I mean... as a German, when I was in the United States, I adjusted to the tipping habits because I understand that that's basically supposed to be what benefits the waiter/waitress.
Still, the real issue here is that the employers should pay their workers a good wage. Wages in the US are fucked as is in large parts and not a single person in the gastronomic industry deserves to live off the good will of customers.
As an American, totally agree. Itâs terrible, and lots of Americans wish it was different. Unfortunately, itâs not really as easy as âjust donât tipâ because then hardworking people get hurt in the process of trying to help them. Itâs a hard issue to tackle until we get legislation requiring higher wages for servers
Yeah even in WA we donât make all that much compared to the cost of living. I was a server/bartender out here for a while and even making 4k a month (sometimes with tips, not always) Iâd have to have roommates to afford a crappy apartment with no yard and too many rules.
They're still expected to get tips here. My friend works in the service industry and she'll get 35 an hour plus tips at some caters. It's wild. She normally gets minimum which is 15 something here, I think, plus tips.
They'll get hit harder when people stop going out.. or so so less frequently and the place closes down.
Your argument is EXACTLY what those fucking greedy bastards who own these joints want you to think.
..and that's exactly what is happening.. people are eating out less.. it's just too expensive.. think about it.. you go out 4 times.. you've effectively paid for 5 outings.. and that's on top of just normal inflationary rises in food etc.
The service industry need to unionize.. really fast..
My understanding is, that a goodish full time service job will get you an average or above average income and that servers are mostly not interested in regulating tips.
As a german, I feel it's a very american oddity to preference serving jobs over others.
I loved serving because I am a people person. I didnât have the experience needed to do other jobs where I could have the same kinds of interactions and use my people skills. But serving, I could schmooze and banter all day and get paid better for doing so. Itâs way more fun than fast food or retail, generally speaking. I love my job now because itâs consistent and I never get harassed or berated, but sometimes I think it would be fun to go to a shift at a local sports bar again just for the atmosphere. I definitely donât understand doing it for an entire career into adulthood unless you were working fine dining, but to each their own
Plenty of waiters and waitresses make more than the managers of the restaurants they work at when you include tips. And the idea has always been pushed that it is a noble job where the harder you work the more you succeed by getting tipped more. Â
It is also funny, because apparently he makes it a point to tip well, because he doesn't want people to think he actually believes that, but the more time goes by the more people agree with every single thing he says lol. But I'm pretty sure he's supposed to come off as a whiny asshole in that scene.
I am familiar with the scene, but why only in personal service?
The kitchen usually doesn't see shit of the tip and I have doubts, they work less hard. I feel the only thing, tipping tries to acomplish, is to make service workers kiss your ass harder. I think it's fucking dehumanzing to have your percieved performance graded after each interaction, while your fucking livelyhood depends upon it.
I think the logic is that they are the ones dealing with the customer, so they are the ones who earned the tip. They are also expected to "tip out" and share with the busboys and kitchen staff, but most just straight up don't from my experience.Â
I know it is dumb, and it doesn't help anyone. Doesn't make the service better or the meals cheaper, either. The staff is over worked, and the companies realized they could just charge more whether they paid the livable wages or not.Â
I remember hearing when I was younger that European wait staff was rude, because they didn't have to worry about tips. My experience was the exact opposite. They are way more chill. They aren't overworked and overstressed because of having to put on a service act for handouts.
So...yes and no. Full-time service work (which in the US can be a boss asking you to be avail 7 days/wk at the drop of a text) generally pays $30k-60k annually, with limited benefits.
That range varies quite a bit between things like being a rideshare driver vs. a restaurant hostess vs. a hotel valet. Those are all jobs you can do with a limited understanding of English and no college degree. But it's also not that uncommon for people in those jobs to be 30+ years old and trying to buy homes and start families. Without their wages being subsidized by tips, it won't ever happen for most of them.
It's an increasingly competitive landscape out here, and not a lot of indoor opportunities for people who don't have a lot of education. Many of us see "entry-level" on a job description and instantly gag because we know that it actually probably means "experience required."
My partner (to give an example) started college after high school. Then he stopped and became a bar tender full time. He couldn't afford to live alone.
We met and relocated to a more affordable town, where he continued bar tending. Now that he's 10+ yrs into the industry, he's an AGM, which is like saying he's second in command at his current restaurant or first in command when the GM is out.
On the other hand, he went back to school because even though the money is better, dealing with the public was never intentional.
Getting to have a "real job" is something many of us (especially those who were working age during the housing crash) have seen as mostly a pipe dream.
I myself got out of the service industry for my mental health. But even with a degree, it was quite a process of failures and tears. Not everyone is up to it.
I am absolutely with you: workers get treated like dirt and I certainly don't want you to lose your small piece of the pie.
I have very mixed feeling about tipping as a vehicle of social mobility. One the one hand, it's amazing, that there is this way to actually get by nicely on uNsKiLlEd labor. On the other hand that makes american service culture a hell scape, where your livelyhood depends on the goodwill of horrible, abusive people, including your employer. This might work out fine like for your partner, but just as often it does not.
I worked burger king full time for a few years and I am deeply grateful, I never needed to go above and beyond for our customers.
Since the abolition of tipping is a hypothetical already. Maybe imagine a world, where the job market isn't fucked and education is affordable. That's where I would like to drop tipping.
Sure :) Thanks for engaging. I've never worked fast food; I don't have enough control over the expressions on my face, lol
Anyway, tipping isn't a vehicle for social mobility.
This whole thread is a good example of what happens irl in America daily.
You have a few people who know what it's like to literally suck rich dicks for rent money. And those service workers (since we can't pretend sex work is anything other than tipped service work) generally will tip others, even if they're on the brink of homelessness themselves.
I know, because I've lived it. Especially in the city, not tipping a service worker is like saying, "I care 0% whether your children eat tonight."
Then you have the rich a-holes who behave in such a way as to have their dukes up whenever the subject of tipping comes around. They have some passionate idealogical argument for why their treatment of their fellow man is actually a good thing. The people who argue that tips keep service people fat and happy are probably benefiting from the fact that most service workers don't ever have access to full life or health insurance benefits, which in this country means they will work until they die. They will likely live shorter, less healthy lives with worse access to education throughout their lives.
For those of us who have seen how those people behave behind closed doors, it's obvious what's important to them is maintaining the status quo.
So, I wouldn't necessarily agree that things "worked out fine" for my partner. I don't believe in god or fate, so when I look at this person I love, who is daily just a cog in someone's machine, my heart breaks. He's a wonderful artist. But our economy doesn't generally value artsy men who feel, nor does it encourage most citizens to take part in public help.
I feel hopeful for his future. But I know he'd be happier/more confident if he didn't have to pretend he's someone weak/unskilled while he's at work 70+ hrs/wk.
If I could change 1 thing about America, it would be to remove sexist stigmas that keep women vulnerable to becoming sex workers and men vulnerable to drug dealing & or suicide. I see all of these issues as deeply intertwined.
lol, another long answer, oops. I tried to cut it down. You got me going, I love discussing this type of things w other non Americans (I'm half Bolivian myself)
I agree completely with the need to unionize, and I know itâs what they want me to think but unfortunately itâs also true. Personally, I think itâs better to not go to a restaurant to fight the issue rather than going, requiring a server to give you service, and then not tip. Thatâs just not cool. I feel that way about non-Americans visiting the US too. I get it if you donât like the tipping culture in the US, but if you arenât going to tip, donât go out to eat at a sit down place. Servers donât get stiffed and restaurants donât get the business, works for everyone.
I think this is more prominent in other parts of the US from where I live (So Cal). We are still expected to tip but our minimum wage is $16/hour for all jobs. McDonaldâs pays $17/hour to high school kids.
Not necessarily a living wage I suppose but better than the horror stories I have heard in other parts of the country where they RELY on the tips because they pay wait staff nothing.
That, and they make more money from tips than a normal job.Â
Hell, my brother was the manager at an IHOP. He fucking hated it, because he made more money at the same place as a waiter.Â
He moved and went to a different one, and they eventually asked if he wanted to be the manager there. He turned it down, because he didn't want the pay cut, lol.Â
I don't get it, US says it's the greatest nation of the world. The nation of freedom. They even make the attack to the CapitĂłlio (sry don't know the English translation), for what was a very dumb Guy. With so many riots about so many things. How , why didn't make a peaceful riot for the economic situation about the restaurants industry and and the tipping situations. I think it's a really big deal. It's a big part of the market (restaurants and food service) so fundamental and yet to dumb.
The attack on the Capitol was done by a small subset of Americans, trust me when I say that most Americans do not endorse that behavior. And truthfully riots are not that common, so Iâm not sure what youâre referring to there. And while the tipping culture is frustrating, most people do not care enough to actually get up and protest it.
itâs not really as easy as âjust donât tipâ
Except it is. They make tons of money through tips that's why they don't leave for minimum wage jobs. It's literally the open secret everyone in the industry is aware of.
EDIT: I never tip tipping is stupid. Let them get an actual job if it impacts them that much lol.
Iâm guessing you also donât go back to the same restaurant twice and arenât a regular at any neighborhood spots. Youâd get a reputation pretty quickly
I was a server. You do not make âtonsâ of money, but you will pretty much definitely make a bit more than minimum wage depending on what kind of place you work at. I probably usually made about $15/hr on average, more during football season since I worked at a sports bar. I donât think thatâs an unfairly high wage at all, but I do think that I shouldnât have had to rely on tips to get it, it should have been up to my employers to pay me an actual hourly wage. Not tipping in places where servers are only making $2.15/hr will just hurt those people who rely on those tips to pay rent, feed their families, and more, but we can push for changing the minimum wages for servers so they can make enough without needing 20% tips to pay bills. Not tipping doesnât push the restaurant owners to pay staff more, it pushes them to hire people willing to work for less, like high school kids
Actually if everyone didn't tip it would resolve the issue. As nobody would want to be a waiter anymore, supply and demand, the restaurants have to cough up.
If it was a simple and ideal world, sure. But itâs not, and part of the issue is that if current servers quit bc of bad wages, places would just hire people that are more desperate, of which there are plenty. I think it would be extremely difficult to change without unionizing. With a union, I think it could change in a matter of months
Go work a 13 hour shift at a restaurant without a break and tell me again that itâs not a real job. Just because youâre having to rely on tips rather than a biweekly paycheck doesnât make the work any less.
I did when I was 18-19, then i moved on to an actual job. Waiting is a teen job, a job for morons who can take an order and carry a plate and not do much eles, and entitled beggers too lazy/stupid to get a real career/job.
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u/RobinRedbreast1990 Aug 28 '24
I mean... as a German, when I was in the United States, I adjusted to the tipping habits because I understand that that's basically supposed to be what benefits the waiter/waitress.
Still, the real issue here is that the employers should pay their workers a good wage. Wages in the US are fucked as is in large parts and not a single person in the gastronomic industry deserves to live off the good will of customers.