r/blackgirls • u/vapblack • Sep 02 '12

University sponsors campaign to undermine 'white privilege' in one of the "whitest" cities in the US

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2162793/University-sponsors-campaign-undermine-white-privilege-whitest-cities-U-S.html
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u/BlackSuperSonic Sep 04 '12 edited Oct 23 '12

Consequences of White Privilege in America

Criminal Justice

Economic Disparities

Educational Outcomes

Job Discrimination and Unemployment

Housing Discrimination

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u/BrosephineBaker Sep 04 '12

Kudos on this excellent and thorough reply.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '12

I really have no sympathy at all for criminals - regardless of race. If you break the law, regardless then you get what you get. They aren't throwing innocent people into jails - I'm astonished at the mainstream mentality that gangsters are the good guys - and cops are the bad guys. Let's get off the race issue for a minute, and look at what causes this. It's the music, image, movies.. theatrics that these delinquents emulate and end up losing their freedom without taking responsibility.

Economic Disparities

My general thoughts are that you have 100 million Americans on welfare right now. 1 in 6 families on food stamps, It's hard enough to find gainful employment - let alone any employment in urban areas where the higher percentage of the populations are of African-American descent. I feel that, you might have a harder time going through life - however this is not due to racism, but by outside influences. Say - You go to a highschool in an urban community. Dropout rates for African-Americans are the highest, but you somehow avoid the negative influences, do the homework, get on honor rolls, and graduate. You will not be denied further education just because you're black - but for over-coming the odds you will probably be accepted into a university before a white student based on culture diversity purposes and for breaking the mold. Do I feel you are any less entitled to taking out loans like white students? No - You won't be judged and denied a loan for being black. You work hard with goals - you will succeed. That's why first generation immigrants were so successful.

Education Outcomes

We can agree that blacks are at disadvantaged when it comes to education. I feel they should be given a bigger push and allocated funds in urban cities to better assure the education they're getting is valuable and not meaningless - as you see with the dropout rates now. The teachers union is detrimental and I feel they should be on a competitive salary, if your students fail you should not be teaching. I also feel the home environment plays the biggest influential role in a childs upbringing. If the parents don't care, that will become the mentality of the child. I wouldn't wish to enroll my child in a public school on account of the quality, not because of the other children's color.

Job Discrimination and Unemployment

Another valid topic - I do feel discrimination happens, on all of the spectrum. If you have a perceived black name, you may be overlooked because of it. I however do feel it's the employers right, since it's their company.. however in todays market, you're lucky to even have a job. Unemployment is high yes - For college graduates trying to find work, to everybody. Chemistry plays a big role in the work environment - if the employer feels the potential candidate won't fit in, then why force it? I wouldn't apply to a barber shop that's predominately black, because I know they wouldn't hire me and because I know I wouldn't fit in. Also I can tell right away if I'll hire somebody based on how they dress, or articulate their words. If they cannot speak proper English, and dress non appropriate, why should I hire you?

Housing Discrimination

Internally - I feel that in predominately black areas, they need community organizers and root out all bullshit. Don't accept drug dealers into your neighborhoods, don't tolerate criminal behavior. I can't tell you how many times the city of New York painted - cleaned up areas where unfortunate disadvantaged blacks were housed, and they turned it back into what it was before. I would personally not want to live in an area that is known for higher crime rates - if that's not your mentality, then you shouldn't be living there. If you're poor, you might do crime to make ends meet, however that is never the answer. Hard work is and a determination to better yourself is.

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u/BlackSuperSonic Sep 04 '12

I really have no sympathy at all for criminals - regardless of race. If you break the law, regardless then you get what you get. They aren't throwing innocent people into jails - I'm astonished at the mainstream mentality that gangsters are the good guys - and cops are the bad guys. Let's get off the race issue for a minute, and look at what causes this. It's the music, image, movies.. theatrics that these delinquents emulate and end up losing their freedom without taking responsibility.

I need to deal with this paragraph because this is a serious problem of apathy that is a symptom of white privilege. You don't care for criminals? Fine, but you saying that they get what they get is down right irresponsible and immoral. Why? Because as our current justice system exists, we are penalizing black offenders more harshly that their white peers for the same crimes. And when they return into labor market, our employment policies are making it almost impossible to gain stable employment. We are putting black and Latino kids into the system for things white kids wouldn't, giving them more time and making it harder for them to get their lives together when they leave the correction system. And you need to care about it if you want things to change, and all of it is being caused by racism.

My general thoughts are that you have 100 million Americans on welfare right now. 1 in 6 families on food stamps, It's hard enough to find gainful employment - let alone any employment in urban areas where the higher percentage of the populations are of African-American descent. I feel that, you might have a harder time going through life - however this is not due to racism, but by outside influences. Say - You go to a highschool in an urban community. Dropout rates for African-Americans are the highest, but you somehow avoid the negative influences, do the homework, get on honor rolls, and graduate. You will not be denied further education just because you're black - but for over-coming the odds you will probably be accepted into a university before a white student based on culture diversity purposes and for breaking the mold.

Let's stop at that last sentence. What do you mean accepted into a university before a white student? Before a white student with similar qualifications? With better qualifications? Worse qualifications?

Do I feel you are any less entitled to taking out loans like white students? No - You won't be judged and denied a loan for being black.

Based on data collected, someone may not be denied a loan for being black but will often pay more than a white person in the same position.

Racism in finance? Major banks issue higher interest rates to minorities

And this may extend to other types of loans:

Justice Department Reaches Settlement with Wells Fargo Resulting in More Than $175 Million in Relief for Homeowners to Resolve Fair Lending Claims

Study Shows Blacks, Hispanics Charged Higher Auto Loan Rates

You work hard with goals - you will succeed. That's why first generation immigrants were so successful.

First generation immigrants are also very well educated, and our naturalization laws promote educated migrants coming to the U.S. Are we surprised that educated people made educated children? Comparing black Americans whose ancestors were slaves and under systemic racism isn't a good comparison to today's immigrants.

We can agree that blacks are at disadvantaged when it comes to education. I feel they should be given a bigger push and allocated funds in urban cities to better assure the education they're getting is valuable and not meaningless - as you see with the dropout rates now. The teachers union is detrimental and I feel they should be on a competitive salary, if your students fail you should not be teaching. I also feel the home environment plays the biggest influential role in a childs upbringing. If the parents don't care, that will become the mentality of the child. I wouldn't wish to enroll my child in a public school on account of the quality, not because of the other children's color.

I don't have much to reply to here.

Another valid topic - I do feel discrimination happens, on all of the spectrum. If you have a perceived black name, you may be overlooked because of it. I however do feel it's the employers right, since it's their company..

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 makes it against the law.

Chemistry plays a big role in the work environment - if the employer feels the potential candidate won't fit in, then why force it?

An employer should have agency to choose, just not on skin color.

Also I can tell right away if I'll hire somebody based on how they dress, or articulate their words. If they cannot speak proper English, and dress non appropriate, why should I hire you?

This is another symptom of white privilege. The assumption that just because someone has a certain accent or dress a certain way (which they may not employ while working), that they are unqualified.

Internally - I feel that in predominately black areas, they need community organizers and root out all bullshit. Don't accept drug dealers into your neighborhoods, don't tolerate criminal behavior.

There are community organizers. The problem is the use of violence against people who speak against the presence of the drug trade. And the seeming inability of the police to differential those participating in the trade and innocent civilians.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '12 edited Sep 04 '12

When it comes to the penal system - It's a racket. Private prisons are infact the new slave trade here in America - and they do have a systematic from school to prison pipeline which often times minorities so frequently fall into. Something like 1 in 99 Americans are in prison right now. It's not a joke - I don't believe or think that we should have private prisons, or throw people into jail for petty drug offenses, or first time offenders. If you look at the area - These criminals being locked up aren't average black people, but actual criminals. They resort to a life of crime, gang violence, and such and they become the product of their environment. I'm sure you understand that - when it comes to actual sentencing, they probably do have a quota and I have heard of cases of corruption. It wouldn't surprise me however I am also aware of white individuals in prison - typical college kids who don't look like the kind of people who should be in prison - being locked up. It's the system that I would put the blame on, not institutionalized racism.

I entirely feel that if you're a successful, educated minority - your achievements will be looked upon more special than an average white people because as a minority in a prestigious school - you'll represent the image that schools want. Success in a time where it's hard to find in areas where minorities represent higher populations. I grew up in a majority white school - however there were no shenanigans, and the minorities who also went to school with me, they excelled greatly because there were no gangs in school, no drugs, good neighborhoods, environments.. It's a beautiful thing having somebody being disadvantaged, persevere and can be a role model to those around them.

If a minority couple are denied coverage for a loan by the bank - it is not because they're black, or Hispanic. It is because they have poor credit or unsustainable employment. These are the reasons why - Not to mention that banks give almost anybody a loan because they know the government will bail them out - this is what started the housing collapse in 2008. If you're receiving government aide, with 5 children and working 2 jobs.. you would be considered a risky asset and may be denied a loan, perhaps even to start a business. I've seen this happen with white people too. I would imagine it happens more with black people, as percentage wise they don't make the same financial equivalent as their white counter-parts for various reasons as I've stated previously.

Comparing black Americans whose ancestors were slaves and under systemic racism isn't a good comparison to today's immigrants.

I agree to a certain extent - however since the 1960's, you have the same opportunity as everybody else. Migrants oftentimes come here with nothing and build an empire for themselves - I feel it's a psychological barrier that blacks need to break in order for themselves to look at each other and everyone else as equal, and accept responsibility. Have you ever noticed how Asian parents raise their children - and how this cycle continues, and they generally become successful? When black parents continue placing blame on others, and looking down at themselves as victims, then it won't change. It needs to be an internal change - not external, I'm not telling you how to live your life. If you make bad investment choices whose fault is that? Even before the 1960's - blacks lived in great homogenous societies within America. They were probably more prosperous then, as opposed to now. They all wore suits, had a decent education compared to now.. and these younger generations are growing up with a sense of entitlement, ignorant, and don't appreciate what they have. Why spend 200$ on a pair of sneakers?

"Another valid topic - I do feel discrimination happens, on all of the spectrum. If you have a perceived black name, you may be overlooked because of it. I however do feel it's the employers right, since it's their company.." The Civil Rights Act of 1964 makes it against the law.

Yes it is against the law - You haveto accept the application, however the employer could still over-look it. If somebody who had a black name sent me a resume and application, I would read it and call them into a interview. They would be subjected to a drug test like everybody else, have a criminal backround check, and so on. If you act like you belong there, with the right attitude and it all clears, there is no reason why you wouldn't be hired.

Unfortunately - I do have qualifications. You haveto know simple grammar, people skills, and a right attitude. If you speak a foreign tounge, if I cannot understand you, or if you butcher the English language - I don't feel you should be working in customer service, or dealing with people. If you don't have an appropriate wardrobe, you would need to buy one. This goes for anybody - not just minorities, but whites too, and I've seen whites fired for these reasons. Has nothing to do with accent.

There are community organizers. The problem is the use of violence against people who speak against the presence of the drug trade. And the seeming inability of the police to differential those participating in the trade and innocent civilians.

People like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton aren't in the best interest of Black America. They're getting rich off racism. Real leaders speak out against all violence, and "gangster" music hasto stop. What is this notion of "no snitching" ? It's things like this that make the overall community worse by harboring criminals and lowering the overall value. The drug trade is real - Cocaine is big in white communities - I understand that in the 80's, Crack Cocaine had heavy jail sentences compared to Cocaine, which was more expensive and used by whites while blacks used Crack. It's a system designed that way - If you're poorer and cannot afford an attorney - you should just represent yourself as the public attorney works for the courts and will shuttle you into the jail. What happened where society of color went from wearing suits and having a better vocabulary, to modern day where everybody dresses like slobs and speaks with ignorance? Where will this trend continue to, and what would be your solution? My solution would be simple - Boycot Walmart, make wise investment choices - don't eat, buy from large corporations that take your wealth out of the community , and ship it overseas, and buy from your local black communities. Keep the money in your community, and don't make poor decisions like do drugs, smoke cigarettes, and so on.

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u/BlackSuperSonic Sep 04 '12

I'll first comment that penile doesn't mean what you think it means. The word you're looking for is penal. But I digress.

When it comes to the penile system - It's a racket. Private prisons are infact the new slave trade here in America - and they do have a systematic from school to prison pipeline which often times minorities so frequently fall into. Something like 1 in 99 Americans are in prison right now. It's not a joke - I don't believe or think that we should have private prisons, or throw people into jail for petty drug offenses, or first time offenders. If you look at the area - These criminals being locked up aren't average black people, but actual criminals.

I'll stop here first. Your rhetoric is somewhat dangerous in that it seems to be appeal to a just word fallacy, that people being arrested must being doing something wrong. Not to say that convicted felons don't make up the majority of our prison system, but we are indeed locking average black people that happen to be drug users. Almost 20% of our state prisons have inmates convicted for drug charges 1 and about a quarter of which are being incarcerated for possession charges 2 - see note 23.

If a minority couple are denied coverage for a loan by the bank - it is not because they're black, or Hispanic. It is because they have poor credit or unsustainable employment. These are the reasons why - Not to mention that banks give almost anybody a loan because they know the government will bail them out - this is what started the housing collapse in 2008. If you're receiving government aide, with 5 children and working 2 jobs.. you would be considered a risky asset and may be denied a loan, perhaps even to start a business. I've seen this happen with white people too. I would imagine it happens more with black people, as percentage wise they don't make the same financial equivalent as their white counter-parts for various reasons as I've stated previously.

I'll ask that you reread the source I provided from the Justice Department. To quote the article:

The settlement, which is subject to court approval, was filed today in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia in conjunction with the department’s complaint, which alleges that between 2004 and 2008, Wells Fargo discriminated by steering approximately 4,000 African-American and Hispanic wholesale borrowers, as well as additional retail borrowers, into subprime mortgages when non-Hispanic white borrowers with similar credit profiles received prime loans. All the borrowers who were allegedly discriminated against were qualified for Wells Fargo mortgage loans according to Well Fargo’s own underwriting criteria.

The United States also alleges that, between 2004 and 2009, Wells Fargo discriminated by charging approximately 30,000 African-American and Hispanic wholesale borrowers higher fees and rates than non-Hispanic white borrowers because of their race or national origin rather than the borrowers’ credit worthiness or other objective criteria related to borrower risk.

This same accusation of black and Latin@ homeowners paying high interest rates on their mortgages has also been studied by the Department of Housing and Urban Development back in the 90s before the current housing crisis. They found that black homeowners in upper-income neighborhoods were twice as likely to receive subprime mortgages that homeowners in low-income white neighborhoods.

Here is a more recent source: Subprime Lending, Mortgage Foreclosures and Race

I agree to a certain extent - however since the 1960's, you have the same opportunity as everybody else.

If you honestly think that black people in this country have the same opportunity as everyone else, then I don't think you have gotten the point of all of the sources I have provided you. Black people aren't going to the same schools as everyone else and aren't living in the same neighborhoods as everyone else. If those two things were true, you'd have a point but they aren't, and you are ignoring a heavy burden of housing and school segregation by doing so.

Migrants often times come here with nothing and build an empire for themselves - I feel it's a psychological barrier that blacks need to break in order for themselves to look at each other and everyone else as equal, and accept responsibility. Have you ever noticed how Asian parents raise their children - and how this cycle continues, and they generally become successful?

Yes, I also notice that our immigration laws promote the most educated coming to this country. Not to downplay hard work but again, why are you comparing Asians to black people when the conditions both groups as a whole have never lived under the same conditions or had the same opportunities?

When black parents continue placing blame on others, and looking down at themselves as victims, then it won't change. It needs to be an internal change - not external, I'm not telling you how to live your life. If you make bad investment choices whose fault is that? Even before the 1960's - blacks lived in great homogenous societies within America. They were probably more prosperous then, as opposed to now. They all wore suits, had a decent education compared to now.. and these younger generations are growing up with a sense of entitlement, ignorant, and don't appreciate what they have. Why spend 200$ on a pair of sneakers?

This seems like a big fat romanticization of segregation. Even given some depressing numbers, black people as a group have never been more educated than they are today. So let me be clear, there is plenty of blame to go around and your comments sound eerily close to prentending that racism is invisible and that people are making up barriers to their success. Still, parents still need to place an emphasis on excellence. And blaming people for buying into a culture of consumerism doesn't somehow explain institutional barriers to accumulating wealth (buying assets like houses, job discrimination, access to higher education, etc.). All that is happening is that black people are being punished more severely for being more misinformed than white people, but that's not anything new.

Yes it is against the law - You haveto accept the application, however the employer could still over-look it. If somebody who had a black name sent me a resume and application, I would read it and call them into a interview. They would be subjected to a drug test like everybody else, have a criminal backround check, and so on. If you act like you belong there, with the right attitude and it all clears, there is no reason why you wouldn't be hired.

Unfortunately - I do have qualifications. You haveto know simple grammar, people skills, and a right attitude. If you speak a foreign tounge, if I cannot understand you, or if you butcher the English language - I don't feel you should be working in customer service, or dealing with people. If you don't have an appropriate wardrobe, you would need to buy one. This goes for anybody - not just minorities, but whites too, and I've seen whites fired for these reasons. Has nothing to do with accent.

Despite your opinion, there are documented instances of accent discrimination. 3 4

People like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton aren't in the best interest of Black America. They're getting rich off racism. Real leaders speak out against all violence, and "gangster" music hasto stop.

Say what you will about them, but they do speak on violence, and both have been vocal critiques of hip hop. 5 While both haven't been controversy free, I don't really think it's your place as a white person to really be commenting on their benefit to Black America as activists.

What is this notion of "no snitching" ? It's things like this that make the overall community worse by harboring criminals and lowering the overall value.

The 'no snitching' phenomenon came about from drug dealers threatening civilians tipping the police of their actions with violence. I don't think people are consciousless harboring criminals as an acceptance of their behavior but at the risk of bodily harm. And police have proven themselves to be often unable to protect those who cooperate with them. Skipping ahead a bit...

What happened where society of color went from wearing suits and having a better vocabulary, to modern day where everybody dresses like slobs and speaks with ignorance?

Again, this is a romanticization of a time period I'm not completely sure you are all that knowledgable of. I don't have much else on what you said after this, but that what you're suggesting is much harder said than done.

-5

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '12

I corrected myself around a hour before you made that post. Penal - Penile, theirs a correlation there.

I would agree about the drug offenses - However they shouldn't be doing drugs to begin with, I understand that they break the laws, but drugs are drugs. Like playing a game of risk - sooner or later it's going to catch up. That doesn't mean I disagree about the punishments - I feel they should be re-habituated in a drug rehab program, or just probation. Doing hard labor for a joint and costing tax payers upwards of half a million is ludacris.

When it comes to taking out loans - Okay. It's not something I ever think about or care for, if you want to protest against Wells Fargo more power to you.

You tell me black people aren't living in white neighborhoods - but yet I know atleast 5 black houses in the suburb I'm living in. I hold firm that they have equal opportunity, it's against the law otherwise. All ethnicity's do and there is a sub-conscious mental block that's been instilled by victim mentality, you were born like everyone else with the same opportunity it's up to you how you'll utilize it. You won't get far by asking for handouts though. If Wells Fargo breaks the law, SUE THEM. If somebody treats you unequal or breaks the law, SUE THEM. What is the average white person suppose to say? "yeah, here. take half my income, my home, and my girlfriend" ? Really ?

For every statistic you give me, I could 9 times out of 10 find a counter one on the internet. I'm not impressed by it, shit happens to blacks and whites. By sounding like Malcolm X - asserting this view that modern black people in the 21st century are lesser than whites - this is just absurd. I've never seen it with my own eyes - I can read about it, but that's not what I grew up with. Not every single urban area will be like a suburban area. Things are the way they are for reasons - It would be nice if everybody lived in peace and harmony, and the urban areas were just as prosperous and nice as the other areas.. but that's unlikely to happen.

This seems like a big fat romanticization of segregation. Even given some depressing numbers, black people as a group have never been more educated than they are today. So let me be clear, there is plenty of blame to go around and your comments sound eerily close to prentending that racism is invisible and that people are making up barriers to their success. Still, parents still need to place an emphasis on excellence. And blaming people for buying into a culture of consumerism doesn't somehow explain institutional barriers to accumulating wealth (buying assets like houses, job discrimination, access to higher education, etc.). All that is happening is that black people are being punished more severely for being more misinformed than white people, but that's not anything new.

Doesn't self-segregation already take place? It doesn't haveto be institutionalized. For instance I enjoy speaking with culturally diverse people, being that I'm white it is interesting to hear what their views are. However that doesn't mean they're completely true, it's nice hearing a different perspective.

Say what you will about them, but they do speak on violence, and both have been vocal critiques of hip hop. 5 While both haven't been controversy free, I don't really think it's your place as a white person to really be commenting on their benefit to Black America as activists.

They aren't activists, they're snakes who say one thing and do another. Never critical about the real problems, but placing blame on everybody else. That's why poverty is increasing, mentality and moral fabric diminishing. One real black leader is pastor James David Manning who is probably the best role model I can think of. (Equality - Doesn't matter if I'm white, I can still have views and opinions.)

You haven't answered about why black society has eroded so much since then. All the way up to the civil rights era, everybody dressed and acted classy, after it... whole different attitudes emerged. Mass poverty now compared to before - I feel it's impart because of the countries economical situation and big corporations getting bigger. I myself would rather bring black communities up to the same standard as whites, instead of black communities bringing the white ones to a lower standard. Would you prefer to see the betterment of all - or just for blacks?

8

u/BlackSuperSonic Sep 05 '12

You tell me black people aren't living in white neighborhoods - but yet I know at least 5 black houses in the suburb I'm living in.

I'll stop here first. Yes, there may be black people living in your suburb. But +5 black households compared to how many thousand people? I'll again ask you to read some of the links I have given you. It remains that the average black person that lives in a metropolitan area in this country lives in a neighborhood that is 41% black but the average white person lives in a neighborhood that is 75% white. Black people and white people more often than not are not living in the same neighborhoods in many of this nation's cities.

I hold firm that they have equal opportunity, it's against the law otherwise. All ethnicity's do and there is a sub-conscious mental block that's been instilled by victim mentality, you were born like everyone else with the same opportunity it's up to you how you'll utilize it. You won't get far by asking for handouts though.

Again this is a just world fallacy that I have pointed out to you. The well it's against the law so it must not be happening thinking that I've put a decent effort in citing sources why this isn't true. You say there is equal opportunity, I say there isn't. And if by handouts, you mean access to a quality education, then I'll agree that I am asking for handouts.

What is the average white person suppose to say? "yeah, here. take half my income, my home, and my girlfriend" ? Really ?

What exactly are you getting at here? What are you trying to say?

For every statistic you give me, I could 9 times out of 10 find a counter one on the internet. I'm not impressed by it, shit happens to blacks and whites. By sounding like Malcolm X - asserting this view that modern black people in the 21st century are lesser than whites - this is just absurd.

Then by all means, find them and show them to me. I've put effort that everything I have said in this conversation I have been able to point at a source to back up my claim. If you want to question the information in my sources, feel free but you haven't thus far. And you also haven't answered my question to you, what privileges do I get from society for being black?

I'm not being rhetorical so I don't understand your objection. You asked me to show you the data behind my assertion that white people in this country have privilege that black people and other ethnic minorities don't and I gave it to you. Don't believe me? Ask the women in this subreddit. Go to some other popular black, Latin@ or Asian subreddits and ask them if they think white privilege exists. You might be surprised.

I've never seen it with my own eyes - I can read about it, but that's not what I grew up with. Not every single urban area will be like a suburban area. Things are the way they are for reasons - It would be nice if everybody lived in peace and harmony, and the urban areas were just as prosperous and nice as the other areas.. but that's unlikely to happen.

You just said it. You haven't seen it. But I'm putting data in front of you and you're dismissing it because you haven't seen it. Do you not see the logical leap you are making?

Doesn't self-segregation already take place? It doesn't haveto be institutionalized.

I'm not completely sure what your point is here but voluntary segregation where people have the agency to choose where they live, compared to housing segregation where people are restricted by illegal finance practices are not the same thing.

They aren't activists, they're snakes who say one thing and do another. Never critical about the real problems, but placing blame on everybody else. That's why poverty is increasing, mentality and moral fabric diminishing. One real black leader is pastor James David Manning who is probably the best role model I can think of. (Equality - Doesn't matter if I'm white, I can still have views and opinions.)

You have the right to express your opinion, but that doesn't mean I have to treat it as valid. As far as I am concerned, Pastor Manning is a demagogue that people who hate President Obama and civil rights leaders prop up that I don't take seriously.

You haven't answered about why black society has eroded so much since then. All the way up to the civil rights era, everybody dressed and acted classy, after it... whole different attitudes emerged. Mass poverty now compared to before - I feel it's impart because of the countries economical situation and big corporations getting bigger.

First you never asked me that, and to be honest I'm not all that interested in answering. And I will ask you one last time to stop romaticizing legal segregation. The era you are talking about had +50% poverty rates in black communities. There have never been lower rate than there were about 10 years ago.

I myself would rather bring black communities up to the same standard as whites, instead of black communities bringing the white ones to a lower standard. Would you prefer to see the betterment of all - or just for blacks?

That is something we can both agree upon. The question is how, and for that question we probably have different answers. I am for policies that benefit everyone, but that doesn't and shouldn't mean that they benefit everyone equally.

-6

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '12

I'll stop here first. Yes, there may be black people living in your suburb. But +5 black households compared to how many thousand people? I'll again ask you to read some of the links I have given you. It remains that the average black person that lives in a metropolitan area in this country lives in a neighborhood that is 41% black but the average white person lives in a neighborhood that is 75% white. Black people and white people more often than not are not living in the same neighborhoods in many of this nation's cities.

Well - I went to school with far more. I was more speaking about the neighborhood, in which 5 houses are compared to the, say 20 that I'm aware of. Blacks make up 14% of the population - Are you saying that for every 20 whites, there should be 20 blacks in suburban houses - even though that would exceed everyone else's portion?

Again this is a just world fallacy that I have pointed out to you. The well it's against the law so it must not be happening thinking that I've put a decent effort in citing sources why this isn't true. You say there is equal opportunity, I say there isn't. And if by handouts, you mean access to a quality education, then I'll agree that I am asking for handouts.

It's a victim mentality that blocks you from thinking otherwise. You cannot cognitively look at life from the perspective as a white person, because you're hard-wired this way based on your environment and past history. I do feel everybody should be entitled to quality education - It should start at home. If a single teenage mother has a child, she probably isn't educated enough to raise the child properly - it takes a community. If that community is full of crooks, ignorance, and such.. that child's future is in jeopardy to become another statistic.

What is the average white person suppose to say? "yeah, here. take half my income, my home, and my girlfriend" ? Really ? "What exactly are you getting at here? What are you trying to say?"

I'm saying that I won't yield what I have for anybody. I earned it and don't feel that giving it up because another person doesn't have that, would be be pretty stupid. For example - you have a white person that worked hard all his life to build to what he has - are you saying that a black person who say, didn't work as hard, should be given a bigger break and give them all of what I have for free even though they're undeserving and didn't work hard the way I did - on the sake of equality?

I'd prefer to revert to the real world on what I see everyday - as opposed to statistics that are just words. I could provide copious amounts of factual data which would suggest things - however I wouldn't want to be looked upon as a racist in doing so since I'm not.

I lived in both easy and hard areas - in the hard areas, the black and white kids got along great and I didn't see any of this "racism" - in the easy areas - they still got along great, you are suppose to be a minority because you are a minority ! What will you say by 2050 when Hispanics are the majority population in America ? What then?

If you get free- housing, I don't care where you live. You're getting it for free - as far as I'm concerned, it's my tax dollars that are paying for your lack of success. Theirs agencies set up to find people jobs - I'm not sure why minorities don't utilize them. Also blacks aren't the only ones in public housing - I've known of whites who were, and inside the apartment was pretty decent. When you go to an ATM at night, and looking over your shoulder. Are you more afraid of cops, or criminal gangtas ?

Pastor Manning is a great man who speaks how it actually is - MLK was also a great man who spoke how things are. Jesse Jackson, Al, they are not. If anything they cause more racism - Ask any white person what they think of those two. They don't unite - but separate.

Just because we had segregation then - doesn't mean it's what I'm referring to. I'm saying, how come the trends of modern day have dwindled down to such new lows - that everybody dresses and acts trashy? Media influence? Home influence? What is it ?? Looking at the pictures - They looked pretty healthy, successful, with gainful employment. Now you see the communities obese, unemployed, lazy and ignorant.

I just went to get new glasses yesterday. There were 5 employees - 2 of them were black. When a black customer came in, they gave them more attention - they familiarized and because they were black, acted more easy going to them. Making up only 14% of the population - how much representation should they have? Should every predominately white business, hire half of them minorities just cause? - don't think anything of it, but it made me wonder.

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u/BlackSuperSonic Sep 05 '12

I'll ask you one more time to tell me what I get from society for being a black person. I'll be happy to give you a response to the rest of what you've said.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '12

I'll break it down and give examples - Firstly of things as a white person - I'd want that blacks have.

  • All white scholarships
  • A white NAACP
  • All white colleges
  • Our own TV network
  • Fair representation in music and entertainment and tv
  • Our own language (ebonics) (whiteonics?)

to name a few. Also advantages to being black - You have less risk of skin cancer, you have affirmative action, age slower with less wrinkles, more evolved athletically, you can use the n word and other various benefits, being good vocally, good at sports, never having to tan, a brotherly common connection. Nice wooly hair. These are all benefits that people of color look past.

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u/BlackSuperSonic Sep 05 '12

Well - I went to school with far more. I was more speaking about the neighborhood, in which 5 houses are compared to the, say 20 that I'm aware of. Blacks make up 14% of the population - Are you saying that for every 20 whites, there should be 20 blacks in suburban houses - even though that would exceed everyone else's portion?

No, I neither said nor implied that. I said that on average black and white people live in different neighborhoods and you supplied your anecdotal evidence. While your situation may be true, it isn't the norm.

It's a victim mentality that blocks you from thinking otherwise. You cannot cognitively look at life from the perspective as a white person, because you're hard-wired this way based on your environment and past history.

I have shown you all the sources for what I have said. We aren't going to agree so let's move on.

I'm saying that I won't yield what I have for anybody. I earned it and don't feel that giving it up because another person doesn't have that, would be be pretty stupid. For example - you have a white person that worked hard all his life to build to what he has - are you saying that a black person who say, didn't work as hard, should be given a bigger break and give them all of what I have for free even though they're undeserving and didn't work hard the way I did - on the sake of equality?

This is a straw man that in order to achieve equality that we must take from one group and give it to the other as if success is a zero-sum game. I won't say anymore about this.

I'd prefer to revert to the real world on what I see everyday - as opposed to statistics that are just words. I could provide copious amounts of factual data which would suggest things - however I wouldn't want to be looked upon as a racist in doing so since I'm not.

I've demonstrated that a lot of what you see is not the norm. And this idea that if you gave information you would be called racist is a cop-out. What conclusions you come to based on the information you find is the key.

I lived in both easy and hard areas - in the hard areas, the black and white kids got along great and I didn't see any of this "racism" - in the easy areas - they still got along great, you are suppose to be a minority because you are a minority ! What will you say by 2050 when Hispanics are the majority population in America ? What then?

I don't know what you're saying here. Please explain.

If you get free- housing, I don't care where you live. You're getting it for free - as far as I'm concerned, it's my tax dollars that are paying for your lack of success. Theirs agencies set up to find people jobs - I'm not sure why minorities don't utilize them. Also blacks aren't the only ones in public housing - I've known of whites who were, and inside the apartment was pretty decent. When you go to an ATM at night, and looking over your shoulder. Are you more afraid of cops, or criminal gangtas ?

First, unless you are in prison, a shelter or a nursing home, you pay something for where you live. I don't know where you get this idea of free housing from, because public housing is funded based on income. Second, you assume that minorities aren't using job training programs when they have been predominately used by minorities since they were created.

I don't understand the point of your last question

Just because we had segregation then - doesn't mean it's what I'm referring to. I'm saying, how come the trends of modern day have dwindled down to such new lows - that everybody dresses and acts trashy? Media influence? Home influence? What is it ?? Looking at the pictures - They looked pretty healthy, successful, with gainful employment. Now you see the communities obese, unemployed, lazy and ignorant.

Your conformation bias is showing. You're saying what they looked like. I've told you that black people today have never been more wealthy nor more educated. Unemployment is higher today than it was decades ago, and well as obesity.

The more I read your responses the more I am getting a sense that you actually aren't listening or reading the sources I've linked. You seem to be comfortable with your opinions so I think I'll end this back and forth here.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '12

I do not know where you get your patience, but that was impressive. Wow.

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