I 100% agree, but I have a counter point about a separate issue. And I'm probably going to get downvoted, but I'm genuinely curious what the answer would be as a former-red (living in SC majority of my life) who has slowly become a Democrat over the last few years:
So what if that saying is applied to firearms? I think we need stricter gun control, but for example they could say "You cant ban guns, only the legal method of purchase for some" or something to that effect. What is your position on that?
There is much more nuance that has to be considered (though plenty of people do make that argument and then refuse to actually listen to the answers). The main concrete thing is that dems are not even trying to ban guns. Of actually proposed dem policy, the wants are to do things like implement mandatory safety training/tests (like we do for driving), mental health screenings, universal background checks, and elective buy back programs for ARs.
Thank you. Now those are some policies I can get behind. I wouldn't mind seeing assault-type weapons gone, but definitely mental health screening and stricter background checks. Also illegal weapon trading is a big problem.
I disagree that abortion is a natural right, barring some kind of medical issue. While I am pro choice, it's not some natural law that we must adhere to. It's a man-made law just like anything else in civilized society. My dick and balls are natural but I'm not allowed to walk around naked in public. Yet I can modify my body with tattoos and piercings and generally whatever I want to do to it.
My question still wasn't answered, it was just brushed off as "not the same."
There’s nothing we agree on here. Abortion is about bodily autonomy which is self determination. There should be no laws regulating bodily autonomy. Women have been performing abortions for millennia. Probably longer. You cannot stop self determination and bodily autonomy. People will die for these things.
Guns are objects, and like all objects, they can be taken away.
Yes, I would have much preferred you open with that comment instead of dismissing it over and over. You can't get points across if you barely communicate.
Thank you for your position, and I do see where you're coming from.
No it's totally okay, I understand. I am coming from a place of good faith. I tried to be as transparent as possible in my original comment lol. And I apologize if I came off as rude. I've slowly become blue on many things after having been raised nearly far-right. I've had to learn how to be better as I've aged. The division from bad actors and this new "maga" party (or cult imo), is so ass-backwards from the party it used to be. There will always be disagreements in a two party system, but we really don't need to destroy the opposition to have a discussion and find a solution, y'know? We're all Americans at the end of the day. Trump fans are out for blood since day one though, so I get why the Dems are finally pushing back. It's refreshing to see honestly, and I'm very optimistic about the Harris/Walz ticket. They're like the mom and dad America so desperately needs right now.
Thank you though, again I appreciate you taking the time to answer and I learned another perspective on this issue.
Practically speaking, regardless of its a right or not, we may as well all get with the program because sooner or later, we will need to have some amount of abortions
Even if we’ expand the usable space on our planet to dystopian sci-fi geo engineering type levels, at some point we will reach the planets carrying capacity and every person can only have an average of one kid
What’s the point of getting to there faster with children who are less prepared to give more than they take to the human race. If there’s a limited carrying capacity, we should want people to be able to plan exactly when to have kids so that they can have the best chance of not being useless to us all
A gun is an object. It must be passed from person to person. Banning guns limits or eliminates the supply.
Abortion is an activity. Banning it does little. It does in fact reduce the number of abortions. Just like banning drugs reduces drug use. But not by much.
Not really. I pro gun and pro choice. The way I see it, banning doesn't stop anything. It just forces people to do things illegally. How many felons have guns? By the current law, they are not able to obtain ANY guns legally. Making it more illegal wouldn't stop them. Banning abortions causes these back alley abortions and abandoned babies, even in a state where it should be legally impossible to have.
Whether it's de facto or de jure, a ban is a prohibition. What would make more sense is "you cannot get rid of abortions, but you can get rid of safe abortions."
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u/lapoda Aug 27 '24
What's that saying? "You cannot ban abortions. You can only ban safe abortions."