r/privacy • u/exu1981 • 2d ago

discussion While Apple preaches Privacy, a new patent titled 'Temporal Reasoning' reveals that they support 'targeting advertising' in their Algorithms

https://www.patentlyapple.com/2024/12/while-apple-preaches-privacy-a-new-patent-titled-temporal-reasoning-reveals-that-they-support-targeting-advertising-in-t.html
407 Upvotes

94% Upvoted

57 comments sorted by

101

u/ZwhGCfJdVAy558gD 2d ago edited 2d ago

I briefly skimmed the actual patent application (linked on the blog) and it's not just about advertising. To me it sounds more like it would be used for a personal assistant that runs locally on a device, e.g. like Apple's Siri suggestions.

The key difference between Apple and the likes of Google so far is that they don't track you across 3rd party sites and apps. They do use 1st party data collected in their own apps to personalize recommendations and in some apps (e.g. the News app and the app store) ads. It is concerning that these ads are a growing part of their service business, but so far they haven't crossed the line.

5

u/DrMisery 2d ago

They’re not collecting this data to store it or sit on it. They wouldn’t be doing this if they couldn’t sell it and make more money.

4

u/BennificentKen 2d ago

That's likely so they have greater fidelity over data harvested. They can trust their own first party data, so that's the extent of what they want.

They can then build a predictive model based on that to be able to crack things like how far in advance they can start predicting and then advertising to people and their families regarding marriages and births. Keep in mind that targeted ads no longer mean individuals are targeted. A household of iPhone users will all start to get ads related to wedding dresses when their daughter's boyfriend two states away first starts to ask Siri how ring sizes work.

1

u/Jusby_Cause 1d ago

And, that’s assuming they actually use it. There’s a ton of things they patent and never use.

-2

u/cantstopsletting 2d ago

They do indeed track you and illegally collect your data.

Apple may share personal data with Apple-affiliated companies, service providers who act on our behalf, our partners, developers, and publishers, or others at your direction. Further, Apple does not share personal data with third parties for their own marketing purposes

-16

u/AlexMango44 2d ago edited 1d ago

How do you know they don't track you across apps, etc? And you get more privacy with android where you can use script blockers and containers.

edit: Read the article:

"Apple's moral high-ground is no more than a mirage.

Apple's patent relates to .... involves the generation of life events to construct a comprehensive mapping of routine events and extraordinary events in a user's life. This mapping encompasses past, present, and future aspects, incorporating dimensions of activity and social interactions.....collected contextual data over time ....to extract valuable insights of users. These insights are manifested as life events, which provide a comprehensive description of different dimensions, including temporal aspects, activity in space, and social interactions.

The resulting mapping offers a holistic representation of the user's life context, enabling personalized recommendations, predictive analysis, and targeted services based on the user's unique experiences and circumstances.

..."key events in a user's life, considering the spatial dimensions of activity as well as the social interactions associated with these events......the development of advanced algorithms, models, and systems that can provide valuable insights and recommendations to a user.

....enables the creation of personalized applications and services in various fields, including but not limited to, behavior analysis, health management, and targeted advertising."

If that isn't scary, nothing is = they aim to gather enough data to represent your whole life and predict what you'll do.

F Apple.

14

u/blenderbender44 2d ago

you also get google services listening to background conversations and data harvesting,

4

u/MasterRaceLordGaben 2d ago

You can run Android without google services. Unlike IOS, android is open source.

3

u/blenderbender44 2d ago

It's really hard. Last time I tried that, it took days of fucking around to get something that worked. Then half the apps either, refused to work, or worked with missing critical functionality, due to missing proprietary google services. The experience was so bad I had to go back to normal android eventually. I think the final straw was the taxi that I had to call, not showing up, when I couldn't use uber because the uber app needed google services.

6

u/MasterRaceLordGaben 1d ago

It is not easy for average person, and I think that is by design. These trillion dollar companies really make it convenient for you to let them harvest your data. "ecosystem", "seamless integration", "plug and play" they sound so nice and make it so easy to connect everything to each other.

/r/degoogle is a good resource if you want to go about this. Also I would suggest looking at the apps you need to use and if they run before going forward with this sort of stuff. Also hardware choice etc might change depending on the level of privacy/convenient ratio you want.

I have used Android without google, and it was fine. So your mileage may vary depending on your choices and needs. It is definitely not for everyone, and like I said I think that is by design.

1

u/blenderbender44 1d ago

100%. I was thinking, if I tried this again, going full linux phone with an android compatibility layer. But no idea how well this runs either.

1

u/whatnowwproductions 2d ago

You cannot without breaking core functionality on stock OS's. You'd need to use an AOSP based OS that significantly adds functionality back to use it properly. Fortunately these options exist, but not as "Android" devices, but OS's derived from AOSP with substitution location providers and other core functionality replaced.

1

u/AlexMango44 1d ago

Siri listens.

-2

u/cantstopsletting 1d ago

This has been tested and been proven to be false.

0

u/blenderbender44 1d ago

False, one of my android phone's literally had a (very easy to mjss) opt out option for "passive listening to background conversations for targeted advertising purposes"

-1

u/cantstopsletting 1d ago

And the passive listening all the time for info gathering has been tested and proven false

The only listening it would actually do is for "Hey Google". This is what "passive listening" is used for.

Jesus Christ the lack of understanding here for basic technology.

0

u/blenderbender44 1d ago edited 1d ago

I'm telling you this is false, My old android literally had an opt out of passive listening for targeted advertising purposes. I saw it with my own eyes. It ran unmodified googles version of android. you should be questioning the source of whoever tested this

1

u/cantstopsletting 1d ago

I saw with my own eyes where it specifically said "we don't have passive listening for advertising purposes"

That's obviously a joke but saying I saw it therefore the testing that was done is false is wild.

1

u/blenderbender44 1d ago edited 1d ago

I know it's not convincing evidence for someone else. But my own stock android literally said this. I saw it. I can't unsee it, you can't convince me it didn't happen, because it did.

also, if you really did see that, it doesn't mean a whole lot, as they can be different android versions. Same with whatever testing someone may have done. They can simply be different versions of android.

So I don't really care what everyone thinks, as wild as it sounds, I legitimately did read that on my old nokia android. I'n not going to suddenly start lying and pretending I didn't see that, just because there's no evidence and no one believes me, that would be weird

1

u/drknow42 18h ago

Anecdotal evidence + not caring what others think.

What a beautiful combination

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u/blenderbender44 2d ago

you also get google services listening to background conversations and data harvesting,

-16

u/Disastrous-Star-5917 2d ago edited 2d ago

Apple wants you to feel confident you are safe just to snitch on you behind your back. Have you checked how much data your phone is sending back to their servers every day? Gb!

Edit: lol the downvotes are because you are shooting the messenger? Or because you are in denial of their practices?

20

u/Fine-External406 1d ago edited 10h ago

Every breath you take
www.inverse_com/article/16929-apple-watch-will-now-remind-ou-to-breathe

Every move you make
www.stopspying_org/latest-news/2021/10/1/stop-condemns-apple-for-tracking-iphone-location-when-turned-off

Every bond you break
acecilia.medium_com/apple-is-sending-a-request-to-their-servers-for-every-piece-of-software-you-run-on-your-mac-b0bb509eee65

Every step you take
www.komando_com/security-privacy/secret-map-tracking-apple/465598

I'll be watching you
www.thehackernews_com/2017/10/iphone-camera-spying.html

Every single day
https://sneak_berlin/20201112/your-computer-isnt-yours

Every word you say
www.foxbusiness_com/technology/apples-siri-is-eavesdropping-on-your-conversations-putting-users-at-risk

Every game you play
https://techstory_in/apple-slammed-by-epic-games-chief-for-spyware-tools

Every night you stay
gizmodo_com/apple-iphone-ipad-privacy-problems-data-gathering-1849855092

I'll be watching you
www.malwarebytes_com/blog/news/2022/11/apple-sued-for-pervasive-and-unlawful-data-tracking

Oh, cant you see
truthout_org/articles/apple-employee-blows-whistle-on-illegal-spying-and-toxic-working-conditions

You belong to me
reuters_com/technology/apple-accused-silencing-workers-spying-personal-devices-2024-12-02

How my poor heart aches
foxnews_com/tech/iphone-owners-could-be-spied-on-through-microphone-on-apple-watch

With every step you take
nakedsecurity.sophos_com/2018/08/13/siri-is-listening-to-you-but-shes-not-spying-says-apple

Every move you make
https://sneak_berlin/20230115/macos-scans-your-local-files-now

Every vow you break
appleinsider_com/articles/16/09/29/apple-acknowledges-tracking-imessage-metadata-and-sharing-it-with-law-enforcement

Evry smile you fake
abc4_com/news/tech-social-media/yes-your-iphone-is-taking-invisible-pictures-of-you

Every claim you stake
wonderfulengineering_com/u-s-apple-store-employees-are-working-to-unionize-and-theyre-using-android-phones-to-keep-apple-from-spying-on-them

I'll be watching you
https://archive_is/2024.10.10-000653/https://www.forbes_com/sites/thomasbrewster/2024/10/09/apple-sells-privacy-to-consumers-but-its-quietly-helping-police-use-iphones-for-surveillance

26

u/Stilgar314 2d ago

I think their privacy ToS openly says they collect data for targeted advertising. Nothing new, unless you're one of those gullible persons that believe those fancy "apple privacy good" marketing.

6

u/Mukir 2d ago

can't wait for the bots and shills to try and tell us why that's actually a good thing for all of us

17

u/CondiMesmer 2d ago

If you think any closed source software ran by a for-profit company values your privacy, then you're just naive. Apple is masters of marketing.

5

u/Mukir 2d ago

something can be closed source and not inherently privacy invasive at the same time. not saying that's apple, just as a general reminder

apple is closed source

  1. because they want to be the only ones where you can get an iOS, etc from. apple loves to "distance" themselves from everything in the industry to try and be unique. now, they'll still adapt all the technologies but it'll just be renamed, because "apple = revolutionary tech" since that's what makes them "luxury" and not like all the "filthy android clones"
  2. so you can't disrupt/de-apple the walled garden in which they have full control over you and your data like you can on android

0

u/CondiMesmer 1d ago

something can be closed source and not inherently privacy invasive at the same time

No it can't. See the first rule of this sub. The Apple shilling here is getting ridiculous.

Also that's a very uneducated take on it. Apple can simply not have people fork their software with licenses. Closed source is not necessary for that.

0

u/Mukir 19h ago edited 19h ago

No it can't. See the first rule of this sub.

maybe you should spend less time on reddit if you think just because this community demonzies every kind of proprietary software that isn't from apple that all of it is 100% nothing but spyware

lmao

Apple can simply not have people fork their software with licenses. Closed source is not necessary for that.

that'd totally stop people from forking their software and then using it for public projects anyway, just as well as anti-piracy laws have immediately stopped 100% of piracy /s

3

u/Natasha_Giggs_Foetus 2d ago

By that logic even companies whose sole purpose is to protect your privacy don’t value your privacy which is utterly untrue and ridiculous lol

-7

u/CondiMesmer 2d ago

If that was their goal, they wouldn't be closed-source

6

u/whatnowwproductions 2d ago

Closed source doesn't mean it's un-auditable.

0

u/CondiMesmer 1d ago

See the first rule of this sub. This sub really needs some quality control.

1

u/whatnowwproductions 1d ago

Sub rules are hardly relevant to the fact of the matter.

0

u/CondiMesmer 1d ago

what fact? the claim they aren't un-auditable? literally nobody mentioned their auditability until you did.

1

u/whatnowwproductions 1d ago

Ok, then please explain why being closed source is relevant to privacy claims. The mainstream argument is that you can see what devs are doing and for transparency, yet that's hardly ever been the main source of investigation for actual product behavior.

0

u/CondiMesmer 1d ago

...yes it has?

0

u/whatnowwproductions 1d ago edited 1d ago

Nothing to say then?? I asked what your reasoning was. And blocking me too AFTER replying to me. Truly nothing to see here

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u/Natasha_Giggs_Foetus 2d ago

Firstly, that’s not how businesses work. Secondly, if you think making your security system open source is a good idea, you have less than zero idea what you’re talking about.

1

u/CondiMesmer 1d ago

We were talking about privacy but you suddenly swapped to security, which is not the same thing. 

Also security being open-source is even more important lol. What a wild take.

Literally even the CISA, FBI, and NSA recommend open-source as the best practice for security: https://www.cisa.gov/sites/default/files/2023-10/Fact_Sheet_Improving_OSS_in_OT_ICS_508c.pdf

Objectively incorrect shit like this that is the polar opposite of that this sub is about does make me think sometimes that there is botting. Get the fuck out of here.

1

u/Tar_AS 1d ago

Firstly, "business" is for-profit by design (otherwise it's not a business but a charity), which includes exploitation of your private data.

Secondly, the best security practice is to make the code transparent, auditable community-wide, mitigating reliance on trust to third-party audits "we tested it, trust me bro, but you won't be able to check it yourself" style.

Thirdly, as there is no argument in your comment, only accusations and false statements (proof is above), it seems "you have less than zero idea what you're talking about".

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u/HermanvonHinten 2d ago

Believing huge corporation is just plain stupid. I bet this is just the tip of the iceberg.

-4

u/rorowhat 2d ago

Apple's privacy is all smoke and mirrors.

6

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

5

u/quafs 2d ago

What specifically are you referring to from this list?

1

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

5

u/quafs 2d ago

Did you read the article you linked to? The gist of it is that Apple is helping police use its hardware to do their jobs. Just like Apple helps every other business do their job.

They aren’t giving police any information the police don’t already have…. They’re simply saying “hey buy our iPhones”. I don’t see what’s wrong with that.

0

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

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u/quafs 2d ago

I agree there, but that has nothing do to with Apple’s privacy practices. I was just curious if you knew something I didn’t.

-4

u/Admirable_Stand1408 2d ago

No you do not get it Apple wants to protect your data from other players so they can keep it for themselves

10

u/ZwhGCfJdVAy558gD 2d ago

Then why do they implement things like ADP (end-to-end encryption of your cloud data), which prevents them from accessing it?

6

u/Natasha_Giggs_Foetus 2d ago

Don’t bother, the reasonably skeptics are far outnumbered by conspiracy theorists on this sub who think everyone is desperate to know what time they took a shit last Thursday

-1

u/Legitimate_Square941 1d ago

Why do they need you cloud data when they can collect the info from your phone?

2

u/PeaceBull 2d ago

Ah yes all that data they’re using for…

0

u/medve_onmaga 2d ago

damn, what is with all the white knights in the comment section

-1

u/AntiGrieferGames 2d ago

And this is what i knew it. Apple is NOT privacy Friendly. They just harvesting datas and calling "protect your datas" itelf.

Apple Marketings are a lie.

0

u/Trick-Variety2496 1d ago

The subject technology encompasses the processing of collected contextual data over time and the application of various operations to extract valuable insights of users. These insights are manifested as life events, which provide a comprehensive description of different dimensions, including temporal aspects, activity in space, and social interactions.

I'm betting it's related to Apple Intelligence and the new Siri that will roll out next year.