As a European, I agree. I know that tipping culture is wildly different across the globe, but you adjust yourself to the culture you visit, not the other way around.
I have noticed that as an American traveling abroad, I will make every effort to adjust to the culture of the country I am visiting. But, it doesn’t seem like when people are visiting the States, they don't bother to adjust to our culture. I have also noticed Europeans generally like to look down on Americans and our very existence, which in my case isn't my fault lol.
I was explained to, at length how important the culture is in Germany & Italy (where I visited), and yes they showed very little interest in hearing about my cultural background along with where I came from. All because I am American and barf "don't tell me about it, it sounds horrible." Well, thanks for making me feel better about the shithole I happen to live in!
So....basically zero effort was put in on their part. It is honestly a 2-way street. If you want me to care about your culture's ways, then learn also learn about mine.
Ig when some parts of the culture are so ridiculously stupid people aren't interested in it/ dont care abt it. If i travelled to America i wouldn't be following these ridiculous tipling rules of 25% because I don't earn American wages lol. I'll tip if the people serving me make an effort and it feels like they care and want to make the experience enjoyable, but not for absolutely anything and certainly not 25%.
For both of us, no matter where you are...it's an uphill battle when it comes to tipping in the States. I don't like the tipping culture and I would rather not tip. But unfortunately, that isn't how it works, and if I were to not tip at all my local establishments, the wait staff would be less inclined to provide me service due to the lack of tipping. I now tip 20% because anything less than that seems to be an insult to the waitstaff.
It sucks, I know. But once people start tipping it becomes the norm, it is equally as hard to get rid of it.
That being said, I was elaborating on other aspects besides tipping. I was talking more about the fact that the locals did not care to hear anything I had to say about my life at home but then wanted me to care about their life's. It's like everyone else lacked empathy all around and they only wanted me to care about their culture and did not ask me much about mine.
I mean as I'd only be going on holiday there i wouldn't be worried about getting bad service in the future as i wouldn't be a regular, but yes i do understand your point. I personally enjoy learning about other aspects of American culture as i have some American mates and some of it does sound fun. Ig it depends where you go tho tbh, europe is incredibly different every country you visit and some countries just happen to be very ignorant and very rude (looking at you france) but not everywhere is so stubborn.
Omg, and I want to go to France but what you just said would be the hard part. I guess we all have to learn and grow, lol. That's how I plan to grow and expand past my small little bubble over here.
I mean I've been to paris twice now and it was a nice place with great food and tourist attractions, but the people aren't great. They also can't drive for shit which is pretty irritating lmao! Despite that tho if you wanna go it's worth it.
Of course, but that’s not the battle for tourists, basically as a tourist you come off only as a jerk if you don’t pay the tip, knowing the whole situation. Or, if you think it’s such exploitation, you don’t use the service at all.
I mean yeah, that's objectively true. But that's way better than placing the onus on customers to pay the workers' wage. And if you regularly tip well, you're not even going to notice an overall cost increase to begin with.
Ironically, the people that would complain the most about price increases are tip-culture opponents who never tipped to begin with lol
Because in the USA there are a few scant restaurants that do not do tipping or are specifically no tipping
People complain that they are "Pricey"....yea their menu items are about 15%-18% higher then a "tipping" place
Like you go to a regular restaurant order a meal and a drink its $17 , but you know you are expected to leave what a 20% tip so you end up paying around $20 with tip
In a non-tipping place they will price the meal and a drink for ...$20 , you are not expected to leave a tip
People will still complain the non-tipping place is too "Pricey" because at the other place a meal only cost $17
I can only imagine people who make such claims are not picking up the bill. I feel like most people just remember the total amount they spent last time they went to a restaurant - not the price of each individual item. "Last time we went there the bill was $60 compared to $45 at the other place".
Because the price is higher anyway with the tipping. Because the prices have been rising steadily without paying the serving staff or kitchen staff more anyway. Because it is complete horseshit.
They're a small vocal minority with no meaningful lobbying voice. It's mostly the restaurant owners (and their orgs) fighting to keep the tip credit system so they can keep labor costs lower.
The people who have it the best are the restaurant owners who are allowed to shift the wage burden directly onto consumers. A handful of servers who make strong income because of the top credit system is not why it stays in place. It's because almost every restaurant owner supports it, and lobbies to have it protected.
It’s funny because the employees advocate for tipping more so than the owners. This is because most tips are paid in cash and the employees make a decent chunk of change and don’t report it on their taxes. You’d think they’d be the ones crying out against the restaurant owners, but nope. They’re both happy with screwing customers out of their money.
I can see the owner point of view as everything looks cheaper than it is. I "sell" a burger for $10 let's say but then there's 7% sales tax + 20% * ($10+$.70) = $12.84. So on the menu everything looks 25 - 30% cheaper than it really is. This must stimulate demand. I own a restaurant in Europe. I charge $10 for a burger and that includes tax + serving staff. I would love to charge $8 and actually collect $10.
And you’ll also find plenty of workers who think unions are bad but across the board it’s better for the workers. Just because they have an opinion doesn’t make it factually true. The bosses convince workers to go against their own self interest all the time.
This. Before I moved to Europe, I bought my plane trip here with tip money scrounge and saved over a few years of working as a waitress. Even if I get bad service, I still tip. We all have bad days at work, and that shouldn't be the reason someone can't buy groceries.
You might even be able to pay the employees a fair wage and they'll still get tips in US. People have justa adjusted to it, they'll probably always leave something.
As a previous Texan server - bless you.
I apparently got paid 2.15/hr, though they said if we made more than our minimum wage of 7.25/hr in tips, they would not have to pay even that - I never saw a check.
On top of this forcing us to rely on tips for any sort of a living wage, I was forced to calculate a percentage (3 - 5 percent) of my total sales, and TAKE THAT OUT OF MY TIPS and give it to the restaurant where they claimed to pay out to the kitchen and staff. So that means when people like this tip NOTHING and think they are proving something our fighting the system, all you are doing is punishing me and forcing me to PAY to serve you.
The system is broken, but we are just little cogs trying to live and really appreciate when you consider the situation we are put in.
If you include tip on the price, then the tip equivalents is taxed. If you leave cash, there is no tax. The reason why tipping continues is because it is a giant tax avoidance scheme that the whole industry has agreed upon. The very good servers take all the glory and the rest of the staff doesn’t get anything. Fits the american ethos of individual success.
Yes it is. It's also your fault if you do any number of considered-disrespectful-yet-not-technically-illegal cultural mistakes. You have a duty to adapt to the culture of the place you're visiting.
If it's culturally appropriate, yeah. Now if you're talking about corruption, that's not a culturally accepted norm, it's a decried fact everywhere it happens. There's no comparison.
A tip in this context meant bribe. I see tipping as little different from the morals of bribery, and as such, you are never under a moral obligation to pay either.
I mean that's nonsense. A bribe is inherently corrupt, it's trying to get someone in a position of power over you to bend the rules in your favor for personal gain and implicitly disfavor others who are as deserving as you.
A tip (or separating the waiter's wage, in the US) is just what it says on the tin. There's no corruption, there's an exchange of money for service.
You paid the restaurant already for the goods and services. If the restaurant didn't give you the goods and services, or direct an employee to do so effectively, they would be in breach of contract. This is not even at the level of 1L law.
You did not pay the restaurant for all the services, no. You paid for cooking but not for waiting. That's how it is in the US, that's all.
Let me put it this way : it's like not giving your seat to someone in crutches on the bus when not required to do so (and assuming you have no health limitations). It's unethical.
Yeah as we know everyone only works the best jobs that they want and are never forced to work one of the most prevalent jobs on the planet to make ends meet/s .
You came to an establishment where the workers rely on tips that's on you, and if want the convenience of the food without the well known cost of tipping make your own fucking food. You don't have to like tipping culture to not fuck over workers.
The culture has to change. It works everywhere else just fine. Pay a real wage, then we can tip for service rendered (you earn a tip, like it was originally) instead of a mandatory"pay half the workers wage because lobbys won" or you hate the poor poor workers.
No one is praising tipping culture we just aren't ignorant enough to believe you change more than a hundred years of culture by fucking over workers. If you cared about changing culture or workers, you wouldn't eat at those places instead of rewarding the restaurant and screwing the employees. Don't want to follow the culture of the place you are visiting? Stay the fuck home
Boycotting would involve not actually going to the restaraunt which is what I'm suggesting. Are you implying that you are helpless because you can't make your own food so you have to be both an asshole and a hypocrite to restaraunt workers or have you completely lost your train of thought ? Either way it doesn't apply unless you are saying you are training workers by trying to get the same response by giving them nothing which would track with your personality so far but totally proves my point about you being an asshole and a hypocrite.
The restaurant pays that worker a wage, the worker makes $100 a night. If they don’t, the worker makes 2 or 300 a night (depending on the spot). No one benefits from tips more than servers and they will fight the hardest to keep it around. Blame them.
Owners support it as everything looks cheaper than it is. I "sell" a burger for $10 let's say but then there's 7% sales tax + 20% * ($10+$.70) = $12.84. So on the menu everything looks 25 - 30% cheaper than it really is. This must stimulate demand. I actually own a restaurant in Europe. I charge $10 for a burger and that includes tax + serving staff. I would love to charge $8 but actually collect $10, then not pay health & social contributions on the $2.
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u/kazisukisuk Aug 28 '24
Living in Europe I can sympathize this American tipping culture is insane and gets worse all the time.
Put the tip in the price. Pay workers a fair wage. It's not hard.
That said you just have to suck it up when you travel to the US it's not the fault of the poor waitress who is just trynna pay her bills