r/NewsAndPolitics • u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ United States • Oct 12 '24
Social Commentary Jason Hickel explains why a liberated Palestine threatens global capitalism: 'A liberated Palestine means a liberated Middle East. A liberated Middle East means capitalism really faces a crisis[...] & they're unleashing the full violence of their extraordinary power to ensure it doesn't.'
61
u/AssumedPersona Oct 13 '24 edited Oct 13 '24
Hickel doesn't mention here the central tool of capitalist imperialism: the US dollar. Dollar hedgemony is the means by which capitalism monopolizes resource exploitation of the global south, through mechanisms such as the 'petro-dollar' and the IMF loan system.
However because of a phenomenon known as the Triffin dilemma, the dollar's dual status as a domestic and global reserve currency renders its fate inevitable, hastened by its weaponization through sanctions. The US' insistance on promoting the dollar as the global reserve currency afforded them almost half a century of supremacy through exhorbitant privilage, but ultimately this short-sighted greed will prove to be its downfall.
The world would be a very different place if Keynes' proposal of Bancor had been adopted instead, and a new supranational reserve currency which reflects his ideas will present a very attractive alternative. In the meantime however, we can expect the US to stoop to ever worsening forms of violence and aggression in the vain attempt to defend its dominance.
22
u/whater39 Oct 13 '24
I've always thought Iraq was attacked over its Petro dollar switching to the Euro from the USD.
20
u/AssumedPersona Oct 13 '24
Also Libya over Gaddafi's proposal for an African gold dinar which would be used to trade oil.
15
u/salkhan Oct 13 '24
Also the CIA, that reports to the executive branch of the US government, Topples and weaks foreign governments (even democracies) via any means necessary.
10
u/HeidFirst Oct 13 '24
Yes, "democratic" means compliant to the imperial will. Do as we say and you're a democracy.
1
20
18
u/Archarchery Oct 13 '24
I’m very skeptical that capitalism is the thing keeping the Palestinians from being liberated, they are quite simply prevented from having a state by Zionist interests who want to seize and ethnically cleanse their land to expand Israel.
45
u/NewVentures66 Oct 13 '24
Zionism may have been the catalyst and the means / excuse for Isreal's commencement and existence, but this is an effective argument for its continuation.
Why are countries like the USA and the UK, Canada, and Australia aiding and abetting this genocide?
28
u/Dry_Meringue_8016 Oct 13 '24
Yeah, Israel's creation was originally a British project that was intended to establish a beachhead amongst the Arabs to control the region and its resources.
-8
u/Beddingtonsquire Oct 13 '24
Jews existed there the whole time, those who had been historically driven out returned and and exercised the right to self-determination.
Even if I took your argument at face value, so what? It's now a state where people have lived for over 75 years, soon there will be no one alive from the region before it was Israel.
3
u/Careless_Kale3072 Oct 13 '24
Woah woah woah, you’re just straight up writing genocidal statements, did you forget all the second class citizens living within Israel??? At most, you should argue that Israel will do a Canada and retroactively apologize for their genocide and start their own impotent truth and reconciliation campaigns.
Okay you need perspective for real, here- this is what collaboration between Palestinians and Israelis actually look like, I hope you take a minute to reflect upon what you wrote and how deeply you’ve wronged yourself.
The rest is a tangent, I’d rather you click the link then read my honest feelings
Because I will not allow Israel to k/ll every palestinian. They are my friends, they are my neighbours, they are a part of my beloved world. Even if Gaza is taken, even if West Bank is overrun and claimed by racist settlements, their children, the diaspora, the refugees will always continue to have the right to return.
But, we don’t need to worry about that, because there are real and compassionate solutions. Justice is still possible, and you too, you can become a better person too. Take care, learn with an open heart.
I have no enemies, do you?
-1
u/Beddingtonsquire Oct 14 '24
Woah woah woah, you’re just straight up writing genocidal statements
WTF are you talking about?
did you forget all the second class citizens living within Israel???
Who is that then? Not that it's happening but even if it were that wouldn't be genocide.
At most, you should argue that Israel will do a Canada and retroactively apologize for their genocide and start their own impotent truth and reconciliation campaigns.
Ironic given that in this example Jews are the equivalent of the First Nations people. You may remember this one Jew, Jesus Christ from the town of Bethlehem, he lived there long before Islam came into existence.
If they did do a truth and reconciliation then it would be Palestinians, Islamic Caliphate descendants and Italian decendants apologising to Jews for kicking them out of the Kingdom of Judah and the Kingdom of Israel. History doesn't just start when you want it to.
How are you so uneducated about the history here?
Okay you need perspective for real, here- this is what collaboration between Palestinians and Israelis actually look like,
Israel has offered Palestinians collaborations many times, they just get attacked and when Palestine loses it comes back and says - how about the previous deal we rejected.
I hope you take a minute to reflect upon what you wrote and how deeply you’ve wronged yourself.
You're the one who has "wronged" here - you literally deny the history that Jews come from the Levant. And that they exercised their self-determination rights and then all the surrounding Arab countries tried to kill them.
a land for all
Please, Hamas's slogan is literally "From the river to the sea Palestine will be Arab" - they don't want a land for all. Anyone who isn't Muslim living under a caliphate is literally treated as a second class person.
The rest is a tangent, I’d rather you click the link then read my honest feelings
The Jews don't want a land where they are subject to the threats of a region and culture that has endlessly tried to drive them into the sea. They're not willing to give up control over their destiny, it's a non-starter. It's hilarious that your link is written in English - talk about foreigners pushing their wants on regions that have nothing to do with them.
Because I will not allow Israel to k/ll every palestinian.
Israel doesn't want to kill any Palestinians, they are the ones who get attacked and then have to respond. But a lot of Palestinians have wanted to kill Israelis including children, they showed as much on October 7th.
They are my friends, they are my neighbours, they are a part of my beloved world.
Yes, it's tragic that religious extremists use them as human shields when firing rockets with the intention of killing Jews.
Even if Gaza is taken
They're not going to take Gaza. They will probably break it into 3 chunks and occupy the border line with Egypt for the foreseeable future.
even if West Bank is overrun and claimed by racist settlements, their children, the diaspora,
They will probably stay pretty much as is in the West Bank.
the refugees will always continue to have the right to return.
Why do Palestinians have a right of return to a state that never existed but Jews and Israeli's don't, even when the Kingdom of Israel did exist?
But, we don’t need to worry about that, because there are real and compassionate solutions.
He place has been in near constant conflict for thousands of years, why do you think there are any solutions?
Justice is still possible
Israel is getting justice against Hamas's actions.
and you too, you can become a better person too.
As you can, by not holding a racist ideas about the Jews and acknowledging their rights to self-determination.
Take care, learn with an open heart.
You take care, please open your heart and see Jews as people too.
I have no enemies, do you?
More nemesies, but not really.
1
u/Careless_Kale3072 Oct 14 '24
I’m genuinely so disappointed in you right now, but it’s okay.
0
u/Beddingtonsquire Oct 14 '24
I'm saddened that you can't accept where you're wrong and don't want to reflect.
1
u/Hungry-Square2148 Oct 14 '24
you idiots are just giving justifications to future hitlers
0
u/Beddingtonsquire Oct 14 '24
It's insane that you and invoke Hitler when talking about the Jews, that's such grotesque antisemitism.
Are you denying that Jews exist in the Levant and have a history there going back thousands of years?
1
u/Hungry-Square2148 Oct 14 '24
you know what's grotesque ? what jews are doing to Palestinians and Labanese.
1
u/Beddingtonsquire Oct 14 '24
What's grotesque is what Hamas did to Jews, they are ensuring it can never happen again.
As for Hezbolla, they were a group of terrorists who have murdered thousands of civilians, and they are now substantially weakened.
6
u/baddadjokesminusdad Oct 13 '24
It’s a smokescreen for countries like US. I can see the merits of Hickel’s argument here: my company, like many other companies, is pushing for ai dev right now. And like he said, the absolute ecological disaster it spells is not something you see in England,at least not yet.
-2
u/Beddingtonsquire Oct 13 '24
What ecological disaster? Climate change is being addressed by these countries.
You think there's some way to have 8 billion people alive under current living standards today without these issues?
6
u/MarKengBruh Oct 13 '24
Canada
We are trapped by strategic voting and parties that are corrupt.
They don't listen because there's no accountability in our systems and getting enough power to change them is basically impossible.
Its literally this
-4
u/Beddingtonsquire Oct 13 '24
You say "for its continuation" and then accuse it of genocide.
Implicit in your argument would be the dissolution of Israel and that would be a genocidal act.
2
u/JKnumber1hater Oct 13 '24
The countries of the imperial core continue to fund and support Israel purely because it furthers their imperial goals in the region — ie. a giant US military base and weapons testing facility slap bang in the centre of the Middle East.
A united and stable Middle East would be very powerful on the global stage, the same could be said of Africa and parts of East Asia. If all these regions were stable and united it would mean the instant death of the US empire, and probably also the death of global capitalism. That’s why the imperial core is so desperate to keep these regions destabilised.
1
u/willow_tangerine Oct 13 '24
The global north funds/enables Israel because it advances our economic interests in the region. Don’t want another 1973 oil crisis.
1
u/Far-Leave2556 Oct 13 '24
Global North built the current world order that heavily, really massively, favors them. This is the result of 2 centuries of blood and sweat of the whole west collectively. And they are quite literally throwing all of it away just for Israel to have 7% more land. It doesn't really benefit the global north at all they are doing this to the detriment of their own interests.
Here is the thing tho, it is exactly because of capitalism that they cannot act rationally and oppose Israel
2
u/willow_tangerine Oct 13 '24
Shares of Lockheed Martin and other arms manufacturers have skyrocketed since Oct. 7 2023. The rule of fascism (and capitalism) is constant war and constant aquisition/accumulation. So far, no countries are willing to stand up to the U.S. and Israel so it hasn't really backfired on them yet.
1
u/Far-Leave2556 Oct 13 '24 edited Oct 13 '24
I don't agree with other replies to your very reasonable comment. The global north is NOT really gaining anything from their support for isn'treal rather they are risking a perfectly advantageous setup they worked so hard for.
The core premise holds tho. The people behind the project Israel and project Unites States, the ones controlling the global finance, their power comes from capitalism. Therefore it is also capitalism that is the biggest obstacle for Palestinian liberation.
Take the the US elections for example. They could set up this hideous two party farce and make people believe it is a democracy because capitalism allows them to control every single media channel in the world
-2
1
-23
u/Nomfbes2 Oct 13 '24
When you get too hyped up watching Soviet marches
15
u/Unknown-Comic4894 Oct 13 '24
Let’s watch Top Gun instead
8
u/oncothrow Oct 13 '24
No he's right, the absolute and only thing we should be thinking of is fighting those damnable Russkies. Just like in Rambo 3.
I heard it was dedicated to all those brave goodguy Afghanistan Mujahideen who we were helping out back in the 80's. Whatever happened with those guys by the way?
6
u/Unknown-Comic4894 Oct 13 '24
They liberated themselves from capitalist imperialism and are the vanguard for the degrowth community.
1
u/Beddingtonsquire Oct 13 '24
Degrowth as these people want it would lead to a substantial fall in living standards. It wouldn't be some quick and easy transition to utopia.
3
u/Unknown-Comic4894 Oct 13 '24
Utopia is off the table:
Earth will warm 2.7 degrees Celsius based on current pledges to cut emissions
1
u/Beddingtonsquire Oct 13 '24
There is no utopia, especially with degrowth which would be far worse than this limited warming.
We adapt and as cold kills more people than heat it's been a net benefit to have a warmer climate so far.
1
u/Unknown-Comic4894 Oct 13 '24
I didn’t know it was Opposite Day, Happy Farewell!
1
u/Beddingtonsquire Oct 14 '24
You don't even know the impact of the things you advocate for.
1
u/Unknown-Comic4894 Oct 14 '24
I am not an advocate for degrowth. It is out of our hands. I have no misconceptions about what is going to happen though.
→ More replies (0)1
-30
-4
-6
u/Beddingtonsquire Oct 13 '24
Hickel's work was laughable before this. We knew he was a socialist and Marxist, this shows him up as a conspiracy theorist.
The Middle East is already liberated and capitalism, the right to have economic freedom and own property, is not at risk.
1
u/LifesPinata Oct 14 '24
It makes me very happy that tons of people are now aware of the shortcomings of capitalism, with more becoming aware of it with every passing day.
Defending capitalism while talking about the occupation and brutalization of the Middle East is so stupid, idk where to even start
1
u/Beddingtonsquire Oct 14 '24
What are you talking about? Capitalism has led to a 70% fall in extreme poverty since just 1990.
Go back just 200 years and consider livings standards, life expectancy, literacy and measures of the quality of life.
Defending capitalism while talking about the occupation and brutalization of the Middle East is so stupid, idk where to even start
Blaming capitalism for the Middle East conflict is an absurd take.
The brutalisation came on October 7th, Israel is defending itself from those who want to drive the Jews into the sea and have said they would to repeat October 7th over and over.
1
u/LifesPinata Oct 14 '24
Lmao. The vast majority of eradication of extreme poverty came from the USSR and PRC, with the latter lifting out 600m people out of extreme poverty.
The brutalization of the ME from Western powers through Israel started DECADES ago. October 7th was what you get when you foster extremists in the largest open air prison in the world.
Jewish people and Zionists are not the same, the same way Germans and Nazis are not the same.
I'm done arguing with you. Change and grow as a person.
1
u/Beddingtonsquire Oct 14 '24
Lmao. The vast majority of eradication of extreme poverty came from the USSR and PRC, with the latter lifting out 600m people out of extreme poverty.
It hasn't been eradicated, about 9% of people still live in extreme poverty, including in countries like China. It didn't happen in the USSR so much but it did happen in China when they pursued economic reforms that move the country towards capitalism and away from collectivism.
The brutalization of the ME from Western powers through Israel started DECADES ago.
What is your understanding of history!? First, there's been conflict to and from the area for millennia. But no, it wasn't started through Israel decades ago.
October 7th was what you get when you foster extremists in the largest open air prison in the world.
Do you think October 7th was justified!? It wasn't a prison, nor anything close to it. But look at Gaza now, that is the tragic result of the response to October 7th.
Jewish people and Zionists are not the same, the same way Germans and Nazis are not the same.
Do you think Jews are entitled to self-determination?
I'm done arguing with you. Change and grow as a person.
You clearly need to learn about the world, one day you will grow out of such childish and simplistic, not to mention uninformed views.
-34
Oct 13 '24
A liberated Middle East ... LOL
That kind of naive is a bad look on someone his age
6
-26
u/-Weeb_On_Reddit- Oct 13 '24 edited Oct 13 '24
don't know why are you getting downvoted, as an Arab we will never be liberated with our 7th century mentality and toxic culture
13
u/NeverQuiteEnough Oct 13 '24
Before the Carter administration, Afghanistan was a country where women who had the mood could walk to their university classes in bell-bottom jeans, with the wind blowing through their hair.
Here's Carter's secretary of state talking about how they funded the precurso to Al Qaeda in a deliberate attempt to destroy the country.
https://dgibbs.arizona.edu/content/brzezinski-interview-2
Is this the 20th century mentality you aspire to?
2
1
u/DD35B Oct 13 '24
The low estimates of civilian deaths in Afghanistan following the Soviet invasion are around a million
Kinda think like that had more to do with it than Jimmy Carter, but you do you
-25
Oct 13 '24
I'm getting down voted because American children have embraced the idea that all problems are caused by the US
it's the height of arrogance ... the idea Americans have perfected oppression
7
u/Danavixen Oct 13 '24
I would say its been the tens of not hundreds of billions of israeli funding while letting infrastructure, education and healthcare wither back in the states is the problem
the fact that the CIA meddled in democratically held elections overseas didn't help ether
as for oppression, those very well AIPAC funded politicians have no reason to listen to you anymore when you have a need at home
1
u/LifesPinata Oct 14 '24
You're getting downvoted because you're wrong and literally not even worth arguing with
1
Oct 14 '24
Hey look, one of those angry children i spoke of
Listen kid, there's been no peace in the ME since before I was born and I'm old.
There are too many powerful people with money who benefit from this turmoil for it ever to be allowed to stop.
They've managed to reframe it as a religious conflict and told the believers rewards await them in heaven for destroying the evil other side.
You tempt the rich with money and the poor with a party in the afterlife and you've got never ending war
1
u/ryadolittle Oct 14 '24
And ummm….in which nation state dya think those powerful people coalesce? Which govt dya think represents them? Could it be….the US?
1
Oct 14 '24
The US, Europe, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, maybe Syria and likely others.
There are no innocents here
-16
u/-Weeb_On_Reddit- Oct 13 '24
US and Israel played major role, but it mostly Arab culture and Islam is what keeping the middle east behind.
-11
Oct 13 '24
I certainly do not discount US interference
You have all that oil and we want it
I agree the mix of religion and govt in the ME is a bad thing for you.
Watch this get downvoted too
-7
u/Calm_Isopod_9268 Oct 13 '24
I also love how they're ignoring elephant in the room that's called Iran
-11
u/Vivid-Resolve5061 Oct 13 '24
80% of global population can't meet basic needs? Why is he smirking so much?
-4
u/Beddingtonsquire Oct 13 '24
If that were true then those 80% of people would be dead. Their needs are clearly met.
-14
u/Calm_Isopod_9268 Oct 13 '24
Lol, some white leftie don't even know what he is talking about
4
u/The_Ravio_Lee Oct 13 '24
Quick lesson if you want to argue something, you cannot declare victory and expect to have won the argument.
-1
u/Calm_Isopod_9268 Oct 13 '24
I don't have an argument. Im just telling that you're wrong
3
u/The_Ravio_Lee Oct 13 '24
I could tell you don’t have any arguments, no need to out yourself. Saying something doesn’t make it true.
The moon is a big block of cheese. Is it true now?
0
u/Calm_Isopod_9268 Oct 14 '24
Do you really think that I will argue with someone that has anime on his pfp?
1
1
u/The_Ravio_Lee Oct 14 '24
What a clever attempt, you still left the door wide open.
No. I don’t think you are capable of arguing anything at all to anyone.
1
u/JohnnyBaboon123 Oct 13 '24
Most people post replies about the topic, not themselves. Thanks for the info, though.
•
u/AutoModerator Oct 12 '24
Remember the human & be courteous to others.
Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.