I'll have my bad guy beat up your bad guy for talking bad about that other bad guy that is doing bad things to that other bad guy because I'm not a bad guy!
Really in the case of middle-east it's more like that both sides have done a ton of bad shit to each other to the point that the whole "who started it" question is completely meaningless by now. As a result every party has a "but they did X so we are justified in doing Y" against the other party.
So then, as an outsider, if you feel any kind of sympathy towards either side it quickly snowballs into "but the other side...". But the way I see it, both sides have so much blood and bullshit in their hands that I cannot with good conscience support either side so all I can do about it is grab the popcorn and see where it goes.
The thing that gets me is when people on the internet who have no physical stake in it whatsoever have to jump in and take sides. Oh Israel did this, Hamas did that, Hezbollah did the other thing, come on, we all know the roots of this goes back generations and there are evil men at the head of each faction causing horrible atrocities. Nobody is worth rooting for in this.
Nobody is worth rooting for here except the innocent civilians whose lives are being torn apart, and the only way to actually support them is to call for an end to it.
Well you can't tell me that Israel didn't commit genocide several times in the last 20 years. Logic that the dog bites back if punched so often, Israel did it to himself. But still I would rather see peace.
The first six months of when? In the last 20 years, definitely. That the Muslim countries now say "you went to far with your definition of defence, now we will defend ourselves.". That you compare 6 months with 20+ years I can't agree with.
Israel did take Jerusalem away from the Muslims after 1945 with the help of western civilization because "it was their promised land" in a f*cking book.
My parents are from Israël and even they say that Israël has much more blood on their hands than any other party in this conflict.
George Carlin - if you read history, you realize that God is one of the leading causes of death. Has been for thousands of years. Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Christians all taking turns killing each other ‘cause God told them it was a good idea. The sword of God, the blood of the land, vengeance is mine. Millions of dead motherfuckers. Millions of dead motherfuckers all because they gave the wrong answer to the God question. “You believe in God?” “No.” Boom. Dead. “You believe in God?” “Yes.” “You believe in my God? “No.” Boom. Dead. “My God has a bigger dick than your God!”
Amen. I've been studiously recycling my cans and plastic to do my bit for the planet and these dickheads are levelling whole cities with missiles. Absolute twats.
Fun fact. Only 5% of plastic is recyclable despite what it may say on the container. Oil companies started the recycling thing to convince people plastic wasn’t that bad.
Indeed, they are 2 sides of the same coin. Extremists on one side are using terrorism, so that the extremists on the other side can get to power, that’s exactly what they want. The far-right rise in the west is exactly what bin Laden and ISIS would have wanted. Because this way they can say to their masses “see, they really hate us”. It’s the same shit everywhere, it’s just a way for the 0.1% to control the 99.9% by make them hate a common enemy.
I actually think you miss a lot if you say that both sides are the same. One side is made up of some of the poorest, most disenfranchised people in the world. The other side gets a blank check from the global superpower and has never faced any real consequences for any of their actions. Are you really saying that they are the same?
i hate bibi but this is absolutely not two sides of the same coin. hamas's only goal is to destroy israel, they dont give a shit about palestinians and actively put them in harm's way. israel just wants to exist without getting attacked. are they too warmongering? yes. but there is no moral equivalence here
Given Bibi's actions I think it probably was a pipe dream any ceasefire deal was possible. We just should have cut military aid. Honestly Biden fucked this all up.
Once the election is over and the Dems don't need the pro Israel voters, they will likely halt shipments of weapons or at least severely reduce them. That is probably why Bibi is doing this now. They know they can't risk anything in this election if they want to win though and are basically BiBis sugar daddy for war
If only the ceasefire would of allowed the return of all hostages, and not the dead bodies of hostages with alive hostages to be agreed on at a later date. Who the fuck would agree to that? It is an insane ceasefire to agree to
Why are whatever hostages even relevant in terms of decisions about war and peace? Criminals take hostages. Good governments pursue criminals. Good governments don't make peace with criminals. There's never any ceasefire with criminals. But you don't bomb towns to get criminals. You do police work to get criminals. I don't get why returning whatever hostages have anything to do with whether Israel should stop bombing Gaza. Bombing Gaza as Israel is doing is collective punishment/demolishing the whole city to get at the criminals. That's a war crime.
I am not sure this benefits trump. if this came from Gaza and biden handed more aid to Israel maybe. This is iran though, GOP and Democrats both don't like Iran
There's a lot of propaganda out there telling people to vote Trump or Stein because Biden is aiding Israel. Never mind the fact that Trump said outright that Palestine would cease to exist, and Stein is a Russian spoiler to take votes from Biden
Don't forget, the extremists in charge of Iran also get their ends... They rile up their base with the whole Israel bad thing (so said an Iranian Taxi driver I chatted to last year).
At this point I'm actually fine saying that Hamas is the lesser evil. They are no angels but at the end of the day, many of them are orphans who grew up in a modern concentration camp. What the hell do you expect them to do? What choice were they really given?
Meanwhile Bibi and the other oligarchs who run Israel are wealthy and powerful men who can live anywhere they want, pursue whatever kind of life they want - and this is what they choose to do. Grotesque.
Israël is getting what they want, a genocide and gain of land on Palestine. The only goal they ever had is to destroy and kill all of Palestine. It was clear since the beginning
Hamas is getting exactly what they wanted - almost a year after October 7th, they have gotten a larger response to Israeli aggression.
Why don't you say why October 7 happened? It's constant land stealing by Israeli settlers from the West Bank and an open air prison in both Gaza and West Bank. Israeli society as a whole sees this as an excellent chance for genocide in Gaza. They are well aware that they won't get a better chance ever again.
It seems like bibi is just a scapegoat so the US and other supporters can say, it was him being evil all along even though they keep supplying weapons to him. Not to mention the various office holders in Israel keep saying to eradicate all the arabs.
The ones calling him evil are not the ones giving him weapons or even supporting that we do that. The ones giving him weapons invite him for speeches and give standing ovations.
The IDF is so fucking bloodthirsty they're killing their own hostages, under a banner of truce. That's so far away from how even the worst regimes treat noncombatants.
You can’t deny this is good for him. Equating him to hamas might be a stretch but they’re playing the same sport. He is pulling a George bush and needs this to remain in power, he was widely unpopular prior to this recent uptick in response to the hamas attack.
Who tf is "you guys"? You're the one making your life politics, you even have triablist politically charged username. Reddit is known for bot farming around election season. I don't need your comfort or consideration.
Yea... politics is pretty fucking important to me. And it should be important to you. We can't really afford apathy right now.
I think the biggest danger of AI/bots right now, is that it allows people to convince themselves that anyone who disagrees with them isn't real. And to live in a delusion that everyone thinks and believes just like they do.
I didn't say you did but you asked if I was comforted.
Yea... politics is pretty fucking important to me. And it should be important to you. We can't really afford apathy right now. I think the biggest danger of AI/bots right now, is that it allows people to convince themselves that anyone who disagrees with them isn't real. And to live in a delusion that everyone thinks and believes just like they do.
I'm interested in neither your biography or opinions.
But what do I know. I'm not real, apparently.
I didn't say you were a bot, that's a straw man argument.
I view the appalling overly destructive response to Oct 7th as the Israeli government lashing out over Hamas not knowing their place and carrying out a large scale attack instead of continuing the status quo that was keeping current Israeli leadership safely in positions of power. Oct 7th threatened Netanyahu so obviously he had to make a response that makes him look good to the Israeli people because that is the only way he wouldn’t be forced out of power for his failures. Anyone denying the fact that Netanyahu uses Hamas for his own gain is just wrong. I fully believe Netanyahu would be willing to start a potential world war if that was the only way for him to remain in power.
Hamas is winning because Israel successfully radicalized a bunch of people who have lost everything because of Israel’s utter contempt for the Palestinian people.
Netanyahu is winning because he has successfully managed to stay in power.
Trump has already released a statement saying this is all Bidens' fault, and this would never have happened with him in office. It's bullshit. But bullshit works.
Why on earth would an unpopular escalated conflict help the administration currently in office?
Because the current admin gets the blame, and by extension Harris gets the blame. While Trump just has to say he will magically fix it (hint: he won’t, and will make it worse). So people are more likely to either sit out the vote or vote for Trump over it.
The fact that he even literally says this shit out loud to people and people still support him already shows Israel is probably just as bad as America is right now as far as their political status is. Bibi is like trump , dude is just going to get away with everything
Don't forget the lobby groups for the yanks, specifically AIPAC in this case as they have and will prop up evangelical nut jobs/ far right lunatics (as well as leftwing governments for now) if it gets Israel new toys and Aid.
It’s certainly interesting they never seem to pick some villa of a rich ass dude. It’s always a flat with people who have nothing to do with it or a hospital or school.
Yup literally sending untold amounts of people to die because rich folks can't talk things out . I will never kill another human because some rich person tells me to .
Bunch of old men with soft dick problems picking fights with other old men with soft dicks, all while other soft-dicked old men get behind the aggressors. Then they send the young bucks who have manhoods to die.
...and the politicians and oligarchs are shareholders in defense contractor multinationals, perpetuating the cycle of mindless lust for wealth, power and fighting a dehumanized outgroup to the death.
What a fun thing for sentient supernova products to risk their existence with!
War is two people not getting along scaled the hell up. If we as individuals start getting along and not wishing ill to others, the wars will stop. How do you feel about Trump, Gaetz? If concern, it's reasonable, if vitriol then it's very roughly the same thing.
But then those poor people just rally around the cause anyway, fall in line and get angry at the other side instead of their leaders who dragged them into it in the first place.
This is not a war of ego for BB. Israel is surrounded by death cult barbarians who attack them relentlessly. If they didn't defend themselves, these threats would be amplified and multipled. Then how many more innocent civilians would suffer? You're oversimplifying everything.
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u/bubba_bumble Oct 01 '24
War is so dumb. The poorest people suffer the most from politicians and oligarchs who refuse to check their ego.