r/ROI • u/CautiousListen5914 • Aug 18 '24

🇺🇸 AmeriKKKa Ukrainian troops abduct civilians, their hands bound, blindfolded, they are taken away in trucks, beaten, and then disappear. Numerous reports of these types of abductions in the Kursk region.

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u/defixiones Aug 19 '24

This is the difference between journalism and propaganda.

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u/CautiousListen5914 Aug 19 '24

Yes, one that you decide to believe because it suits you, you call journalism.

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u/defixiones Aug 19 '24

No, the difference is supplying translation, source, date and location. Without those, all stories will be a matter of belief, feelings and interpretation.

Propagandists love nothing more than this, a situation where everyone is disbelieved equally and everything is a matter of interpretation.

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u/CautiousListen5914 Aug 19 '24

Without those, all stories will be a matter of belief, feelings and interpretation.

Nope, even with those it's the same thing. It doesn't matter how much evidence you provide, people believe what they want to believe. It's the Emperor's New Clothes. There are still people today who are pretending to believe that the Russian invasion was "unprovoked". Today in 2024. Nothing will convince them.

There's some even in denial that Ukraine is a fascist dictatorship with an ultrantionalism rooted in Nazism. These people will tell you that they believe the genocidal USA. Really.

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u/defixiones Aug 19 '24

You posted "Ukrainian troops abduct civilians, their hands bound, blindfolded, they are taken away in trucks, beaten, and then disappear. Numerous reports of these types of abductions in the Kursk region." but you don't know the what the video is or what they are saying in it, so I searched for it.

You pasted it as is from Chay Bowes on Twitter (https://x.com/BowesChay/status/1824885942106173717). I don't know why you didn't attribute it when asked.

I looked him up too and he is a founding member of The Ditch and, according to RTE (https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2023/0630/1392098-un-chay-bowes/) was sent by Russia to speak about Ukraine at the UN.

He is a correspondent for Russia Today (https://www.thejournal.ie/ukraine-russia-disinformation-china-campaigns-embassy-symposium-6224226-Nov2023/) and describes himself on Twitter as "Interested in History, Strategy (MA) GeoPolitics, Facts should define the Narrative, the Narrative shouldn’t define the facts. Think for Yourself."

Now, I can see why this is appealing to you as you are obviously very pro-Russian too, but he does not provide any facts, source, translation or context either.

So when it comes down to it you are repeating content you cannot understand from Twitter while concealing the source of that information.

The video itself may be legit, but the responsible thing to do would be to try and find out what it is before posting it with someone else's caption.

I know this is only a social media site, but you can't then be upset if people don't take it at face value.

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u/CautiousListen5914 Aug 19 '24

Here's another one to make excuses about. https://x.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1825508956401254791

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u/defixiones Aug 19 '24

I know and follow Arnaud Bertrand. Look at the difference from Chay Bowes; the video is sources and attributes. The tweet makes no claims beyond what you can see in the video.

Do you honestly think the two are equivalent?

Bertrand has his own biases, but not the blatant conspiracy nonsense Bowes is pumping out.

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u/CautiousListen5914 Aug 19 '24

the video is sources and attributes.

You mean the overlay with the location? Sure anyone can do that. It's probably staged in Japan for all you know. Yet you choose to believe it. How can you even trust the subtitles? Do you speak French?

Bertrand has his own biases, but not the blatant conspiracy nonsense Bowes is pumping out.

Like you said earlier, this guy was involved in The Ditch. Historically Ireland's greatest journalistic outfit.

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u/defixiones Aug 19 '24

Well then, where is the location? Who made it? What language is it in?

As for the Bertrand video, it probably helps that I can understand French but I can also make a judgement based on the source.

Bowes was a source for the Ditch and briefly had an editing role. I don't think they qualifies him as a journalist in Russian affairs. 

His feed is full of barely-disguised nonsense - it's not even really meant to be taken seriously, it just adds some noise, stirs some anger and engages the algorithm. I notice he exclusively repeats content on Ukraine now.

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u/CautiousListen5914 Aug 19 '24

Well then, where is the location? Who made it? What language is it in?

Who knows? Nobody can really know anything. Maybe the universe is a simulation. Hume believed that our understanding of the world is based on custom, habit, and probability, rather than on certain or absolute knowledge.

Bowes was a source for the Ditch and briefly had an editing role. I don't think they qualifies him as a journalist in Russian affairs.

He could be just fed propaganda. Everything is propaganda after all anyway.

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u/CautiousListen5914 Aug 19 '24

I don't know why you didn't attribute it when asked.

You never asked. No need to lie. Or is there?

but he does not provide any facts, source, translation or context either.

But this is all untrue. Everything you're saying can be said about anything, the BBC, the Guardian, whatever. The BBC is state media with an inherent bias. But you'd have no issue with that, right?

but you can't then be upset if people don't take it at face value.

Well I'm not, sounds like you are though. Going to great lengths to cast doubt on this obviously true story. It's too mundane to fake.

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u/defixiones Aug 19 '24

So it is from Chay Bowes? He offers no attribution or translation of the video. 

If the story is obviously true then what do you think it shows? When do you think it was recorded?

You don't seem to distinguish between opinions and facts. Not everything is an opinion.

This video is low on verifiable information and you have accepted it anyway.

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u/CautiousListen5914 Aug 19 '24

He offers no attribution or translation of the video.

Normal enough carry on for most journos.

If the story is obviously true then what do you think it shows?

In the title.

When do you think it was recorded?

Past few days I'd say.

This video is low on verifiable information and you have accepted it anyway.

Yep. It's very credible.