution. If there were, some kid would have found it by now. Feel free to prove me wrong, though.
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u/CommanderOfGregory Sep 14 '20
Strange man did a video on this
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u/InternetCulture81 Sep 14 '20
link?
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u/CommanderOfGregory Sep 14 '20
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u/rdldr1 Sep 14 '20
My favorite RDR youtube channel. I'm amazed how he can put two-and-two together, while I miss much of the connections in the game.
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u/eyekayzee Sep 14 '20
I’m also a big fan, however I do feel he can sometimes jump to his own conclusions without proper evidence at times. I think he and other channels like him can be blamed for those claiming everything that hasn’t been found yet is cut content.
Especially the Star Map on Mt. Shann, his explanation of that was WACK. The lines did not reach the points he was trying to connect them too, and his compass rose north was way off.
I think sometimes people accept this kind of information if it’s presented to them as truth, especially if they are just done trying to figure it out themselves.
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u/rdldr1 Sep 14 '20
The lines did not reach the points he was trying to connect them too
Oh shit, I assumed that the points did connect to the towns. Thanks.
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u/eyekayzee Sep 14 '20
I mean they connected, but only after he extended them himself, and not even all of them at that.
To me, the Mt. Shann map painting shows the lines all ending at a very clearly defined point. Idk if we really know where these points are yet, but to make 4 or 5 of those lines longer so they happen to match up over towns just seems a bit lazy to me.
This same map we find on Mt. Shann also perfectly lines up with an image we can find on the wall of the Mt. Chiliad bunker in GTA: Online. No clue what it means, but it’s too perfect of a fit no not mean anything.
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u/flustercuck91 Sep 14 '20
I like this theory. Perhaps Francis travelled back to the moment of the meteor strike in Roanoke to cover up his sudden materialization?
My rationalization for him needing a “cover moment” for landing in Roanoke vs hanging out north of strawberry is that Roanoke is further East and more densely populated. I think it’d be a lot easier for Francis to time boop over to Mt Shann and be no more detected than a UFO
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u/crahamgrackered Sep 14 '20
Semi related: I think Sinclair might appear in the next GTA, or in a new IP by R* (if one ever comes out). Time traveling open world adventures, anyone?
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u/sugaryyy1214 Sep 14 '20
i actually can’t believe i didn’t think of this when it was right in front of us. i don’t remember anyone else saying that IKZ is related to the Epsilon Program and i’m honestly surprised. maybe IKZ time travelled to the time Sinclair was from and they swapped places? and Epsilon Program probably has a say in this situation? i have no idea but it could be a possible way to explain all these shenanigans
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u/Esosorum Sep 14 '20
So this is really cool, but where did you get time traveling from?
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u/zadidoll Sep 14 '20
When you meet Francis (“Geology for Beginners”) the manner in which he speaks is from the 1920s-1930s era. It fits his age as he was born in 1898 & your character meets baby Francis in 1899.
Francis uses terms like “hooch” & “jazzed” which were all part of the Jazz Era which start in 1918/1919 but wasn’t really prevalent until the mid 1920s to early 1930s before the Great Depression. If Francis was in his late 20s or up to his late 30s that would fit his manner of speech which goes with the time traveler theory.
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u/SlipperySteve11 Sep 16 '20
I think strangeman deserves a little credit for this post he did a video using these exact pics already bro and this exact theory. Feel like that’s slipping under radar. If we ignore fact that you are claiming what he did already; then this is actually most realistic theory we have, the question is can we find her or did rockstar leave this in as a epsilon Easter egg nod?
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u/Eve-76 Sep 14 '20
The strange man did a video on this a few weeks ago it’s definitely worth a watch on YouTube
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u/Mayuthekitsune Sep 14 '20
I doubt she's a time traveler, but yeah the kaff birth mark suggest something, even if it's just a nod to the GTA universe
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u/InternetCulture81 Sep 14 '20
She is most definitely a time traveler.Recently, there was some interesting dialogue discovered in the game files that was by the fence in van horn.He said “That girl with a birth mark on her face is acting strange, something about her, the way she speaks.” You know who else spoke strange? Francis Sinclair... which who also had a birthmark on his face.
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u/Wulfgar830 Sep 14 '20
I heard a weird sound coming from my moms room what do you guys think that might mean?
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u/thunderbuff Sep 14 '20
Holy shit - that means your mom’s IKZ?!
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u/Wulfgar830 Sep 14 '20
She does have a big chest with toys in it, and a mask but it's not green. I think we solved it boys.
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u/No-BrowEntertainment Sep 14 '20
If they have the same birthmark, what if she’s related to Sinclair?
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u/OlDirtyPlaya Sep 15 '20
Do someone knows if there is a place that regroup every knowledge and works done in the research of IKZ in GTA 5?
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u/AcolyteProd Sep 17 '20
All this needs to end in GTA6. This could be great for us all.And to be a nice end for Rockstar Games too. lol.
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Sep 30 '20
I haven't seen anybody suggest that Princess IKZ is possibly not even meant to be found in this game, but an upcoming Rockstar game. Just kinda blows my mind that even with this theory (which I personally like a lot) no one stopped and thought "Hey, if IKZ was kidnapped by epsilon maybe we should be waiting and looking in a later game." I mean there's already several connectioms to GTA V in RDR2. Madam Nazzar and the UFO's being a few. I personally think that we'll find her or more clues to her whereabouts in a future title.
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u/KawaiiStefan Oct 18 '20
Well, her model is in RDR2 files and theres some code hinting at the player meeting her in a mission (Like the line: "Take the princess to the Annesburg sheriff" etc.
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u/loloooo_ Sep 14 '20
Dude these other points on the third pic are hilarious. so subtly poking fun at those over the top cults by just saying "FACT!" at the end lmao