r/gaming • u/CiabattaKatsuie Console • Oct 01 '24

The games industry is undergoing a 'generational change,' says Epic CEO Tim Sweeney: 'A lot of games are released with high budgets, and they're not selling'

https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-industry/the-games-industry-is-undergoing-a-generational-change-says-epic-ceo-tim-sweeney-a-lot-of-games-are-released-with-high-budgets-and-theyre-not-selling/

Tim Sweeney apparently thinks big budget games fail because... They aren't social enough? I personally feel that this is BS, but what do you guys think? Is there a trend to support his comments?

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u/dig_dude Oct 02 '24

I revel in the Schadenfrude too, but then I remember the hundreds of workers who get laid off and dozens of studios closed when these games fail. I wish we could have good games and workers' rights.

I know the money has to come from somewhere. I know developers need a deadline otherwise they'll bloat the game to death. I just wish I worked a little differently. I've recently finished Psychodyssey and Blood, Sweat, and Pixels. Great insight in the game industry for those who haven't experienced them.

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u/UnnamedStaplesDrone Oct 02 '24

a lot of them get laid off anyway even if their game is successful once the game is done

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u/TWK128 Oct 02 '24

Yeah, at least in these cases they're laid off for more legitimate reasons.

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u/MudraStalker Oct 02 '24

Not really. They're just laid off because companies don't want to pay whatever bonuses the devs might get because the micrometer drop in some graph will cause mass investor, C suite, and board member hysteria as the idea of getting 3 less dollars causes their gross fucking hearts to start imploding in incandescent, terrified fury.

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u/logicsol Oct 02 '24

If it makes you feel any better, remember that a significant portion of those workers got laid off the second the game launched regardless of it's sales performance.

I'd wager that most of the games industry work force doesn't work for a company longer than 2 games.

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u/theKetoBear Oct 02 '24

They consider you a senior in the game industry at many studios after working for 4 years , meaning if you last 4 years you have lasted far longer than the typical game industry employee. The ones who last 10 / 20 + years are unicorns

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u/_sLAUGHTER234 Oct 02 '24

I hate to bring everything to this point, but I truly think the issue is capitalism

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u/TheObstruction PC Oct 02 '24

When is it not?

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u/Alicenchainsfan Oct 02 '24

I usually say unregulated capitalism, but yes

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u/_sLAUGHTER234 Oct 02 '24

Is our current system not under some form of regulation? Our capitalism is not unregulated, and yet it is eating away at everything good in this world

I use to feel the way you do, but I've recognized that it's mostly due to personal biases and the fact that I do benefit from capitalism in many ways

Unfortunately, half measures ain't gonna cut it anymore. Capitalism is the issue

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u/primalmaximus Oct 02 '24

The biggest problem is that a lot of the biggest game studios and IT companies are based in the US. And the US has very little laws in place designed to prevent the types of mass layoffs that you see happen whenever a studio finishes development on a game or when the IT company overextends their personnel budget and is forced to make massive layoffs.

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u/_sLAUGHTER234 Oct 02 '24

The US is the current global enforcer of capitalism, of course it's not gonna have laws in place to protect against such things

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u/primalmaximus Oct 02 '24

Yeah. So again... it's unregulated because it doesn't have laws that prevent the exploitation of the workers via mass layoffs.

In no other industry aside from agriculture do you routinely see mass layoffs at the end of every financial period or at the conclusion of every major project.

And with agriculture it's to be expected. Outside of planting season and harvesting season you generally don't need large amounts of manpower.

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u/_sLAUGHTER234 Oct 02 '24

That's not what unregulated means. There are many regulations in US capitalism, just not many in your favor

Capitalism is a cancer that needs to die

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u/Alicenchainsfan Oct 02 '24

Yeah, I agree

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u/The_Kimchi_Krab Oct 02 '24

"IIIII'M THE MAN....IN. THE. BOX.

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u/Wotg33k Oct 02 '24 edited Oct 02 '24

I'm a developer. I'm not in the game industry professionally, but it's why I'm a developer overall. Indie dev first, professional dev second.

I am also a huge anti corpo proponent. Can't stand modern corporations. They remind me of 2077 corpos.

I also agree with you guys that we don't need another clone of Fortnite.

Outlaws to me, though, wasn't that, and I'd like to focus on it for a second.

Outlaws was the first new-age star wars game to really draw me in. I wasn't nearly as drawn to all the ones prior to it. When I hit a few hours in, I knew I could actually play through it.

But I'm not. I haven't.

Apex legends has been open on my desktop for the better part of the last two hours while I've sat here after work and typed on Reddit.

And this is the point I'd like us all to see. I noticed recently that the randos I pick up in Apex who have open mics are all watching tiktok videos between games. Some of them can only barely put the phone down when we land.

Back to me and my last 2 hours.. we're all slowly being pulled away from one addiction and feeding another.

I know because I've also dealt with multiple addictions for my entire life. The juxtaposition between them looks a lot like what I do in my evenings. It isn't gaming anymore. It's game for a minute, scroll for a minute. Game for a minute, scroll for a minute. "Which of you two can capture my attention at the moment?"

I think we're all doing this and I think it's why we're seeing games fail. Not necessarily because they're all shit. Don't get me wrong, plenty are. But outlaws stands out to me and a few others do, too. I can date this to RDR2's launch or so for myself. There's no reason at all why my hours in that game are so low given the masterpiece that it is and the hours I have in the first one.. but they are.

I'll add that launchers and slow startup times and blah blah don't help them. The more I have to do before the game captures me, the more likely I am to be captured by my phone first.

I write this more for the company than I do for the gamer. They are failing because they cannot grasp their competition, but I've lain it bare here in this post for all of us to see.

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u/Alicenchainsfan Oct 02 '24

Thoughtful and I see your vision here, but I think you’d find others that believe the game very much lacks what they want in a game. I agree we’re surrounded by our bad habits and constant need for pleasure, but personally when I’m in a game that I love, I’m immersed and I’m not thinking about life or anything other than learning the new mechanics and exploring the game.

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u/Wotg33k Oct 02 '24

Right. Yes. True AF.

The problem is right there in your statement tho.

"When I'm immersed in a game". They're failing to get us there. Not because the games aren't immersive, especially when looking at RDR2 or outlaws, but because we cannot be immersed as easily anymore.

What's really interesting is that my 14 year old son shares the same sentiment. He is "bored of gaming". Lots of his peers do, too.

That's a big fkn deal.

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u/Alicenchainsfan Oct 02 '24

Yeah but I attribute that to the quality of the games rather than doomscrolling

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u/Wotg33k Oct 02 '24

I think I do with most also. It doesn't explain the outliers, though, and it very much seems true with them.

It'll be interesting to see what new titles do as they come out. POE2 for instance is far less mainstream, but I'll bet we can compare numbers between POE1 and POE2 6 months in and see less people on 2 than 1 had 6 months in.

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u/Alicenchainsfan Oct 02 '24

I’m pumped for Poe 2, I feel like they’re going to do a bit more of a marketing push this time around especially with tencent behind em, but I dunno let’s see

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u/Wotg33k Oct 02 '24

Same. Same.

But, again.. I was pumped for like the last 3, too, and I found myself doing the same thing I've described.

I'm confident there's a lot like you who aren't juggling both addictions, but I'm also confident there's far too many of us who are like I used to be: offended that anyone even said it could be an addiction. I'm willing to wager there's two like me to every one like you, at least. That's why I worry overall. Again, as a developer myself.. if I were running a company right now, it'd be a lot like y'all were asking me for worse games somehow and I wouldn't know what to work towards because all the old stuff doesn't work anymore and there isn't really any new stuff to do.

Even POE2 is arguably just a copy of Diablo 1. Lol.

Btw. We're at 2.5 hours of apex being on my screen and no game being played.

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u/Alicenchainsfan Oct 02 '24

Haha add me bro I’ll fire up some apex

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u/Wotg33k Oct 02 '24

I'm down. What's your steam?

I'm ranked, though. Gold 2 or so. Diamond level when I'm at my best.

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u/Alicenchainsfan Oct 02 '24

As with everything usually, we’re both probably kinda right

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u/Wotg33k Oct 02 '24

Very fair.

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u/Ki11igraphy Oct 02 '24

I would like to say a few things about Outlaws. When it was first announced, i was excited for a Starwars game without a Jedi as the MC . As time went on and the more I saw i was less enthused , I decided this would not be a day 1 buy . A good friend, on the other hand, had picked it up and let me hold onto it for the past 2* weeks. I have managed to put a good +20 hrs. In spite of many bugs and basic issues, I have had a mostly enjoyable experience. i feel it absolutely needed more time to bake (QA) but not as bad a game or deserving of as much hate it has gotten .

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u/Wotg33k Oct 02 '24 edited Oct 02 '24

Yeah. They do release too early these days.

I dunno. I'm old. My first real PC game was EverQuest 1 on release day in 1999.

I remember camping at GameStop for a release.

And look how far we've come now.

If outlaws was released in 1999, it would have blown people's skulls open. But it was released today and we're bored.

It isn't the company's fault. It's the consumer's. We have no idea how far down the rabbit hole we've gone in just 24 years.

I remember GameStop telling all the campers no because the company cancelled the release.

They literally had the games in the back and wouldn't sell them to us because the publisher said no. Imagine being feet from the new game you preordered with cash at the register and them telling you no you can't have it. You can see the box it's in.