Never Forgive Them

[u/ClockOfTheLongNow]

https://www.wheresyoured.at/never-forgive-them/

[u/horseradishstalker]

"To be clear, I don’t believe that this gradual enshittification is part of some grand, Machiavellian long game by the tech companies, but rather the product of multiple consecutive decisions made in response to short-term financial needs. Even if it was, the result would be the same — people wouldn’t notice how bad things have gotten until it’s too late, or they might just assume that tech has always sucked, or they’re just personally incapable of using the tools that are increasingly fundamental to living in a modern world. 

You are the victim of a con — one so pernicious that you’ve likely tuned it out despite the fact it’s part of almost every part of your life. It hurts everybody you know in different ways, and it hurts people more based on their socioeconomic status. It pokes and prods and twists millions of little parts of your life, and it’s everywhere, so you have to ignore it, because complaining about it feels futile, like complaining about the weather. "

[u/Business_Sense955 → u/horseradishstalker]

So what else is new you’re just now figuring this out

[u/horseradishstalker → u/Business_Sense955]

Are you replying to the person who wrote the quote? Because I don’t think they are on this sub.

[u/Mind_Extract → u/Business_Sense955]

Doing your part to enshittify the Internet, I see.

[u/aridcool]

1. Just a reminder that Windows 11 is hot garbage. Microsoft will keep shoving new versions of Windows down our throat to spy on us, have power over us, and take our money. But there is another way. Linux exists people.

2. I will never stop using the classic reddit interface.

3. Finding phones with physical keyboards gets tougher every generation and that is bullshit.

[u/cosmic_cosmosis → u/aridcool]

Why phones with physical buttons? Is it a preference thing?

[u/aridcool → u/cosmic_cosmosis]

Somewhat. I think it helps me type more accurately. Big fingers.

[u/cosmic_cosmosis → u/aridcool]

Ah Gotchya. I recently heard non physical buttons are cheaper to produce so companies prefer them. Not sure on the validity of that

[u/Sansa_Culotte_ → u/cosmic_cosmosis]

non physical buttons are cheaper to produce

evidently, things that don't physically exist are easier to produce, yes

[u/cosmic_cosmosis → u/Sansa_Culotte_]

I just figured it’s weird that making a much larger touch screen is cheaper. I never really thought about it much before someone mentioned it. I do miss physical buttons on certain things, specially touch screens do not belong in cars (imho)

[u/Sansa_Culotte_ → u/cosmic_cosmosis]

It was a joke. I don't think it's cheaper in the abstract, but largely due to the fact that these screens are all made in the same handful of factories in China (and I guess that one in Korea where Samsung makes their stuff).

[u/cosmic_cosmosis → u/Sansa_Culotte_]

Oh sorry I missed the joke! Can’t say I know too much about tech manufacturing but would imagine there’s a monopoly on screens

[u/Appropriate372 → u/cosmic_cosmosis]

The cost of buttons is negligible for a phone. Its pennies. The issue is size. There is a lot of demand for maximizing screenspace while minimizing size and weight. Touch screens are the logical outcome.

[u/ClockOfTheLongNow]

I don't agree with every word or conclusion of this, but the broad strokes are spot-on: the current technology landscape is definitely anti-user, probably anti-human, and definitely making things worse and getting even moreso. It's not quite enshittification, it's something more.

[u/manimal28 → u/ClockOfTheLongNow]

As I read the reticle, I kept thinking how Reddit keeps trying to force me onto the shitty new reddit and every few weeks I have to go into my settings and force it to default back to old reddit so I can have a browsing experience I enjoy.

[u/sqqlut → u/manimal28]

I don't know why but I don't have this problem using old.reddit, but the app tries to activate notifications all the time. Reddit is like all of these now.

[u/Aldryc]

Something that I think articles like this should probably address that they often ignore is how much society has improved the public's lives, often in ways that also exploit content creators. Spotify gives me access to almost all the music in the world, for only $9.99 a month. Youtube gives me access to academic content, amateur video essays, philosophy discussions, and all sorts of other interesting creators for free. Wikipedia gives me an unimaginable amount of human knowledge for nothing. Streaming services give me access to more and better television and movies than humans have ever had access to before. If tech is at war with it's users, it's users are waging war right back demanding ever more content for insanely cheap prices, and if they don't get it they'll figure out a way to get it for free. In between all the artists and creatives are the ones getting squeezed. I'm extremely sympathetic to the argument made in this piece, but I'm skeptical that this can be lain solely at the feet of tech moguls. I think tech has incentivized some of the worst impulses of both users and tech companies, and technology has empowered both sides in ways never seen before in human history.

Just looking at how tech has disrupted the news media really shows that in a lot of ways tech really empowers the worse impulses of the collective public. The responses tech has had, such as with low effort clickbait journalism, while nefarious and insidious and rots away at our collective trust and intelligence, is also a direct response and engagement with poor behavior by the public. We've been given access to more journalism than ever before, and we consistently choose to engage with poor quality nonsense, while refusing to pay for local or investigative journalism that actually provides a benefit to society.

So I guess the question is, how do were incentivize better behavior when one side is incentivized to offer deals to good to be true, then figure out sneaky ways to exploit customers over time, and a public who seems increasingly demanding of ever cheaper content that they seem to engage with in lazier and lazier ways. I don't know the answer, but I think if we don't consider the problem holistically, we won't ever arrive at an actual solution.

[u/ClockOfTheLongNow → u/Aldryc]

I mean, one can be immeasurably better off in the broad strokes while also being extremely harmed otherwise. The exchange we've made for a firehose of knowledge and content is endless data collection and aggressive tactics designed for engagement and clicks rather than some sort of equitable or reasonable split.

[u/Aldryc → u/ClockOfTheLongNow]

Yep, I agreed with all that already. The question is, how do you fix the tech companies malfeasance when the environment partially incentivizing their behavior is demanded by consumers? 

[u/horseradishstalker → u/Aldryc]

Regulate tech the way the FDA regulates Big Pharma. It's not perfect, but it's better than a free for all with the last one standing the winner.

[u/Appropriate372 → u/horseradishstalker]

So make tech companies do expensive human trials before their allowed to make changes to their website? Chain of custody and lots of paperwork on coding changes? Censor any websites that haven't been approved by this new agency?

As someone who has worked in big pharma, that phrase doesn't make sense to me.

[u/GateNk → u/Aldryc]

Perhaps an economy that works better for people so that they feel empowered to make choices normally only reserved for the more fortunate. (E.g. the Apple device owners cited in the article)

[u/catch_dot_dot_dot]

I can't help but state the obvious: this is far too long and repetitive. It veers in and out of logic and hyperbole, it would almost drive you mad to read it top to bottom.

That said, the central point is sound. Technology is oppressive and impersonal. Tech companies lack empathy for the end user and only strive for increased shareholder value. You could argue this has always been the case, but tech companies have turbocharged this to a level beyond anything else. It's the smartest people all putting their mind towards maximising shareholder value, causing a wake of destruction in their path.

One point that isn't covered is how and why we got onto this path. The path of ads and engagement ruling all technology. I would argue it's because no one wanted to pay for digital services. The value of software cratered after the dot-com bubble (turn of the millenium). Ads took off in the mid 00s and it's a straight line from there into today's enshittification.

[u/Osiris62 → u/catch_dot_dot_dot]

Well, your user name is also too long and repetitive /s. Sorry I couldn't resist that. You are absolutely correct about the essay, though. Every one on Zitron's site is equally long and repetitive. But his message is so spot on, and so few others are talking about this issue with such candor, that I will overlook his quirks and read the whole thing anyway.

[u/Appropriate372 → u/catch_dot_dot_dot]

Tech companies lack empathy for the end user and only strive for increased shareholder value.

This goes both ways though. Users have no empathy for the tech companies.

[u/CoffeeElectronic9782]

I love Ed Zitron, but his market predictions are notoriously bad.

[u/haneef81 → u/CoffeeElectronic9782]

For example….?

[u/Erinaceous → u/haneef81]

He said your Mom was finished after she took the entire Alphabet C suite but it turns out she was just getting started on the D

[u/CoffeeElectronic9782 → u/haneef81]

Said Google earnings were gonna be shit.

[u/horseradishstalker → u/CoffeeElectronic9782]

Doesn't that actually depend on the anti-trust suit?

edit: minor mispelling

[u/CoffeeElectronic9782 → u/horseradishstalker]

He said it was coz the Ads guy left.

[u/horseradishstalker → u/CoffeeElectronic9782]

And then they figured out how to sell everyone's private information for profit instead. Sneaky.

[u/Osiris62 → u/[deleted]]

Actually, the Private Equity and Mergers and Acquisitions guys (business school grads) started it in the 80's. Do they count as tech bros?

[u/TheShipEliza]

"You are the victim of a con — one so pernicious that you’ve likely tuned it out despite the fact it’s part of almost every part of your life."

fwiw I have felt it. and i have greatly reduced my footprint online in response. i am not at a place in my life where i can just get a land line and an answering machine but even if I can never escape AWS or the like its worth being intentional about what you consume and how.

[u/clayton26]

"Mark Zuckerberg is a putrid ghoul" ijbol

[u/goatfresh]

bro the newsletter popup 🤡