i'm a student in a government medical college in khi. it's a known fact, that my fellow batchmates from rural sindh acknowledge, that there is extreme irregularities in their matric/inter board, and that for years, MDCAT has been leaked in rural sindh. in my attached government hospital, there is an unofficial bias towards hiring sindhi doctors, no matter what their merit/ranking is. this tendency to succeed through unfair means persist when they give international exams. the fun fact is that the real economically backward segment of sindh, who actually deserves quota, never benefits from it. these systems are biased towards the rich, while the poor continue to suffer. i am not an MQM supporter, ik the real situation in rural sindh. requiring a quota after decades shows how PPP has failed its heartland supporters. patients will go into debt coming to karachi for treatment because there's no decent tertiary care hospital near their areas, while lakhs of rupees goes into maintaining benazir's shrine
Clearly he hasn’t had any interaction with a government employee in Karachi.. PPP has deliberately kept rural Sindh illiterate and poor.. at the same time for vote bank it gives them quotas in Urban centres. Where they are put on posts without experience or expertise.. Karachi one of the largest metropolitan in country is a complete mess.. and no one is ready to fix it
Maybe the fact that private sector does not have rural Sindh Quota have to do something with it. Unfortunately, the private sector thrives on something called merit.
most Sindhis take the short cut of using their rural domicile to get a spot in the government machinery
most MQM supporters take the short cut of using their political standing to get a spot in KDA/Water board
the rest of middle class like us have to fight the odds to get a decent education and then work hard for a good job… work hard to get immigration… and then finally a peaceful life…
I've spamming these links about my KSP policy posts in this thread because not many people know about it. Let me say it again: how about having a discussion on how government universities are restricting admissions to rural-Sindh (majority Sindhis) by prioritizing Karachi-based students despite subpar merit scores?
Lack of merit-based access to good and free education in universities of Karachi restricts rural Sindh's opportunities to private sector.
because everyone knows how grades are evaulted in rural sindh boards, and how courrupt it is, i dont think so it is a secret that thousands of kids to interor from karachi to give exams in interior to get a good grade through brides and cheating, and get 90%, why would NED let them steal those seats when top position in karachi is 87%?
Let's say there's virtually no cheating in Karachi board and all other boards are riddled with cheating, even though all boards are working under the same government. How is it a solution to just hand-over seats to Karachi-based students? How about basing the entry tests solely on the entry tests?
yeah that would be amazing and i wish it becomes a reality asap. there should be a single centrilized exam like JEE advanced, controlled by federal authorites
That's why liberals are hated in Pakistan. And the hate is completely justified.
Why doesn't this liberal gentleman talk about all the corruption done by sindhis? Or the amount of hatred sindhis teach to their children about muhajirs and phastuns?
Some of the sindhis believe in nazi styled ethnonationalism. Check the difference between sindh sub and Karachi sub. One of the sub talks about social issues, politics, jobs such as software engineering or Medicine as well as talks about different universities this alone tells you what the interest of people is.
On the other sub most posts are like "sindh sindh sindh sindh, Sindhi language best, urdu speaking losers, karachi will always be part of sindh, urdu media bad blah blah blah. Will this liberal guy ever talk about mass murders of muhajir people?
This list is too small. Urdu speaking people have endured a lot. Of course liberals want to make sure they never speak up about genuine issues. These liberal heroes have sympathy for israel. Nothing good can be expected from shahzad ghias or syed muzammil.
And that's why one can never have a constructive conversation with racists like you, "corruption done by sindhis", a racist like you ensures using a blanket term like that putting all Sindhis on the defensive.
Are there no "mahajirs" in govt jobs who are corrupt? Or are there no Sindhis that aren't corrupt?
What's your source for Sindhis teaching their children hatred when they are clearly more secular than your bunch who always thought lesser of sindhis for being secular, calling them 'closer to Hindus' like that was some insult.
And that's why one can never have a constructive conversation with racists like you, "corruption done by sindhis", a racist like you ensures using a blanket term like that putting all Sindhis on the defensive
So basically you can talk about discrimination commited against sindhis and portray them as good people but the moment you talk about bad things done by sindhis you suddenly become racist? Unbelievable hypocrisy. Not everything is going to be pro sindhi.
Are there no "mahajirs" in govt jobs who are corrupt? Or are there no Sindhis that aren't corrupt
I am surprised to hear that there are muhajir government officers. I thought only sindhis were allowed government jobs. Not even all Sindhis, in fact only a few selected elite higher cast sindhis get these jobs.
What's your source for Sindhis teaching their children hatred when they are clearly more secular than your bunch who always thought lesser of sindhis for being secular, calling them 'closer to Hindus' like that was some insult.
Dude I am an atheist. I don't care about this hindu Muslim card y'all play. While religion in itself is horrible, secular ethnonationalism is by far the worst ideology in existence. Most wars and murders in the 20th century were in fact caused by ethnonationalism. Nazis were secular ethnonationalists. Just read what I share. How Urdu speaking people were killed in Hyderabad due to secularism and nationalism.
Discrimination against Sindhis was pointed out by quoting a policy while your rant is based on your feelings since you consider it smart to outright say ridiculous shit like "I am surprised to hear there are muhajir officers" also you made my point for me by admitting it's a few Sindhis benefitting from government jobs, not everyone.
I don't care about your atheism, I asked what's your source for the claim "Sindhis teach their kids hatred for muhajirs"?
I am surprised to hear that there are muhajir government officers. I thought only sindhis were allowed government jobs
I'm surprised by the delusion here. Do you know that quotas are not based on ethnicity? (Of course except ones introduced by Liaquat Ali Khan for Muhajirs). Do you know that 40% of the government jobs are available to Urban parts of Karachi, Sukkur and Hyderabad. Rest 60% are for the rest of Sindh? Competitive exams like CSS ensure that these quotas are maintained.
Despite rural Sindh being disadvantaged with lack of as better education as Urban candidates (some of which naturally due because that's RURAL), Rural candidates regularly perform better than urban candidates. Here's excerpt from an article by someone advocating to end quotas: https://tribune.com.pk/story/1553353/quota-system-pakistan
Data from the last seven annual competitive examinations for the federal government’s positions show that the ratio of finally qualified candidates from rural Sindh has been better than urban Sindh: 11% of the candidates who appeared in CE-2009 from rural Sindh could finally qualify, 12% in 2010, 11% in 2011, 12% in 2012, 7% in 2013, 9% in 2014 and 11% in 2015. Conversely, only 5% of the candidates could qualify in CE-2009 from urban Sindh; 7% in 2010, 7% in 2011, 5% in 2012, 3% in 2013, 5% in 2014 and 8.4% in 2015.
Didyou read my reply to the comment? Let me write it again, it doesn't matter what percentage passed. We know that the merit cut-off is higher for non-Karachi boards than Karachi-based boards. We know that without the reserved quota for Karachi-based students, more students from non-Karachi based boards would be selected for the admissions.
Let's say, we fix all other boards and their passing ratios are higher now. Number of students selected for admissions from the same boards would still be the same because they bottlenecked by the limited number of seats for them.
It is absolutely True, without any doubt that level of pre school or high school eduacation is competely fkced, there is a huge thing in karachi going on and i personally have seen my firends that how easy it is to gain marks through brides and cheating from interor board of sindh, most of A+ scores from these barods dont even know basic algebra, and dumb asf, which is really unfortunate they also outshine the smart ones.
Ethnic racism will be easier to combat if we can increase living standards and wages of working people. No one is saying this will go away because of this alone but we need to combat the establishment framing of one unitization of this country. We are and always will be a federation. Devolve powers from federal more and let provinces and their districts and lower decide how their money is spent and give us true local governments where we can elect one of our own to handle our local problems like, water , sewage , trash etc. these are our more existential problems.
This includes DHA and other army or establishments housing societies. All should be under civilian jurisdiction absolutely with elected local governments.
There's a bunch of bias in this clip. Against Karachites.
Ok, so the point about tel aviv, no, unfair comparison. Karachi me jo muhajir aaye he wo Separation k time pe Hindustan me apni zameenay chord k aaye he. Aesay kafi saray muhajir he. Inko un zameeno kikagha yaha pe equivalent ya approximately similar property promise ki gyi thi.
The point about liking rich Sindhis and disliking poor Sindhis is also wrong, I don't know anyone from the middle class who's like this.
Also, he misrepresented the open gunfire comment, the person online commented something along the lines of, "inpe open fire q nahi kia?" This sounds like, the person is saying k "jab Isb walay logo pe open fire kia to inpe q nahi kia?"
Which is understandable.
Also, I'm sure k yeh anti-sindhi ek common sentiment he, but I'm not with it, in fact, I'm against it. I believe, equal opportunity for all, and let merit win, but give benefits to less privileged people be they sindhi, siraiki or muhajir.
>Aesay kafi saray muhajir he. Inko un zameeno kikagha yaha pe equivalent ya approximately similar property promise ki gyi thi.
This is totally different discussion. But if the population swap was the same i.e Sindhis who left were replaced by the same number of Muhajirs, Karachi's population wouldn't have gone from 387,000 in 1941 to 1.13 Million in 1951. That's almost 4x increase in population. There was still migration going on even late as 1970s.
> This sounds like, the person is saying k "jab Isb walay logo pe open fire kia to inpe q nahi kia?" Which is understandable.
I don't think the same Karachites are advocating and cheering for firing on protestors in Islamabad. They are cheering and advocating for the same to be done with Sindhi protestors. I'm actually very surprised you still don't find that problematic.
Well, i don't think anyone in the civilians is deserving of being shot by the armed forces which are meant to protect us. If that's what you mean...
I still think that comment was misrepresented. I do know there are people who say shit like, just kill them, on all opposing spectrums of people and beliefs. Doesn't mean that they are right.
I don't really know the full situation about the video, it's just a small clip, in which the guy makes 2 or 3 claims and 2 are flawed.....
As for your point about, the population increase in Karachi, we all know how the refugees from India were treated extremely unfairly...
>As for your point about, the population increase in Karachi, we all know how the refugees from India were treated extremely unfairly...
and so it goes that Jewish people were treated extremely unfairly, therefore they have the right to displace and existing ethnicity, out-number them, and then claim that the land and strategic ports belong to them. I hope you see the similarity.
>I still think that comment was misrepresented. I do know there are people who say shit like, just kill them
and that's problematic to say that, specially if you only reserve this hate for one ethnicity or group of people but not the other. That's what Shehzad is saying.
What did Jewish people leave behind? Not lands which belonged to them, and weren't being taken by someone else.
Was there a separation such as India and Pakistan when they migrated ? No.
What is this point? It's a completely irresponsible comparison.
You, just took, half of my point... I know that to say "just kill them" is problematic. But that comment was not saying that... No one in that clip was saying that, Shehzad made up that meaning from that comment.
I explained the other meaning that comment could've meant, it probably meant that to begin with, since the situation was a similar situation to the protest of D-chok.
Also, it's not problematic to say "just kill them" in a specific case. It's problematic, period. It's wrong. It's unjust. It's tyranny.
>What did Jewish people leave behind? Not lands which belonged to them, and weren't being taken by someone else.
I think you need to read more on this. You don't even know how successful Jewish people were. It doesn't mean they have any right to displace others.
>Was there a separation such as India and Pakistan when they migrated ? No.
I don't think Pakistan Resolution ever mentioned a population swap. The population swap resulted from partition riots, that was unexpected. The land of Pakistan was supposed to be for the people that already lived here.
Anyway, my point was, that the comparison is a flawed point since similarities cannot be drawn.
I do not need to research the success of jews, because it's irrelevant. The Jews, iirc, were being pushed out of their lands... The Indian-Pakistanis, left their properties of their free will because they believed that their new land will have fair accommodations for them. This was a lie...
>. The Indian-Pakistanis, left their properties of their free will because they believed that their new land will have fair accommodations for them.
You literally changed your argument in the same thread. Are you saying that Muslims of India left of their free will with intention of forcefully displacing Hindu Sindhis living in SIndh or were they driven out by extremist Hindus in India, then had to come to Pakistan?
Pakistan was made for people of Pakistan, people that already lived here because they voted for it. Population swap and riots were unexpected and unfortunate. No one had right to displace the other group.
I don't know where you're getting these facts dude...
It is a fact, that it was planned that the Hindus in the Muslim majority lands will move to the Indian side and the Muslims in the Hindu majority lands will move to the Pakistani side. That's where the whole land distribution thing came from...
I did not change my argument, i am not having one, I am trying to say that Shehzad has biases, and that the points he made are unfair and wrongly compared. That's all.
I don't know enough about this video or him to have any arguments...
Did Lahore resolution or Pakistan resolution passed in Sindh assembly said anything of population swap? No. In fact, Pakistan resolution advocated for rights of non-Muslim minorities in Muslim regions like Sindh, Punjab and NWFP and for muslims in the rest of India. Parition and population swap were unfortunate result of riots. Pakistan was NEVER made for every Muslim in India, they were given refuge instead. That's a colonial mindset to say that Pakistan was made for Indian refugees and they own it. Are you willing to take in 172.2 millions of Muslims in India and move them to Pakistan now?
That adequate, effective and mandatory safeguards should be specifically provided in the constitution for minorities in these units and in these regions for the protection of their religious, cultural, economic, political, administrative and other rights and interests in consultation with them; and in other parts of India where the Mussalmans are in a minority, adequate, effective and mandatory safeguards shall be specially provided in the constitution for them and other minorities for the protection of their religious, cultural, economic, political, administrative and other rights and interests in consultation with them.
I agree with whatever you said earlier. But "the land of Pakistan was supposed to be for the people that already lived here." It wasn't. They knew people would migrate. People started migrating just after the announcement of independence. Riots happened but they weren't the reason why people migrated.
I have no horse in the race, but I think it's ridiculous to ignore WHY Karachi grew so much. It was literally the capital of the nation.
You should ask yourself if you actually think partition was right, and if it was, if any Muslims from India should have been allowed to come to Pakistan.
Because to me, it sounds like your argument is "We should have made Pakistan and told the Muslims in India to just stay there and not come here".
I often wonder when the divisions between Sindhi, Punjabi, Balochi, pakhtoon and other sectarian division will end. I hope to see a day when we are united and celebrate our diversity together.
quota system aur merit par agar kaam ho raha hota tou yeh nafrat angaiz comments nhi atay aur shehzad ghias sahab ko "logic" par baat bhi nahi karni parti.
He's showing a very myopic and narrow perspective as Gasman always does.
While he's pointing towards racism towards Sindhis in Karachi, he's ignoring racism by Sindhis towards communities in Karachi. Also, he's ignoring the fact that Karachi was the capital of West Pakistan for the initial 12 years ('47-'59), which fundamentally changed the ethnic shape of the city. It's not like the rest of Sindh in demographics, economy nor education levels.
Diversity should be respected, instead of leaving matters to racists from all sides. Ghias always presents issues in black and white, showing his lack of ability to think critically.
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Sindhi vernacular is not the singular precint of "rural sindhi'....Sindhi is basically Gujarati/Rajhistani language. There was a huge number of urban Sindhis i.e Memons, kathiawaries, Gujaratees, Khojas, who were residents of this area who spoke a vernacular which was categorised as Sindhi speaking. So even if 61% spoke that language, it does not mean prove that people on rural quota have the moral right to steal, bribe , loot and plunder. How do I convince the readers that being Sindhi doesn't mean some sore of right to steal and plunder to undo previous unjustice.
Being muhajir also doesn't give anyone the right to berate Sindhis or view them as a backward community and this video calls out people who use a handful of individuals to justify their hatred towards Sindhis.
Wow woh woh...please stop using these racist termionology....I am an urban sindhi . Its just that rural sindhi has been stealing everything on a quota system. I will get you blocked if you used this racist terminology of muhajir once again, unless this reddit area is manned by yet another rural sindhi who has gotten this internet access paid for by a job gotten on quota system.
Quota systems aren't intended or made for the purpose of "looting." They are made to bridge the gap between groups. So that society doesn't have inequality and generational backwardness just because of not having enough resources in terms of money, connection & exposure. By implementing the Quota system a large number of people from certain groups can break the chain of poverty & illiteracy, which they otherwise couldn't.
Second, the problem is with the implementation of the Quota system in Sindh. The Quota system is exploited for political reasons & corruption so much that even deserving rural Sindhis aren't benefiting from it. Hence, not being able to break generational backwardness.
If its such a lofty idea...why is there no quota system between Rural and Urban in any other province of Pakistan?!
Is the implied message that Rural Sindhis are so uniquely primitive that they will be the singular recipients of this benefit in kind...as if they are genetically inferior...surely that cant be right.
How many receipeients of rural quota can one quote who have gone back to their roots to 'give back' whatever they had been given out of turn to 'even out' ....
None is the answer.
Which brings in the fact that quote system has been used a tool to get admissions, jobs, titles out of turn/merit and than that underserved post has been used to loot, steal and plunder.
Infact it has become a familial entitlement now so much that even within the rural sindhis , the impact has evidently never trickled down.
> If its such a lofty idea...why is there no quota system between Rural and Urban in any other province of Pakistan?
Because Muhajirs, majority of Urban Sindhis, benefited from a quota system soon after the advent of Pakistan. Muhajirs were granted 15% of seats in government position for 9.8% of population despite forcing their alien language Urdu on Sindh and living mainly in urban centers by taking over properties left over by Hindu Sindhis.
This was the state of 1948 quota system:
Were Muhajir primitive to access this quota that was only available to their ethincity? Are Karachi-based students still primitive to access university quotas like KSP policy?
These so called Muhajirs came to Pakistan under a land/asset transfer agreement. They were supposed to get reciprocal properties in Pakistan and the people leaving the Pakistani areas were to be given equivalent like for like in India. Thats why the who concept /ideology of Matruka Sindh , which claims that nearly 2/3rd of present Sindh belong to Urban SIndh because that is approximately the size of land that they abandoned in India. This is teh size which belongs to them as per the land transfer agreement.
Besides so called Muhajirs ( I find that term pejorative) migrated to the Federal Capital of Pakistan...they didnt migrate to anything called Sindh.....its a different story that Bhutto hoodwinked Establishment and annexed this area from One Unit.
This was the same land transfer agreement which was going on in many British territories of those times e.g between Turkey and Greek Cypriots.
Ditto for jobs and posts. It was like for like transfer.
Its a different story though that G.M Syed and his gang had been eyeing the properties of affleuent Hindus of Karachi , Shikarpur, MirpurKhas ....because the more they created stink , the more chances they stood of occupying their ( Hindu) properties...thats why riots were orchestrated in Sukkur, Shikarpur .......much much before the arrival of so called Muhajirs.
The premise of your argument , once again seems that 'it is okay for me to steal now , because I think someone stole off me, some 70 years back'...and that is why I beleive Rural Sindh has been brain washed into some sort of Zionist thinking.
"See India. It has implemented a fairly much better form of it."
Second, I literally said that the implementation of the Quota system is the problem in Sindh. The way it's implemented, and how only a single party is controlling Sindh is the root cause for the benefits of the Quota system not trickling down.
Third, maybe I think you haven't seen Rural Punjab(especially south), rural KPK and Balochistan. They all lack behind. The thing is that in the case of KPK & Punjab. There has been development. So, people don't need a Quota system. Or maybe, it's already in place because the structure is in such a way that normal people benefit from it.
Fourth, I know about Punjab in detail. So I can only talk about it with surety. So, there is cast-based racism & backwardness in rural Punjab. And there is a lot.
My point isn't about even out. My point is that because certain groups have been backward for centuries. We can't just leave them.
>So even if 61% spoke that language, it does not mean prove that people on rural quota
Quotas are not based on ethnicity but for rural and urban backgrounds representing their population shares. I don't know why you mentioned "Sindhi vernacular"?
This quota was introduced by Liaquat Ali Khan to benefit an ethnicity Muhajirs even after imposing Urdu and replacing Sindhi as the official language of Sindh.
>Sindhi doesn't mean some sore of right to steal and plunder to undo previous unjustice.
Quotas are used by the whole world to equally represent different demographics. It is racist to say that they are used to "plunder"? Why are you not talking about quota like KSP policy which restricts education of rural-based Students of Sindh?
I wont engage with you any further unless you openly and explicitly say that people on Rural Sindh Quota does not have moral entititlement to loot, steal and plunder resources of Sindh.
Imagine how you'd feel if a white supremacist said that people belonging to particular group are looting and plundering due to affirmative action policies like DEI meant to equally represent different ethnic groups in government positions.
I still don't understand how a policy meant to represent all ethnic groups equally as their population share, ensuring that they are competitive enough to have the position is enabling them to "loot and plunder", specially if the same policy was used to benefit Muhajirs in 1948. It is messed up to believe that a particular ethnicity is more likely to cause corruption.
I sense a resemblance here , recalling perceived old misjustices to justify current bad behavior is hall mark of zionism.
Quota System is the root of all evil. Rural Sindh Quota has been in action for 50 years now.
If anything, Urban Sindh has suffered severely and there needs to be an affirmative action quota favoring Urban Sindh this time now. That too for another 50 years just for equality.
Compare the last 5 decades to the first few decades of Karachi/Sindh...it shows that people on merit delivered and got better results. It all went south once we had Rural Quota and this dackaitocracy masquerading as democracy.
I have given you benefit of doubt there, please say out aloud that people coming on Rural Quota do not automatically have right to steal, loot and plunder.
Sindh is literally the most backwards province in this country. That's not my personal opinion. That's facts.
It's the only province where the literacy rate is decreasing 😂😂. Can you imagine the level of jahalat lmao. Like there was one village during 2022 floods from which people wouldn't leave because they don't let their women get out of the house 🤣🤣🤣.
Just take karachi out of sindh, and the literacy rate drops below 10%, most probably. Sindh topi sindhi ajrak kartay kartay reh gye.
All of Private Ltd employees and CEOs, etc, are mostly urdu speaking people. The whole business community in karachi is held by Memon Community, which is Urdu speaking.
Even after decades of looting and plundering resources, they couldn't even produce anything productive. If they did name one. Any hospital? Any organisation? Any NGO? Any top tier school/university?
Cause, of course, cheating and getting high marks in matric board can only get you so far in life.
Can't get educated, can't work with merit, can't do business without eliminating the competition. How do you expect to thrive?
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