r/rallycross • u/Ordinary-Ad5146 • 17d ago
Question Beginner Rallycross Car? (+Daily Driver)
I have a multiple sided question regarding beginner rallycross cars. To start, I currently daily drive a 1990 Mazda Miata, which is currently setup for street/track driving. I've been considering getting a new daily on the account that the Miata probably isn't the safest daily (front airbag needs to be replaced and everything driving around me is a lifted F150 or large SUV). Most of the time people just don't see me on the road.
I'm also taking this opportunity to get an entry level rallycross car. I've wanted to get into rallycross for a while now, but didn't have a reason to get a whole new car. I know I can rallycross the Miata, but it's purpose built now for the HPDE track days, which I do a couple times a year. All in all, my goal is to find an entry level rallycross car that has modern safety features (front, rear, and side airbags, etc.).
So far, my choices are as follows:
- 2008-13 Subaru Impreza Hatchback
- I like the extra room in the back on the Hatchback for day to day use
- 2008-13 Subaru Impreza WRX Hatchback
- 2013-2020 Subaru BR-Z / Scion FR-S
I'm currently leaning towards the 2008-13 base Impreza as I've heard a non-WRX model is a good place to start in the sport. I also feel like the 265hp of the WRX is a bit overwhelming for me considering I'm use to about 100hp haha. I haven't seen many people use this 3rd generation Impreza in the first place, so I'm not sure if it's the best choice. If daily driving safety wasn't a concern I'd get a 2007 Impreza (Hawkeye), but it's kind of the whole reason behind the purchase (07 lacks in safety features). The rallycross aspect is a fun bonus.
Anyway, I'd appreciate any input on this topic! I know it's probably not a typical topic for rallycross, but I wasn't finding much online to help make my decision.
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u/TheBeesSteeze 17d ago edited 17d ago
I went through this journey myself. Ended up going big and got a 2016 STI. Super fun, but man does Subaru make questionable engines. People were constantly blowing motors, myself included.
I would definitely get AWD or RWD. It's just going to be more fun.
I wouldn't worry about a stock WRX having too much power. On dirt you aren't really getting the power down like you are on pavement.
I'd probably just buy an older cheap AWD Subaru that's completely expendable in case you kill the motor.
Generally speaking rallycross is about as hard as you can get on a car, so having it as a daily driver may not be the best idea. I've seen airblags blown, radiators crushed, and cars occasionally rolled.
Also stick with the stock suspension and winter tires, get a spacer lift if you need more clearance. Going with rally tires and a rally-x suspension made my car undriveable on the street, especially having to trailer it or change tires at the event.
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u/Ordinary-Ad5146 17d ago
Thanks for the input! You're probably right about not using as much power during rallycross. If I get a WRX it's at least a car that will grow with my skills over time. However, that's saying the engine stays in one piece too.
Regarding suspension, you mentioned a spacer lift, but would using lift springs be an option too? Regardless, whatever car I get I was considering raising it 1-1.5 inches, adding a skid plate, and getting a good set of tires for rallycross. I just want to do the bare minimum to the car to help protect it during the event, all other upgrades can probably wait.
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u/TheBeesSteeze 17d ago
Stock suspension works very well for rallycross and keeps it driveable on the street.
Lift springs are fine but a waste of money. I actually bought some expensive but still "lower" end gravel rally coilovers for my STI. I could never get them dialed in exactly right and hated how it drove on the street.
I ended up selling them and swapping back in the stock springs with some used WRX struts I found on marketplace and 2" spacers. That was a sweet spot for me.
I run spacers on my 4Runner and do a decent amount off road driving with it as well. I truly don't get the hate, you get the performance of an OE suspension, several inches of ground clearance, and a very cheap price.
Skid plate is a must even before your first event.
You don't need good tires, find a cheap set of wheels and some cheap used winter tires on marketplace.
I cannot stress enough how much your car will get beat up doing this.
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u/Ordinary-Ad5146 17d ago
Sweet, good to know the barrier to entry seems lower than I originally thought! I'll keep the winter tires in mind. For cheap wheels, you're referring to cheaper used alloy wheels right? I've heard to avoid steel wheels.
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u/TheBeesSteeze 17d ago
Whatever you can find on facebook marketplace. I found some used Sparco Terras that worked well. Look up the rules for your local club ahead of time before making any modificaitons.
Rallycross is much more technique heavy than little things like wheel weight etc. A dirtfish instructor use to run laps around highly modified subarus in a stock jeep cherokee.
Have fun!
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u/TheBeesSteeze 17d ago
Also make sure to get a car with a manual trans and a working e-brake lever :)
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u/Ordinary-Ad5146 17d ago
Ah yes, a manual is a must! I'm surprised how many going for sale are automatic. I can't see how anyone would want to drive a WRX or BRZ with automatic, but that's just me.
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u/Beatreporting 17d ago
Take a look at the groups you would be racing with. If you want to be competitive it pays to know which classes have more contenders than others. I raced a 1990 Miata in rallycross and found that my times were pretty competitive overall but I was consistently at the top of the Heap in my class. Having owned a WRX for a long time and done rally cross with that as well I can also say that rear wheel drive is a ton of fun in the dirt and slush.
Generally, if I were you I would go with the BRZ. It will be plenty fast and be competitive in Raleigh cross. The other thing you could consider if you want to stick with Miatas is an NC Miata with the hardtop. I also raced an NC Miata in rallycross and it was a ton of fun with a good wide stance but still a short wheelbase.
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u/jeremiahishere 17d ago
If you already have a Miata, don't get a BRZ. Get something different. Or buy a second Miata so you can share parts and wheels.
A wrx is a good starting point and a good daily. I wouldn't get a non turbo Subaru unless you were trying to save money. The Lancer Ralliart is also a hatchback and has an optional dct if you want to be different.
A 2009ish Honda Civic is maybe the best all around car for rallycross and daily driving.
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u/Ordinary-Ad5146 17d ago
Thanks for the recommendations! I'll check out the 2009ish Civic! I'm definitely trying to safe some money and minimize potential repair costs.
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u/wonder_brett 17d ago
The most important part in considering an RX car is availbility of inexpensive parts... you'll definitely be breaking stuff on the car so you'll want to ensure your vehicle of choice is well represented in local scrap yards.
Also, FWD (Jetta / Golf / Focus / Fiesta) and RWD (BRZ, BMW) cars have simpler drive-trains and are therefore there are fewer parts to break. FWD and RWD will also be easier to master than AWD making them a good starting point for beginners.
Ultimately, any car that gets you on course is a good car! Have fun out there! :)
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u/Ordinary-Ad5146 16d ago
I completely agree with you here. I've recently started leaning towards the base version of the Impreza to keep costs down.
Even more recently I started considering the VW Golf as an option. The 05 and up seem to have the safety feature I want for daily driving, but I don't know which year or trim is most sought after for rallycross. Also, I always thought VW was a bit more expensive to maintain because of being German cars, but this may be my lack of knowledge of the cars.
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u/wonder_brett 15d ago
MK4 and MK5 Jetta / Golf are very popular at my local club (CoRX) because they are durable, relatively easy to work on, and they have great parts availability at scrap yards and aftermarket new.
Being European, they are probably more expensive than a Honda or Ford would be if you took them to the shop but almost nobody who participates in RallyCross is having a shop work on their RX car. If you do the work on them yourself, they aren't any more expensive than any other car.
I race a 2001 1.8t Jetta and love it! It's been reliable and is straight-forward to work on. If it were to break down today, my short list of replacements would be a 2005+ Golf / Rabbit or a BRZ / FRS.
I hope you'll update us when you pull the trigger!
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u/Ordinary-Ad5146 15d ago
Thanks for the feedback on the Golf! Yeah, I plan to do most of the maintenance myself, to an extent. Engine rebuilds are a bit outside my comfort zone, but timing belts, radiators, suspension, oil changes are all things I have done myself.
I'll definitely keep you guys posted on what I get. I am definitely considering the 05+ Golf right now, but so far my top choice is an 06-07 NA Subaru Impreza. I was able to find 1 within a 200 mile radius of me that seems to be bone stock. I just got in contact with the owner. I think the Golf might be my plan B because it seems reliable, safe, and easy to work with.
Unfortunately, the BRZ/FRS is off my list because I need to be able to put a child's car seat in the back. Spoke with my wife and we agreed this car would be a backup for our main family car (21 Subaru Outback).
I was originally leaning towards the 08+ Impreza Hatchbacks, but they aren't my favorite styling and I've heard they are the least popular of all the Imprezas. I'd probably be settling for something if I got the 08+. However, my opinion is changing constantly, but I'm narrowing in on what I want.
Do you recommend the base Golf or the Golf R. I believe the R is AWD if I'm correct. However that would probably put me in a RX class with the Subarus. Also, I'm assuming you are recommending the Golf over the GTI because of maintenance simplicity, correct?
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u/deftmoto 17d ago
RallyX your Miata with all the local groups you can find. Ask the same question to the local racers. Once you’ve checked out the local groups and tracks It will be much easier for you to make this decision.
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u/Entire_Bluebird_7802 17d ago
I started RallyX in an 03 wrx and definitely took ~a season to grow into the car and handle the power without overdriving. Power to weight won't be great on the impreza if you are going to keep it dailyable but it shouldn't stop you from being able to have fun and be mildly competitive in a stock class. If I were to do it again I would do the wrx>base for sure, just make sure it's been very well maintained if you do.
A friend of mine has a new 86(BRZ/FRS clone) that he rallycrosses and he/it are super competitive in stock form, also super fun. If you like your miata and RWD I would 100% recommend an 86/BRZ/FRS as a rallyX+daily option. Be aware that if your courses are bumpy you will likely lose/scuff bumpers so I would recommend getting one that already isn't the prettiest.
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u/Ordinary-Ad5146 17d ago
I can definitely see getting the WRX would be a solid foundation to grow on. For now, I'm primarily looking to just get into the sport and have fun, while also keeping repair costs down.
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u/Entire_Bluebird_7802 17d ago
That was also my mindset going in. I just got the WRX because it was nearby and dirt cheap. I was definitely frustrated at first because I was bad but idk if having less power would've helped or not. So far it has been nothing but reliable. I don't daily it though so definitely a different situation. The turbo and awd combo makes it a lot of fun and my NA and RWD friends that have hopped in it love it.
That said, for a daily combo the BRZ seems like the move considering they have come down in price so much and are pretty reliable. Unless you really want to switch to AWD platform from RWD. If you are racing NWRA you wont be at a competitive disadvantage because they split FWD and RWD, and unlike HDPE and AutoX, FWD typically has a big advantage on RWD.
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u/Ordinary-Ad5146 17d ago
Cool, thanks for the feedback! I'm glad to hear the WRX is working out for you!
Honestly, the WRXs in my area (ones not modified to hell and back) have about a $1-2k difference from that of base Impreza's. I was mainly considering them just because the price wasn't that bad. However, my main concern for the WRX is the reliability over daily use and the price to repair.
I'm definitely not opposed to the BRZ/FRS! They look great and seem to be fun cars to drive. I'll give them another look! I think the only reason I put them behind the Impreza is because of the lack of storage from a daily driver practicality.
For context, I'm located near SF/San Jose California. Most of the RX is located near Sacramento, under California Rallycross Association.
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u/Entire_Bluebird_7802 17d ago
Not sure what your classes would be like. I got into it with the only goal being have fun but by like my 3rd race I wanted to be competitive to some extent. Im sure with your experience in other racing you will know if this will be the same for you or if you wont care too much about placing.
If you do go turbo just make sure that if it's been modified at all its got a proper tune on it or that it has never been modified, otherwise you will blow that thing up.
Storage is tight but surprisingly not that terrible for racing, my buddy was bringing a full set of spares to swap on and race on back and forth to every race. Regarding daily drive use though definitely big difference there haha
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u/Ordinary-Ad5146 17d ago
Yeah I'm trying to avoid modified WRX's, but it's pretty hard to find one. Regardless, what I get I'll probably get a tune and/or have a mechanic check it out.
Wow, that's awesome he was able to fit the race spares in there! I just looked it up and it seems you can put the rear seats down to open up the area to the trunk giving you tons of space. This might meet my needs for a daily driver.
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u/PunksPrettyMuchDead 17d ago
Can you afford to replace four tires all at once, or maintain a set specifically for Rallying? That's the first question for considering an Impreza or WRX.
You'll have an easier time breaking from SCCA into ARA series if you start with a 2wd car, like a Fiesta or Civic. The additional safety requirements for an AWD turbocharged car make it more expensive for a beginner, and make it less fun as a daily. If I was doing more rally I'd get a naturally aspirated Fiesta, personally - this is coming from somebody who's done RallyX in every WRX he's ever owned.
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u/Ordinary-Ad5146 17d ago
Now I think about it I'd probably have one set of tires for both daily use and rallycross. However, I don't know how much racing I'll actually be doing over the year. I currently just want to get out there and have a solid car to grow my skills over time.
I agree, a 2WD car would be much more inexpensive. My Miata is dead simple to repair and maintain, which would be nice to carry over to this car too. This is another reason I was looking at just going with the base Impreza because it lacks the turbocharger and any related components. I know you can't get away from the engine related issues with Subarus, but I feel like it's just one less thing to break. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
I'll check out a Fiesta or Civic. I'll have to check the safety features on these for daily use, but I know these are popular, well respected cars.
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u/Wambo74 17d ago
One set of tires relegates you to cannon fodder. In stock, everyone runs aggressive snow tires and in the other two categories they run rally tires. Fiesta and Civic are good choices, but go with an ST Fiesta or SI on the Civic. 9th Gen SI are particularly good because they have big displacement and no turbo lag. Another top California contender is the Spec V Sentra. Again big displacement, no turbo. Take any of these three, mount snow tires, fix anything mechanical and you have a nationally competitive ride in Stock Front. Personally I run a Fiesta ST but I'd probably switch to one of the other two if I were starting over. Turbo lag sucks coming out of slow tight corners.
BTW if you should go with the Miata be aware the factory hardtop is required. Also a good car for it's class.
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u/SubaruTome 17d ago
The regular Impreza is perfectly adequate and will still have plenty of room for you to grow as a driver. Plus, you can usually fit 15" wheels over the stock brakes, which allows you to run more sidewall and slightly narrow tires.
Dirt is an equalizer, and rallycross shouldn't hit speeds where power actually makes a significant difference. I did perfectly fine with an 05 Impreza RS with a few suspension and brake upgrades. Lower power will also teach you to carry momentum instead of relying on being able to rocket out of a corner you missed.
Some WRX suspension parts also cross over to the Impreza, so you can get decent aftermarket support.
The BRZ will probably be fun, but less competitive. The Toyota MR2 is probably one of the best RWD class options.