r/formula1 • u/Racing5000 • 1d ago
News 'Your pain is our pain' - What saved biggest Verstappen wobble
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/what-saved-max-verstappen-biggest-red-bull-tension/721
u/kacang2 Sergio Pérez 1d ago
Hungary race definitely is the key turning point. For both better or worse. It brings the realisation that the upgrades sucked, and more work need to be done during the break. It also bring the big differences with Checo. As much as Iike Checo, sadly the responses from both drivers after such setbacks is so different in results. Max is really one hell of a driver.
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u/ExternalSquash1300 1d ago
Did the upgrades suck? It was the second fastest on track even with a strategy Max considered shit. With a good strategy it could’ve reliably challenged the mclarens at the front.
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u/aiiqa 1d ago edited 1d ago
Max also considered the handling shit. So either setup or upgrades sucked. And the handling issues were a returning issue by that point. That strongly suggests it wasn't just a setup mistake.
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u/ExternalSquash1300 1d ago
Regardless, it did seem to have the pace to be at least top 2.
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u/aiiqa 1d ago
Having maximum pace means little if car response is unreliable. The drivers couldn't lean on the tires at all. You can get away with that for a few laps. But not for a full race.
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u/ExternalSquash1300 1d ago
But in Hungary it was pretty clearly Max and the strategists who fucked up, not the car. He could’ve overtaken Hamilton and with good strategy he could’ve fought for the win. It wasn’t the handling that ruined it.
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u/Jorrie90 Pirelli Intermediate 1d ago
The car handled horrendous at times, sometimes the car wouldn't turn smoothly so yeah, some things were wrong.
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u/ExternalSquash1300 1d ago
Wrong sure but it absolutely had pace to compete at the top.
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u/Chaoshero5567 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 1d ago
The pace is called Verstappen
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u/ExternalSquash1300 1d ago
He has amazing pace but you have no way of knowing if it was that pace that made it the 2nd - 1st best car that day or the car and max.
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u/mformularacer Michael Schumacher 1d ago
Sure we do, we look at his team mate's performance in the same car.
The mistake people make when evaluating driver errors is simply counting them against the driver as if they were points left on the table, without considering if those points would have even been on the table for any other driver. In this case, it's highly unlikely.
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u/ExternalSquash1300 1d ago edited 15h ago
We could use the teamate if they were a quality driver like every other top team, unfortunately Red Bull hired Pérez and he was underperforming so bad that even when Max had a shit weekend, he would finish ahead of Pérez. Pérez is no indication of how good the car is that weekend.
Also, max absolutely fucked up in Hungary. That’s not really negotiable.
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u/Aberracus Ferrari 23h ago
I do think the car was very bad for Perez driving style, and good for max’s; the car was shit anyway, but max is superb, I’m not sure any second driver from other team would have been better than Perez, discounting sainz and russel? I’m not sure about piastri in that seat either.
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u/ExternalSquash1300 15h ago
Piastri was performing far better than Pérez. Whether it suited Pérez or not, in terms of actual results with the quality of the car, Pérez was debatably the worst driver this year. Almost anyone else would’ve been preferable in that seat this year.
Anyway, Pérez simply can’t be used as a standard for the car because of his objective underperformance (which got him fired despite the massive financial attraction he brings).
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u/mformularacer Michael Schumacher 1d ago
In that case why should verstappen be any indication of how good the car is that weekend. He overperforms just as much as Perez underperforms
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u/ExternalSquash1300 1d ago
Seriously? Max is fast but he is not so far ahead of every other top tier driver that he can make a mediocre car look like one of the best. It’s much easier to lean towards Pérez being shit because we are comparing them to the best drivers on the grid, not drivers like lance.
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u/UMakeMeMoisT 1d ago
Yes it did suck. Max having understeer in almost every corner as could be seen on the onboards, isnt something that can be looked at and say hey its fast.
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u/banned20 Formula 1 1d ago
he didn't have understeer. He had massive oversteer that needed a lot of correction that created the understeer. So yeah, basically the handling was shit.
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u/only_r3ad_the_titl3 Esteban Ocon 1d ago
"even with a strategy Max considered shit" - did you consider it good?
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u/ExternalSquash1300 1d ago
No, I just figured Max’s opinion on the strategy held more weight than mine.
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u/Smooth-Doge 1d ago
Rah did you watch the same race? The car was so bad that max was complaining about the car and screaming at the shit strategy the whole race. There were memes about it for a week.
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u/ExternalSquash1300 1d ago
Max complaining about strategy and handling doesn’t mean the pace was off which is the most importantly factor. If max didn’t fuck up and they had a decent strategy he could’ve reliably fought for 1st there. The car had the pace and was debatably the fastest that week, at the very least the second fastest.
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u/creatorop Carlos Sainz 1d ago
i wonder if the RB21 will be able to atleast be in the mix for consistent wins and poles
they defo Identified the fundamental errors in the RB20 when they brought the cota upgrades, but ig didnt want to blow the budget on development and rather fix those issues in the new car
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u/Other_Beat8859 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 21h ago
I think they will. They also have extra wind tunnel time compared to McLaren so that should help a bit.
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u/Doxxter 1d ago
Low quality article by Race.
Tl Dr
"We all sat after a few bad races in summer and agreed that we are in this together. Let's work as a team and fix the problems which Max was unhappy about, and turn this around again."
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u/creatorop Carlos Sainz 1d ago
it still took them till atleast the Autumn break to be completely on top of the problems
the car was defo more competitive in the last 2 triple headers than the Zandvoort-Singapore stretch
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u/PomegranateThat414 1d ago
It was better but the car was still just 3rd fastest basically everywhere bar qatar where it was 2nd fastest, and even that because something strange and unexplainable happened to mercedes on sunday where for whatever reason they lost their pace relative yo mclaren.
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u/Cekeste Bernie Ecclestone 1d ago
I don't understand why they keep insisting on writing these kind of articles. The site has more fillers than actual content at this point.
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u/Suikerspin_Ei Honda RBPT 1d ago
The more people read or visit their website, the more money they get from ads.
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u/HankHippopopolous Murray Walker 1d ago
They have article quotas to hit and it’s the off season so there is no actual news.
They will continue to pump out shit like this until the car launch season.
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u/Cekeste Bernie Ecclestone 1d ago
Who's putting up those quotas? They're self employed now. And they got the members club. Seems like greed.
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u/ryokevry Charles Leclerc 1d ago
Just need to be able to find the really good analysis and exclusive interviews from those filler.
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u/lickit_sendit Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 1d ago
RBR might not have gotten back the pace advantage back, but they sure seem to have gotten a handle on their major issues. Holds them in good stead coming into 2025.. especially with the additional aero time.. I actually think they will come back out on top in 2025.
And with even a marginally faster car, Max will be a 5 time WDC
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u/dennis3282 Formula 1 1d ago
Even with a marginally slower car than the competition, Max is probably a 5x world champion
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u/creatorop Carlos Sainz 1d ago
they would have additonal aero time for the second half of 2025, and i think they would rather dedicate majority of it to the 2026 car rather than the 2025 one exception being a very tight title fight which can be a very big possibility in 2025
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u/Spacetrucking Michael Schumacher 1d ago
Everyone said the same thing in 2021, when they were in the middle of a very intense fight with Mercedes. And after Mercedes stopped actively developing the chassis after Silverstone and instead focused more on engine modes, everyone thought they would nail the 2022 regs with the extra resources devoted to it. And RBR were still bringing upgrades until the last few races and people thought they would be at a disadvantage for the next set of regulations.
At the time, Horner countered that thinking by saying every year counts. It doesn't matter if it's this regulations or the next set, you have to find a balance and can't let any opportunity slip away. RBR 2021 and BMW 2008 are great examples to learn from.
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u/stuntman1525 Yuki Tsunoda 1d ago
and they absolutely did nail the 2022 regs. “Advantage locked in for years?”
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u/Chrisi1211 AlphaTauri 1d ago
No they already get 10% more aero time starting January as it will always be calculated half yearly
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u/Icretz 1d ago
Their aero starts in Jan 2025. I think they struggled in 2024 due to constantly having way less aero development time than the competition. At some point it will affect you no matter how good you are. That's the point of it. I'm expecting a slight decline in performance for McLaren due to them having 70% development time.
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u/only_r3ad_the_titl3 Esteban Ocon 1d ago
also their wind tunnel is pretty old iirc that certainly does not help them at all
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u/Dutchie405 1d ago
“It’s that passion, it’s that heart, that makes him the person, the driver that he is.”
This quote says it all.
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u/PM_me_BBW_dwarf_porn 1d ago edited 1d ago
People always forget some things about Hungary:
A. Max was able to brake much later than Lewis as evidenced by previous laps where even when not attempting an overtake he was braking significantly later into turn 1.
B. Lewis changed his line under braking. Not by a crazy amount but by enough to cause Max to lock up when he was on the limit trying an overtake.
C. If B doesn't happen and there's no contact, there's a very different perception of Max's mindset.
D. Whether you agree with what he said or not, he gave a much needed reality check and set the tone for what was to come.
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u/Wgolyoko Sir Lewis Hamilton 1d ago
Nice PR piece, not a single worthy word through the whole article.
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