Abandoned babies and back-alley abortions were big issues before Roe. They became less common after the Roe v Wade decision. And now we're right back where we were in the 1960s.
Didn't need a crystal ball to see that one coming, just a history book.
I can at least understand that they are greedy scumbags that only care about enriching themselves, so they want to change the legislation to make it easier to make mountains of cash regardless of consequences.
What I can't understand are the people who make $40k a year and think that those policies are somehow beneficial to them. Unless you are in the top couple percent of earners, nothing they are doing is good for you. It's like they all believe that they are going to hit powerball and then open a business that's gonna make $20 million a year in profits so they better supports this bullshit now so they can enjoy it when their time comes. It just makes no sense to me.
Conservatives don't care about anyone or anything except themselves. Except when other people do a thing that violates their cherry picked verses of their shitty book.
No, youâre getting it all wrong, those âbaby killersâ are definitely the problem.
Oh damn removing that didnât fix it? Guess the problem is the âillegal aliensâ then.
Oh damn removing them didnât fix it? Guess the problem is trans people then.
/s obviously lol, itâs crazy how they just shift blame from one thing to another. Itâs almost like those âbabies being killedâ are fucking embryos with not a single brain cell developed yet. Saying âembryo killerâ doesnât sound as bad tho.
That's just it, though, they don't see this as a problem. This is six more children who, thanks to their shitty systems, will likely grow up poor, un- or under-educated, and perfectly conditioned to fuel their machines in the coming generations.
And back before Roe the churches KNEW IT. There were churches lobbying for legal abortion in the 60s (donât mind that some of it was fueled by eugenics and racismâ it was also because so many women died)
Itâs worse than that. During oral arguments on Dobbs, Barrett specifically brought up âsafe havenâ laws to show that abortion bans wouldnât be a problem. So forcing women to give birth is fine because they can just give their baby to the State.
You know, Texas doesn't have rape or incest clauses in the zero-tollerance abortion ban. In fact, if a women is found to have had one, her rapist can sue her... so unprotected sex is not the only reason abortions occur.
Not to mention, condoms break, birth control fails, morning-after pills don't do their job, etc. It is pretty ignorant of you to assume that unprotected sex is the ONLY reason to have these services.
Also, what about the women that have a fetus that turns into a tumor, goes into sepsis, a fetus that fails in uterine, has preeclampsia, etc.? They should be allowed to live, just because they wanted that baby at one point?
Look, that's just not a good argument. Anti-abortion people think that abortion is a form of murder. When murder is legal, that's a really terrifying problem. A few abandoned infants, even a few more post-natal infanticides are an absolute improvement on the situation if the number of abortions is reduced significantly.
I don't know what to say to that. Yes, people think this way. You think this way about some issues. It is necessary and normal in a civil society to justify - among other things - law by consideration of the lesser evil.
I disagree. Won't an alive abandoned child left to die be much worse than killing a fetus before it can see the light of day. The first option is much much cruel. Not that I care, god has a mysterious plan for dead children i've heard.
I don't think an anti-abortionist thinks that there is much of a difference in "suffering" in those two cases, however, one is (again, from this point of view) murder, the other is not. You can not abort a pregnancy without killing the foetus, and in cases where you can that's not necessarily the intended result; whereas you can abandon children without leaving them to die.
You can abandon a baby without it dying? Here i thought our species was renowned for being so useless we need to be coddled for 9 months. Look, i understand what you are saying but keep in mind your morality justifies abandoning BABIES, the fuck man? Like wtf man?
Yes of course you can. An abandoned baby can be picked up again. A dead baby can't reanimate.
You can not really be so silly as to not grasp that the obvious reply to your challenge is "your mortality justifies murdering BABIES", right? And it's not my mortality, I'm trying to get the circle jerk to stop. It's gross.
And who is picking up the babies? You or me? God? Most of these babies would be dead with the few that survive. People don't just want to pick up other peoples babies in this economy. Why even make this an option for modern society when you can prevent this needless suffering?
Miscarriage is literally also called spontaneous abortion. You sound very uneducated and naive saying that âabortion is murderâ without the simple understanding that miscarriages are not intentional.
People like you are why women often are afraid to seek medical care after a miscarriage. You donât actually care about healthy pregnanciesâŚyou care about controlling people to conform to your beliefs.
More babies will die because of people like you and your lack of understanding nuance within society.
Miscarriage is literally also called spontaneous abortion
That is clearly not what we are talking about. This is called an equivocation and is at best an error in reasoning, and at worst dishonest.
People like you are why women often are afraid to seek medical care after a miscarriage
"People like me" were counter-protesting when the first specialised abortion clinic was opened to protests of the Catholic church and the Christian conservatives.
More babies will die because of people like you and your lack of understanding nuance within society.
To an anti-abortionist, abortion means that a baby dies. Banning abortion then means that far fewer babies will die. This is exactly the issue I'm trying to address.
You don't have to agree with the anti-abortionist position, but you can't argue effectively, and perhaps change minds, if you don't even acknowledge what that position is and why it is actually philosophically quite difficult to completely reject.
Anyone would rather "die" before gaining any knowledge, experience and awareness of literally existing than living a life of misery, knowing that you were abandoned because you are a mistake and your parents didn't want you ect...
Maybe, in some aspects, it's murder to abort. but yall forgot that different deaths have different amount of suffering to them. You can't say that someone who died by torture, burning suicide or anything painful is the same as someone being aborted, or dying from an old age.
There is a clear difference, one should be prevented, the other is natural or makes less unnecessary suffering in the world.
Anyone would rather "die" before gaining any knowledge, experience and awareness of literally existing than living a life of misery, knowing that you were abandoned because you are a mistake and your parents didn't want you ect...
So this is close to an anti-natalist position. Wikipedia has a great quote from Sophocles about it, from over 2400 years ago:
Not to be born is, beyond all estimation, best; but when a man has seen the light of day, this is next best by far, that with utmost speed he should go back from where he came. For when he has seen youth go by, with its easy merry-making, what hard affliction is foreign to him, what suffering does he not know? Envy, factions, strife, battles, and murders. Last of all falls to his lot old age, blamed, weak, unsociable, friendless, wherein dwells every misery among miseries
Everybody suffers. I do not have the right to decide for somebody else that their suffering is such that they ought to be dead instead. I do not have the right to bring that death about.
This isn't even about abortion, just to be clear, which I support within certain limits; I think it is an untenable and dangerous position to hold generally.
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u/Groundbreaking_Cup30 Aug 27 '24
It's almost like we told them that abortion bans would cause more problems...