r/behindthebastards 15d ago

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1.1k Upvotes

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921

u/kratorade Knife Missle Technician 15d ago

You're gonna see this buried.

He's not following the script we have for events like this. He's supposed to have a bunch of unhinged weird beliefs in a long rambling manifesto that we can all gawk at.

This... ain't that.

247

u/SawaJean 15d ago

Agreed about him not following the script. This is pretty straightforward and easy to understand.

Seeing various platforms work so hard to suppress it really is eye-opening.

230

u/zbracisz 15d ago

It's hard to overstate how ideologically poisonous this is to the media. It's a huge story and pulls a lot of views, but if you actually READ the message, it's lucidly advocating for the murder of unaccountable rich scumbags by pointing out the systemic harm they do to huge swaths of the society. Do the Murdochs, say, want to signal boost an open call that they be killed? You could try to narrow the focus to heath care per se, but anyone's mind will jump the tracks in a minute or two and get the broader implications.

11

u/SpoofedFinger 15d ago

I think you're right about the Murdochs but a lot of the liberal media was just fine with boosting Trump's message and he calls them the enemy of the people and fantasizes about violence done to them.

-4

u/TheWiz4rdsTower 15d ago

Nice false equivalency you've got there. Be a shame if someone set fire to it...

7

u/SpoofedFinger 15d ago

I don't understand what the false equivalency is here. I was pointing out that media doesn't seem to have scruples if it's a message that their audience is interested in. Murdoch had Fox run all those segments about voting machine conspiracy theories and was even anxious about the legal liability of them in those texts and emails that were released. He had them push on because they were losing market share to Fox's even nuttier competitors like Newsmaxx. Corporate liberal media continues to boost Trump's signal, giving him billions in free airtime in 2016, 2020, and 2024. They even sane wash his word salad because their viewers want the story to make sense.

90

u/Useful_Hovercraft169 15d ago

The guy is smart and speaks clearly (unlike Jordy P)

299

u/Dropship_Diplomat 15d ago edited 14d ago

Already seeing that on reddit. The top comment on another post was deleted/removed and only the replies describing what it was before it was nuked led me to Klippenstein's page.

Edit: reddit mods used automation to find and delete this post for "promoting violence". As always, u/spez should choke on a bag of dicks. Wonder when reddit's next investor conference is.

199

u/ConcordGrape73 15d ago

Ken klippenstien is the last bastion of good reporting in America. Protect that dude

114

u/justsikko 15d ago

And dude has been doing it for the last decade. Ken is what green Greenwald pretends to be.

18

u/GiuliaAquaTofana 15d ago

Greenwald left the reservation a long time ago.

3

u/Skooby1Kanobi 15d ago

The phrase "left the reservation" has some horrible connotations to it and it is also offensive to the people this phrase originates from. If you are on this sub I suspect you are the type that doesn't use racial disparagements knowingly. Sadly this phrase has slupped under the radar for many of us. It's similar to "gipped" in that regard. In my area we all used it. I was probably mid to late 20s before I learned it was short for gypsy.

0

u/GiuliaAquaTofana 14d ago

I disagree with you. Leaving the reservation means you are leaving your community behind.

Being put on a reservation is fucking horrible in the first place. Just like the phrase "Indian giver" etymology is about a white person stealing from indigenous peoples, not the other way around. Only assholes say they're going to give you something, then try to take it back.

1

u/Skooby1Kanobi 14d ago edited 14d ago

History disagrees with you. Throwing out your opinion on something you are uninformed about is how we have Trump. You could have googled it and double checked your feel good opinion but you didn't. You just confidently spouted misinformation. And confidence actually convinces other people. So you have just added to the problem.

link

Edit for your made up definition of "indian giver". Google before you post your thoughts. Don't spread your ignorance to others.

link2

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u/walkingkary 15d ago

Facebook is deleting it.

38

u/macci_a_vellian 15d ago

I wouldn't be surprised if they have an automatic policy of deleting the manifestos of shooters.

36

u/hellolovely1 15d ago

But not the n word!

11

u/mexicodoug 15d ago

There are a few limits to what you can censor if you crave an invite to Mar-A-Lago.

121

u/moonstrous 15d ago edited 15d ago

Saw another comment with his full "manifesto" here:

https://pepmangione.com/manifesto/

That URL is the username Mangione used on several social media sites. It's remarkably cogent.

Actions, no matter how shocking, seem necessary to awaken a population lulled into accepting this desolation as normal. My manifesto is a desperate attempt to shake the foundations of a world that has allowed itself to be governed by heartless spreadsheets and corporate-led moral arithmetic. When I act, I do so in the name of humanity, not spite.

He's explicitly not excusing acts of violence, but framing them as a kind of inevitable Thermidorian reaction to for-profit models of healthcare services. I don't know what to make of all this.

Look beyond the sensationalism that will inevitably surround my actions—spun by media outlets that rely on shock value. Penetrate the veil and see the underlying disease. Question every assumption about why a pill costs hundreds of dollars, why a specialist is out of reach, or why an insurance claim can be denied with impunity. Challenge every premise that leads to the commodification of health. 

I can't say whether this site is genuine (if it's a fake, it was certainly thrown together fast). In the interest of scrutiny, the Wayback Machine has only ever scraped the page today. Not sure if that means this was a ready-to-publish hoax, or if the site was just never indexed because there was no reason for significant traffic before.

51

u/OisforOwesome 15d ago

I don't know. The language doesn't feel like the same guy who wrote the Klippenstein text. I mean, the post isn't incorrect about its indictment of American healthcare, i just want to see verification before I attribute it to him.

39

u/moonstrous 15d ago edited 15d ago

Agreed, that's why I was skeptical as well. If you intend to share this with anyone, definitely include a disclaimer.

However, I believe the Klippenstein text (the body of the OP post here) was transcribed from a handwritten, maybe hastily written page in the notebook that was in Mangione's bag.

IMHO, this does read like the difference between scrawling something off the cuff on paper, versus cracking open a word processor with all the time to structure and edit an essay.

There are enough similarities that it feels reasonably credible. I'm in trust-but-verify mode, here.

19

u/octopush123 15d ago

I still think the first "fake" manifesto felt very real. With his skillset I imagine he could launch these things quickly, and/or schedule them in advance.

31

u/OisforOwesome 15d ago

Deadman switch to hit publish if he doesn't send a code every 24 hours kinda thing I guess isn't too implausible, but until he takes responsibility for it or there is independent verification I'm withholding judgement.

30

u/octopush123 15d ago

Oh, for sure. I'd rather we called it "unverified" than fake.

At the very least, it was authentic to whoever actually wrote it - not a creative writing piece or ChatGPT. It was gutwrenching, and so well written.

41

u/bookdrops 15d ago

The WHOIS data for that URL show it as created on Namecheap yesterday at 19:41:02 UTC. If it was an official website from Mangione, it was almost certainly published by an associated person or by some kind of automatic website creation tool he set up. 

20

u/DefunctFunctor 15d ago

Yeah this should be the first thing you look up for these kinds of instances. Domain wasn't registered until he was already found out, so there's a reasonable chance it's not him

8

u/The_Nice_Marmot 15d ago

It’s absolutely inevitable. Murder by corporation is fully legal. Those saying that “this is not the way” have yet to suggest what the correct way is, if that’s the case. When murder by corporation is government sanctioned, legal and lauded by stockholders, this absolutely is inevitable. History shows us that clearly.

1

u/fourofkeys 15d ago

i wonder if that's what the youtube video that was taken down was talking about, the text.

1

u/Lost_Scene_9957 15d ago

How did you find this one? I don't know the site he's on, but it does seem like it is him. I couldn't find the manifesto but the link works.

20

u/zbracisz 15d ago

they'll suppress it as long as they can, which isn't long, but the clock is already ticking on the wave of copycats.

247

u/zbracisz 15d ago

This is what happens if you make peaceful reform impossible.

71

u/BizzarduousTask 15d ago

Something something tree of liberty…something…blood of tyrants…

6

u/SpoofedFinger 15d ago

I mean, I'd probably reach for "a riot is the language of the unheard" instead.

1

u/jdcodring 15d ago

Both work.

1

u/SpoofedFinger 15d ago

I guess. Jefferson was a member of the hypocrite ruling class of his day so it seems inappropriate to use him as inspiration for going after his spiritual successors.

1

u/jdcodring 14d ago

Oh I don’t disagree that Jefferson was a piece of shit slave master. But even a broken clock is right twice a day. Shitty people can make good points.

310

u/zbracisz 15d ago

"Frankly, these parasites simply had it coming." Note the plural. He already knows there will be imitators. That was part of the point. The fact he did it, lived, got his words out, and will have a huge public platform at trial, pretty much guarantee there will be more.

90

u/carlitospig 15d ago

You could also read it like the c suite of United in general, as in the turmoil and bad press that his actions caused.

24

u/Apprehensive-Log8333 15d ago

I don't think it will have many imitators. The billionaires will lock down, meet by zoom, travel with a ring of bodyguards, not ever be in public without body armor, etc.

20

u/Combatical 15d ago

At least some of that money will "trickle down" through the body guards right??

20

u/BookMonkeyDude 15d ago

Thompson wasn't a billionaire. For every billionaire there are dozens of dead-eyed millionaire toadies doing their bidding without whom they could not accomplish anything.

4

u/ghostlyghostpirates 15d ago

Ironically Thompson was a wage slave too.

7

u/HalcyonPaladin 15d ago

I know a few people who work in exec security details and they’ve got a ton of calls already, but straight up says that most of their work is going to be smoke and mirrors to throw off prepared parties.

They also indicated that it’ll likely fall off after a year when they realize how expensive c-suite protection services actually are.

6

u/SpoofedFinger 15d ago

I dunno, they seem to have quite a hubris problem as a group. They'll run scared in the short term but they seem to reject the notion that there should be any restrictions placed on them in any regard.

0

u/12345678_nein 15d ago edited 15d ago

What about those close to them? Obviously you target not only the execs, but make them feel like not even their families or homes are safe. You don't have to put a physical bullet in the back of someone's head to enact change. Not every exec will have enough pull to have bodyguards 24/7 - not even the president elect with the secret service surrounding him could keep a shot from grazing his ear. Whether you believe that was a hoax or not, it was enough to muddy the waters in people's belief in absolute security at any level for anybody. Eventually the other shoe would drop and change in policy would be the only solution out.

It's a shame Mangione let himself get caught so early. If he was wiser, he could have done some real terror like Kaczynski did. With his bright mind, he may have actually gotten the ball rolling on policy change through violence. If he is expecting to inspire some copycat to pick up the mantle, he is sadly naive. People who have the resources, who are motivated enough to do what he did; revolutionaries; they don't come along very often. By allowing himself to be caught, he has already given up the fight.

I hope this is some elaborate scheme, where the the real gunman is still out there, off to shoot the next CEO. And Mangione is just the fall guy - hoping his lawyer can get him off, but willing to sit the rest of his life in prison for the cause. This isn't Hollywood, so I have serious doubts. Chances are he already played his hand and that one bullet was all he had. Smhuck.

3

u/Vast-Summer-8614 15d ago

good god, unless you're auditioning for your community theater to play Robespierre this is some pretty unhinged shit. Revolutions are not won through terror. Successful revolutions are rare as it goes and not a single one of them was started by acts of isolated terror against the oppressing class. That's just what intelligenzia lunatics like you like to tell each other over their lattes, because it elevates your feelings from helpless to noble.

If this guy had continued, hid from the cops, shot five more CEOs -then what? Global capitalism falls, the Glorious Revolution comes? Unhinged nonsense.

2

u/12345678_nein 15d ago

I see you have never known true hopelessness in life. I have, as have many people in my life, as probably many people probably walking beside you on the street everyday. Ever heard of going postal? Sure you have! It's an American tradition. When you find yourself at the end of rope, at your wits end, you decide you can't take any more of this rotten world - but you also want to take some other people out with you that you blame. What is it in what I have written above that is so unlike that national sport?

People in this country are fed up all the time, with what they feel is less and less to look forward to. At least in the lean times, during other great economic downturns, people at least felt like their country had their back, they could rely on (trust in) big institutional establishments like police/doctors/scientists, and for the most part, feel safe in their communities. Now you can't even feel safe sending your kids to school without getting a goodbye text mid-day in the afternoon as your kid gets gun-downed by enemies from within and without. So idk. 

I know I'm not about to go out and do what this kid did. Most people aren't. There is a reason most Americans are kept fat, complacent - and weed is being legalized pronto. Newsflash! It's not because big brother is worried about filling the tax coffiers. The slower, dumber, and more complacent the American people... the less likely they will rise up. We will see more Mangiones and Bushnells. Lone losers who had nothing else to lose, ao they took their shot at what they hoped would be a message. As far as organized, violent rebellions? Sorry if I misled you. I could only dream my fellow compatriots could be counted on in our nations time of need. 

Now I know I'm on a list. Damn.

204

u/TubularLeftist 15d ago

Honestly I don’t need to read his manifesto, actions speak louder than words, and his actions broadcasted a pretty straightforward message

“ENOUGH IS ENOUGH”

48

u/LogicBalm 15d ago

Agreed. The day we heard the news, not a single person was asking why this man was targeted. We knew why.

4

u/Deep-Friendship3181 15d ago

Agreed. Too many motherfucking snakes on this motherfucking plane.

1

u/TubularLeftist 15d ago

It’s whacking season

60

u/Dogtimeletsgooo 15d ago

For so long the working class has had to endure systemic and state violence with its head down, and we're told this is just business as usual. If you struggle, that's just a stroke of bad luck or some fault on your part- not literally how the system was designed. Anyone pointing out that the system feeds on human suffering and exploitation is labeled some kind of goofy communist or free loader, and disregarded. Folks just kept pushing because they still had some belief that they could work hard enough to earn the American dream or whatever, but reality is creeping in. No matter how hard we work, we are never safe. No matter how much you save or earn or don't spend, it's never enough- and we're told it's always our fault. But we know better, I think people are just finally feeling able to admit it to each other. We're all getting fucked over and no amount of asking politely or voting for Healthcare reform or any of that has fixed the root of the problem

45

u/Relax007 15d ago edited 15d ago

One of the things I keep thinking about is how the shooter's family was what most people would call "rich". Not "billionaire living on an entirely different planet" rich, but they had some money and influence.

Our failing profit driven systems (healthcare, the prison industrial complex, etc) were never intended to hurt people like them, but corporate America is getting so greedy that regular rich people can't entirely purchase their way out of the more unsavory aspects of capitalism (while the justice system is still stacked in their favor, loads of mommy's special boys in the alt right have some sort of criminal record that I think contributed to their outrage and employment issues in ways they previously thought people like them are exempt from). So, it's a much bigger shock to the system to them when these systems finally start impacting them.

Historically, they were its biggest cheerleaders and "proof" that it worked. You'll likely never meet Elon Musk, but these guys are on a level that you may see them at local events. They're the success story fairy tale people point to in their community and say, "Look at them. They made it and you can too."

When the system finally starts harming them and becomes intolerable to everyone except the elite of the elite, well, things are going to get real interesting.

3

u/12345678_nein 15d ago edited 15d ago

Of course. The mooks congregating on every rundown, street corner were never given the education (by design) to put into words or frame into historical context the ways in which they are being fucked on a daily and systemic basis. When they get fed up with life's bullshit, they lash out in indigenet, rightous anger, but unable to articulate how they are feeling in words their many grievances, they just start repeating the same phrases, over and over. Their disposition can often go from 0 to 100 in a matter of seconds, because there really isn't much pinging around in their brains besides whatever they are doing in the moment. They were never taught (again, intentionally, by design) to busy their thoughts on grander things like Why's? How's? Gee, I wonder. Because that is irrelevant to the daily task at hand: getting money/food/shinynewdistaction. 

The people at the bottom are the ones you never have to worry about. They stay in line, because they keep each other in line. If one happens to rise above it's station to the next social strata, that is all well and good. They are, however, still easily kept in line by either skeletons from their past or by the fear of being kicked back to where they (think) belong.

Which leads me to where I am agreeing with you and said all this to help bolster your point. The upper middle class. The middle class. They are a few generators reserved from living paycheck-to-paycheck. They may have some young relatives who still start out that way, but not one in their family lives in a trailer park, or is on government assistance or has even the fear of CPS being called on them. Like you said. This class of people know how to think. They know how to function. Go high up enough along the food chain, their children go to finishing schools and spend their summers at summer camps whose tuition cost the down-payment of a small house. This is where Mangione came from. He's smart, motivated - and YOUNG. What happens when you take a young, handsome, intelligent man with everything to live for, pull the rug out from underneath him - and then point blame at some villainous CEO? That, my friends, is how you create a radical. 

I wish Mangione hadn't allowed himself to be caught. He could have got more of them. He basically just lit himself on fire like Bushnell. Did Bushnell stop the war in Israel? No. Did I remember his name without first stopping and googling it first? Also, no. And we all know the saying: don't set yourself on fire to keep other people warm: cause in Mangione's case, a life sentence is forever, and ain't no one picking up that torch once they put an extinguisher to his corpse.

44

u/secretviollett 15d ago

Thinking Rosenthal is referring to the book An American sickness and Moore would be Michael Moores Sicko? Anyone else figure out the references?

25

u/ZarquonsFlatTire 15d ago

He probably isn't referring to his favorite James Bond, but he might really like Roger Moore.

I would have thought he was Lazenby fellow.

9

u/octopush123 15d ago

I assumed Michael Moore too

10

u/WhyBuyMe 15d ago

I'm pretty sure he was referring to the 1999 album "So Real" by Mandy Moore.

Isn't that the one where she goes on a tirade against the unjust oligarchs that run society and calls for the emancipation of the proletariat?

5

u/Combatical 15d ago

I'm missing you like candy..

2

u/acrunchyfrog 15d ago

I'm not ashamed to admit Dennis Moore was the first person came to mind. "Stand and deliver!"

18

u/SchmidtHitsTheFan Bagel Tosser 15d ago

Well said Luigi.

41

u/LoveTriscuit 15d ago

Has this been confirmed to be genuine?

20

u/DebbieGlez 15d ago

It seems so.

12

u/fourofkeys 15d ago

how/by who?

66

u/justsikko 15d ago

I mean if Ken kilppenstien is the one reporting it I’m inclined to believe it. Dude is a solid ass reporter.

2

u/fourofkeys 15d ago

i've never heard of him, what else has he reported on?

37

u/DebbieGlez 15d ago

The Washington Times and TMZ. Others too but major news outlets are confirming that Klippenstein published it. They’re not publishing it as best I can tell.

33

u/TroutBeales 15d ago

I mean, he’s not wrong

33

u/Hot-Protection-3786 Sponsored by Knife Missiles™️ 15d ago

Honestly Luigi coming out the pipe with a pipe was not on my bingo card.

12

u/lite_hjelpsom 15d ago

Every successful revolution so far has been started and often led by someone close to the oppressing class. Just saying.

8

u/redvelvetcake42 15d ago

Those last 2 sentences. Goddamn.

8

u/NeverForgetNGage Sponsored by Raytheon™️ 15d ago

Good on Klippenstein for publishing it, fuck corporate media for trying to bury it.

7

u/hellolovely1 15d ago

He's not wrong.

1

u/samwise58 15d ago

I haven’t heard Uprisings by Muse in like- 20yrs… All of a sudden I’m hearing it on multiple radio channels. Cool song.

1

u/flaysomewench 15d ago

"Evidently I am the first to face it with such brutal honesty"

I feel this guy wanted to be caught and made an example of. It's so so fucking sad, but that's what I think. Why else meticulously plan a murder only to be caught five days later with all the evidence on you? Including this beautifully written work.

Nolite te bastardes carborundum.

-50

u/Specialist-Smoke 15d ago

I don't see anything special about this manifesto. He's, still a killer and you guys are 5 steps from attending a lynching.

23

u/WhyBuyMe 15d ago

When one individual inflicts bodily injury upon another such that death results, we call the deed manslaughter; when the assailant knew in advance that the injury would be fatal, we call his deed murder. But when society places hundreds of proletarians in such a position that they inevitably meet a too early and an unnatural death, one which is quite as much a death by violence as that by the sword or bullet; when it deprives thousands of the necessaries of life, places them under conditions in which they cannot live – forces them, through the strong arm of the law, to remain in such conditions until that death ensues which is the inevitable consequence – knows that these thousands of victims must perish, and yet permits these conditions to remain, its deed is murder just as surely as the deed of the single individual; disguised, malicious murder, murder against which none can defend himself, which does not seem what it is, because no man sees the murderer, because the death of the victim seems a natural one, since the offence is more one of omission than of commission. But murder it remains. 

-Freidrich Engels

14

u/stron2am 15d ago

How does corporate boot taste? Is it in season right now?

-6

u/Immediate_Spare_3912 15d ago

You guys are looking for a hero and it’s not a good look

4

u/Specialist-Smoke 15d ago

I don't think either one of them are heroes. If Trump put lynchings on PPV a lot of people would pay to see someone get murdered. Especially if it's someone that they don't think is as human as them. It's a slippery slope and I'm never going to dehumanize anyone, but especially not those whom I hate or dislike.