r/reddeadmysteries • u/ironwolf425 Xbox One • Dec 25 '19
Theory Mac Callander ratted about the Blackwater heist in exchange for his freedom
According to Milton, he was shot pretty badly at the heist and they mercifully killed him, but I believe that he made a deal with the Pinkertons where he would spill about the heist in exchange for his freedom, and the Pinkertons would just say he was dead to keep the gang from looking for him. This would still make Milton’s statement about them picking up Micah after Guarma still be true, as some speculate that he was a rat before Guarma.
Not to mention this would benefit Rockstar because they’d have a plot for another game or a story dlc
Edit: To simplify, he told the Pinkertons about the robbery, so his plan was to slip away in the middle of the chaos. Which is why nobody saw him except Milton, and Milton would just say they killed him
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u/ItsDobbie Dec 25 '19
What exactly would he have ratted on them about?
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u/ironwolf425 Xbox One Dec 25 '19
He would’ve ratted about the heist
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u/ItsDobbie Dec 25 '19
Saying what exactly? What is it the Pinkertons would’ve needed to know?
It’s not like they let him live and he informed them of every location the gang stayed at because he wasn’t even with the gang after the heist.
They most likely knew it was the Van der Linde gang to begin with and probably did just kill him because he was wounded.
I’m not sure why he would’ve been of any use to them.
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u/ironwolf425 Xbox One Dec 25 '19
I’m thinking like he wanted to leave his life of crime, so when the heist came up he saw it as an opportunity to do so. So he somehow made a deal with the pinkertons where he told them about it and all the details, in exchange he’d be able to walk free, and the Pinkertons just said he was dead to keep them from searching for him.
The pinkertons probably found out about the locations of the hideouts because the gang brought too much attention to them. They are detectives so maybe they managed to visit in the towns near the hideouts and just did some sniffing and managed to get a general location of where they might be, besides, those hideouts would’ve been found eventually, they weren’t that well hidden
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u/BlackKnight6660 Dec 25 '19
No clue why you’re getting downvoted. As far as we know Mac could have had a very similar “survival of the fittest” style personality as Micah does/did so as far as we know Mac could just as easily have been a rat.
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u/PaddyLyons Dec 25 '19
I agree. The only thing is arthur was very clearly upset when he heard of Macs death whereas arthur suggested they leave micah in the jail when they had the chance so I imagine arthur clearly liked mac a lot more than micah. So he mac probably wasn't as bad as micah at least.
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u/R3fug33 Dec 25 '19
That's a good point, but by the end everyone wanted to leaved the gang except Micah and Dutch. Likeable and unlikable alike.
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u/Maxvayne Dec 25 '19
He means to prevent the heist in the first place, that would have been good use to them.
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u/Guco10 Dec 25 '19
We don't know his character, but he has been robbing around with his brother even before joining Dutch, so I don't think he would've left Davey to die alongside Van Der Linde gang. This theory just doesn't make much sense plus he got shot during the heist and obviously if he was working with them he wouldn't be killed (example - Micah Bell). I do believe that Micah could have been the rat since the beginning.
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u/ironwolf425 Xbox One Dec 25 '19
Most likely Milton is the only known witness to know what happened to Mac, the rest of the gang had no idea what happened to him, I don’t think Milton would be very truthful to Arthur about Mac. And you’re right, we don’t know his character, maybe he’s a sick bastard who doesn’t care what happens to his brother
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u/Guco10 Dec 25 '19
Milton was doing his job, he wasn't a bastard that wanted to murder everyone from Van Der Linde gang (unlike Ross). Down at Dakota River he could've easily arrested Morgan, but his job was to get Dutch and he left Arthur there. So I do believe Milton was telling the truth.
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u/hfscfc Dec 25 '19
They killed John after he helped them catch the rest if the gang and didn’t keep their side of the deal. I don’t see any reason why they would with Mac. Still John is the protagonist in RDR so an intense ending is needed.
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u/KataLight Dec 26 '19
I think that's only because of ross. While milton was a live he could have just gotten arthur at the river but he didn't. His job was to get Dutch, he didn't want to kill every member, that's more of ross's deal.
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u/hfscfc Dec 26 '19
Each one had his orders I believe. If it was for Milton he would’ve ended the gang right from chapter 3 when he came to the camp. Milton was told to bring in Dutch only because he was sort of the head of the snake. Seeing how bad that went, whoever in charge didn’t want to make the same mistake twice. May I mention that I haven’t played RDR so my information on it is extremely limited.
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u/Boggie135 Dec 25 '19
".. or a story dlc" Oh, sweet summer child.
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u/ironwolf425 Xbox One Dec 25 '19
Idk he could be a part of undead nightmare 2 if that’s a thing cause he’s “back from the dead” or something like that lmao
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u/Hellfalcon Dec 26 '19
Hmm, it's a solid theory, explains how the Blackwater heist went to shit so badly
But piecing together the ferry heist, it was going fine until Dutch shot the girl, after Cunty McMicah egged him on, then all hell broke loose, bringing down the law. Didn't quite need to be a set up to go to shit. Micah clearly joins gangs, makes bank then gets the gang fucked over, it just took longer with our gang
But see, obviously the San Denis heist didn't need to be a setup, they had their camp about 10 minutes out of town, and the Pinkertons knew where they were
Then they raised hell with the botched trolley robbery, and being notorious bank robbers, it wouldn't exactly take an ace Pinkerton investigator to piece together they might be planning on robbing the bank, especially with the diversion.
So most of the bad luck is just because Dutch was being an assclown, ignoring Hosea, robbing an oil barons train, causing havoc down south, they didn't really need a rat at all, but it didn't help
I'd imagine most of the intel Micah gave them didn't screw them over as much as they were doing themselves, the worst danger was bringing out the worst in Dutch, especially without Hosea grounding him to reality
Finding out Mac added to the botched robbery being a setup would be pretty interesting though for sure, I mean I'd love to find out more about pre-RDR2 dutches gang, when they were on top of everything haha
We only really get one line about the callender brothers , that they were tough, that's about it
It was definitely interesting reading Arthur's pre-colter entries about the solid scam he and Hosea had, and how it was Micah's plan to take the ferry, showing how what we see throughout the game was already starting in blackwater
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u/guven09_Mr Dec 25 '19
What made you think like that? Even if he ratted the heist, he wouldn't got himself in the shootout, he surely would elude.
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u/ironwolf425 Xbox One Dec 25 '19
Maybe the pinkertons would’ve planned to keep Mac away from harm’s way as much as possible, that explains why he got separated from the rest of the gang
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u/guven09_Mr Dec 25 '19
You are being too hard on Mac dude. I don't see any reason for Mac being rat. Blackwater is a mystery. Could be Micah who ratted or there were never a rat, just things went south unexpectedly.
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u/marinebattleships Dec 31 '19
I don’t believe that because I don’t think Mac would ever let anything happen to Davey. I also don’t think davey was in on it because otherwise why would he leave Blackwater
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Jan 03 '20
I don’t think anyone ratted the Blackwater job. We see how slapdash Micah is about robberies and planning and what a sociopath he is throughout. He persuaded Dutch to do the job, despite Arthur and Hosea being against it. We know his work goes to shit and mass murder quickly. Which is exactly what the job sounds like. I think it suited Dutch to think they were ratted out because otherwise he was at fault in several ways.
I don’t think Micah was a rat at that point, I don’t think he needed to be. I think he also made several attempts to get Arthur killed to take his place in the gang. Including selling out to the O’Driscoll’s early on and later when Arthur gets kidnapped. I wouldn’t be surprised if Micah sold out to the Braithwaites and gets Jack kidnapped and Sean killed. When that doesn’t work he might have been the one who sold them out to Bronte, which is what gets the police on them in Saint Denis.
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u/StickAPickleInMyAss Feb 13 '20
I don't know, people talked a lot about how close mac and davey were. To rat out on the whole gang is one thing but ratting on your brother is another.
I'm also still wondering who ratted on the Saint Denis heist
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u/1911gs Jun 07 '22
$150,000 in 1899 is worth about $5.225 million today. Could be with that much money on the line the Blackwater bank hired the Pinkerton's to guard it and go where it went.
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u/MrBonso Dec 25 '19
Forgive me if im wrong, but wasnt he injured/captured during the robbery?
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u/ironwolf425 Xbox One Dec 25 '19
According to Milton yes, but he’s most likely the only known witness
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Dec 25 '19
I'm pretty sure it was Micah personally. Dutch only gets the idea to rob the ferry after meeting Micah, who i think even tells him about the job. Micah is also really good at encouraging Dutch's bad side out (i.e. killing that pregnant woman brutally on the ferry). I think the plan might've been to not only try to catch/kill as much of the gang as possible there, but plant doubt in the remaining members by showing Dutch wasn't the perfect idealist they all thought he was, the guy who wouldn't kill innocents. The latter ends up working to some extent (I think hearing about it is what starts making Arthur doubt Dutch pretty early on)
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u/I-redd-it-already Dec 26 '19
Do you/Does anyone know if there are any clues in RDR (one) to that? I personally played RDRII twice but never got to play the original. It wouldn’t be the first time Rockstar would do something like that. I am talking about things like either of them appearing or being mentioned. Maybe by Ross or just gossip.
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u/ironwolf425 Xbox One Dec 26 '19
Since rdr1 came after rdr2 a lot of the characters weren’t mention in the original because they didn’t exist yet, the only people from rdr2 that made it into rdr1 were Javier, Bill, John, Abigail, Jack, Uncle, Dutch, and Ross
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u/elvnsword Jan 01 '20
Mac's story is similar to Michael in GTA 5 if this is the case.
He may even have been trying to target Dutch having seen some random acts that were early signs he was slipping mentally, in the same way that Michael was targeting Trevor in the North Yankton job. Just like that job someone Michael didn't intend to get hurt, Brad, got killed, and the target got away. (Trevor / Dutch) . It's a good theory.
That being said, I think the Pinkertons are lying through their teeth and Micah is definitely the rat. He is trying to play both sides and get close enough to Dutch to get the Blackwater job money, and get to walk away from the Pinkerton situation.
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u/DeeDhaBuoyDee Dec 25 '19
Mary Linton was the rat. Rhymes with Milton too. She’s the only one who knew Tacitus Kilgore
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u/The_quest_for_wisdom Dec 25 '19
I think Abigail being the Rat at Blackwater in an attempt to break up the gang so John can be a father to Jack is still more likely.
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Dec 25 '19
I don't think that makes sense. Theres no guarantee John would've gone with Abigail and Jack if the gang split then. He only starts stepping up and acting like a father when Jack gets kidnapped. She'd have been taking a huge risk and potentially getting John killed in the process if she ratted them out then.
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u/ironwolf425 Xbox One Dec 25 '19
Doesn’t make sense, why would she risk John getting killed if she wants him to be a father?
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u/NotTheRocketman Dec 25 '19
The big problem with that is, Mac didn't have access to the Blackwater money. Any deal offered (in theory) would have been contingent on getting the money back. And John was able to get it at the end, so nobody squealed about Blackwater.