I’m sorry for bringing this up. I know it’s a very depressing thought but after witnessing what is happening in North of Gaza (with the full support of our western governments) I’m wondering if this is the beginning of the end. I’ve been thinking about this constantly for the past few days: Israel will not stop its genocide / ethnic cleaning campaign in Gaza. October 7 gave them the perfect opportunity for executing their long awaited plan. The brutality will keep increasing more and more and I fear the same thing will happen in the West Bank. The United States will keep supporting it while it commits these crimes and there is no other player strong enough to stop them. After all, they have already gotten away with an ethnic cleansing in 1948 and 1967. Is there any future for Palestine?

2 state solution is dead. With start with that presumption. The situation now is one state, Israel proper, and tge occupied territories. There is a chance to safe a homeland for Palestinians before they are swept out, ethnically cleansed.

There will be 1 state, either a Zionist apartheid state, with Palestinians stateless and in exile in their homeland, which is de facto the case since 1967 even 1948.

Or There will be a democratic state, multiethnic, Palestinians in the occupied territories will be granted equal rights and due process, full participation in society. a bill of rights and a Constitution. The Republic of Israel-Palestine.

I think it would be more acceptable to Palestinians than Israelis. Israeli Jews will keep their homeland. Palestinians will have their's long-denied. What if we could tell, "You built this state, not without its crimes, now it's time to work for reconciliation and integration, you're no less free, in fact freer and safer by freeing the Palestinians."

It's a fantasy, bit what do you think? Logistically, practically, and morally, coukd 1 free democratic state come into being? In the worst case, civil war and the Yugoslavia 2.0. Were already there. The best case, America after the Civil War, maybe a federation like the Netherlands or even post-1870 Germany?

Disclaimer: If you're a decent person who just happened to be born among occupiers, know that the following does not apply to you.

I have noticed for over a decade now that there seems to be some tacit, unspoken effort, particularly within the American Jewish community, to play off the repugnant behavior common among Israelis as something cute, funny, or otherwise endearing.

I notice things like "there goes Ofer, insulting our waiter's intelligence, don't you just love him," or "Shmuel just cut to the front of the line; I'm sure glad he's with us," or "look, Eli refuses to be a doormat" after Eli escalates a minor disagreement at a party into physical violence.

It's like the very idea that people from israel aren't God's gift to Jews is problematic, so we're taking it upon ourselves to apologize for them. Am I the only one noticing this, or have the rest of you experienced something similar?

I'm going to clap back "At least I'm not a self-hating Nazi"

I want to start off by saying that I am fully aware that October 7th was far from the start of this conflict. It was a reaction to years of occupation and nonstop oppression from Israel that has left thousands of Palestinians dead over the last 70+ years.

However, I think many pro-Palestinian people still talk about it as if it was nothing. Even though I can totally understand why it happened, I’m not going to dismiss that innocent people died and act like it’s no big deal. Again, this does not at all mean that I think Israel’s response is justified, as it clearly is not. It also doesn’t mean that I think the death toll wasn’t inflated by Israel’s actions against their own people and the Hannibal directive.

Still, I think comments like “October 7th was deserved” or “what’s X number of Israelis compared to tens of thousands of Palestinians” are not only wrong on moral grounds considering the civilian and child life loss, but they really hurt the pro-Palestinian movement.

I think that it’s similar to saying “the US deserved 9/11 because of the American military’s involvement in foreign affairs.” Yes, on paper the cause of 9/11 is clear and it was just one event in a much larger conflict, but a comment like this overlooks the very real loss of lives of people who did not intentionally contribute to the conflict (I understand it’s more complicated as Israel is recently stolen land, but my point is that the people who did die may not have played a personal role in the conflict or even supported the Israeli government). Comments like this also immediately turn people off to whatever else you have to say to them.

I think there is a middle ground where we can both A) understand that October 7th is far from the start of this conflict and B) not write off the loss of innocent lives.

At the same time I’m conflicted because I worry that I sound like those Zionists who say “but what about the hostages” whenever you try to talk about the genocide as if not mentioning the hostages every time means you don’t care about them. I feel like the comments about October 7th have issues in what was said rather than was not said.

Maybe I’m completely wrong so I’d love to hear other people’s thoughts.

I was raised by Israeli parents/family in America. I feel that I was raised more Israeli than Jewish. We're Sephardic so I have darker features. My Grandfather was Moroccan, for example. My Grandma was born before Israel was established and her birth certificate technically does say Palestine but, she was a white Jew so it does not feel right to say she was Palestinian in the same way that Palestinians living in Israel proper say it.

Anyway the reason for asking is, I went to a Middle Eastern market the other day to purchase the viral Dubai chocolate bar. I was surrounded by Palestinian imagery, flags, keys, keffiyehs, it made me feel really happy to be honest, but also somber. Everyone was SO nice and helpful, I didn't expect anything different.

The cashier asked me where I was from. I know I could have said American, but, we both know he was asking about my decent like, where are you "from" from. I'm a terrible liar, I was so stuck. I was trying to avoid a faux pas by saying the truth that my parents were born in Israel but, my Grandparents are from all over, but I'm not a Zionist, and I support the Palestinian people's right to self determination etc.

I know when Israeli Zionists are abroad, they won't say they're from Israel for fear of mistreatment. But I don't want to say it because I feel like it's completely tactless with the genocide going on. What do I say next time this happens? Do I be honest? Should I just pick one of the countries my Grandparents came from?

These extremist ideas are normal within the Israeli society, and at the same time they're defending themselves, what a sick joke!

besides, I can recall a very recent video of an Israeli parent teaching their child about their rights in the lands of Lebanon!!

also tons of videos of the grandmother of the settler movement "Daniella Weiss" where she's blatantly and openly expresses racist sentiments against Palestinians.

And how Israel now is escalating the war to attack 5 countries combined...

Well, do you think these radical views may be more deeply seated among the younger Israeli citizens who might have a bit more critical thinking and can see the fact of the zionism on the internet, rather than older generations, which were completely brainwashed by their education system and their media narrative?

Full Interview

My whole take on Zionism is that Jews are an international community, as opposed to a nation with sole roots in Palestine. Sure they've been persecuted and murdered, but they've been persecuted and murdered in the holy land too. I don't see the point in occupying and taking over a strip of land just because of the bible. To me, a Zionist position essentially tells Jews that they aren't real citizens of their various countries. Of course, it also leads to numerous human rights violations, but that's been covered thoroughly on this sub. There would be nothing wrong with Palestinian Jews, but all Jews don't belong in Palestine and non-Jews should live side by side in peace.

My therapist is this way and no amount of talking about it helps. He’s said it’s Palestinians fault they don’t have their own state because they refuse Israel’s gracious offers time and time again, if they just stopped fighting they’d have their own state, he doesn’t think Jewish peoples lives are more worthy than others but is continuously anti-ceasefire, accusing Israel of killing children is anti-Semitic blood libel, etc.

Edit: Your flair system is broken and I can’t flare properly.

I’m strongly Antizionist and this sub is my favorite of any discussing Israel and Palestine. It’s my favorite because it takes antisemtism seriously and also is critical of Israel.

But I’m somewhat overwhelmed about misinformation or conspiracy theory accusations… I’m worried about it.

Things like.. rape denial, beheading of baby denial, Ashkenazi conspiracy on blood quantum or things like that.. saying Ashkenazi are European colonizers or converts…

Sometimes I don’t know what to believe or think. I don’t trust many sources these days, particularly about October 7.. I don’t want to deny atrocities or spread conspiracy theories. Does anyone else on this sub worry like I do? Have thoughts? Sources? Disagree? Agree?

I’m the only Jew among my anti-zionist friends, and one of the only anti-zionists (at least that I know of) among my Jewish family. In the past year I’ve listened to my friends say that my family deserves to die for their beliefs, and I’ve listened to family members say that my friends would cheer for my execution. Both sides seem to expect me to blindly agree with them, and neither side understands why I get upset when they describe people I care about like they’re soulless monsters. Neither side understands why I still care about people on the other side at all.

And the disgusting thing is that both sides have a point about the other. Some of my anti-zionist friends do sometimes treat me like their pet token Jew who they only tolerate because I’m “one of the good ones,” and some of my zionist family members do seem to be only a few cocktails away from openly calling for a total genocide.

Now I’m just sitting here alone wondering if I can avoid talking to anyone at all tomorrow. It’s just going to be the culmination of a year of people who I thought cared about me treating me like a zoo exhibit or a sports team mascot. A year of lost relationships, of unspoken agreements to just ignore each other, of demands that I fall in line 100% to whatever mindset the person talking to me has, because having even one opinion of my own that differs from theirs in the slightest is grounds for them completely cutting me off.

I guess that’s all I’m worth to anyone now. I’m so sick of this.

I’m an Arab Muslim. I mostly speak with other Arabs (both Muslim and not).

Contrary to what you hear in the media the animosity among Arab people in the west particularly was largely regulated towards Israel. Israel and Zionism.

I’m sad to say and see that animosity has largely grown to be directed towards Jews in general.

It’s not hate. It’s fear.

It’s become this toxic mentality of “will the Jewish person in my work place get me fired because I’m an Arab?”, “will my Jewish teacher/prof/boss single me out?”.

I’m not blaming those of you who are here, obviously.

But I can’t help but worry and wonder about how we (as a shared human community, as a community of Semitic peoples, as fellow ethnic minorities in our adopted countries) come back from this.

Professionally I work in history and law. So I’m often working with or speaking to younger generations who are frankly nowhere near ready to move past the last few months.

It’s impossible to speak to these kids about the holocaust or Semitic history without what’s happening in Gaza coming up. And at this point I struggle to see the point of trying to explain why the holocaust is still so important when people are increasingly just seeing it as some distant past that is now being used as justification to kill and maim.

I worry about to what degree Zionism has becoming synonymous with Jewishness. I can’t even count the number of times I’ve told someone “not all Jews are Zionist”. But that’s little recourse to young people who see fellow activists get black listed for speaking out about it.

That’s not to mention the great difficulty it has become to try to dispel antisemitic conspiracy theories when people see Zionist influence remove celebrities, black list lawyers, doctors and academics. How do I talk to a teen about how harmful these beliefs are when they are watching Zionists brag about the influence they have on American society.

I guess I wrote this out of frustration. So it’s mostly a rant. But I do want to hear from the Jews (and non-Jews) about what can be done about this. How do we rehabilitate our communities? Is that even the right term?

I'd like people's opinions on this because I really don't know where I stand.

I lost a good friend of mine at the Nova festival and I was devastated. I've had time to accept it and I'm in a better place now but I know the anniversary of her killing is going to be really hard.

But at the same time I'm completely aware that many Zionists use the Nova tragedy as leverage against the Palestinians to victimize Israel, when in reality Palestinians have been greatly disproportionately harmed in comparison to Israelis, and the Israeli army has significantly more lethal power

You may have heard the burning man festival will have a venue commemerating the people that were killed at the nova festival with a big thing that says "We will dance again" and obviously its causing a big outrage on both sides per usual.and i feel really conflicted about it because on one hand a lot of people perceive events focused on the lives lost at nova to be propoganda trying to down play Israel's response after 10/7. But on the other hand the jewish community is small enough that a large amount of us are connected in some way with someone that died and the desire to commemorate them on the anniversary at another musical festival feels innocent and healing for those with the right intentions. I kind of want to go along with other people that knew her because i feel like itd be a good space for me to be in during that time but also I know its bound to receive a lot of backlash that also comes from people with good intentions

I'm writing this posts without ulterior motives and I'm asking you to please leave your opinions thoughtfully and without aggression. Please don't tell me I'm victimizing myself because boohoo your evil israeli friend died well think of all the palestinian children. I fully acklowledge what the IDF is doing to Palestine is far worse than what Jewish people are going through. But my friend was an innocent progressive left wing 23 year old and I could really use some validation in belief that I'm allowed to mourn her fully without it being harmful to the free palestine movement.

What was this post supposed to accomplish? I’m so perplexed.

Yesterday, someone posted on this sub about their very real concerns about some antisemitic posters they saw at a campus encampment -- one that told Jews to leave Israel and go back to their "real homes" and another that read "Final solution" (yes, really). By and large, the response from commenters was fairly dismissive: "It's a big movement, we can't control what everyone says, maybe just talk to the organizers." One commenter directly gaslit OP, challenging them to show photo evidence of the "Final solution" poster. Another commenter made the (incorrect) claim that most Israelis have dual citizenship so it shouldn't be a problem for them to actually "go home!" Many of these comments have since been deleted or removed by mods, but not before getting dozens of upvotes. There was only one commenter who directly affirmed OP's feelings of upset and concern, and it didn't get nearly the number of upvotes that some of the more minimizing comments did.

I have seen this pattern -- trying to deny that antisemitism is alive and well, refusing to believe specific acts of antisemitism have happened -- play out again and again on this sub over the past seven months. I feel compelled to directly call this out: we are NOT doing our movement any favors by denying the very real acts of antisemitism happening across the country and around the world. In fact, when we do this, we are furthering Zionists' conflation of antizionism and antisemitism, and pushing away potential allies.

Antisemitism is absolutely on the rise right now, just like all forms of oppression. Antisemitism, racism, Islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, ableism, etc. are all different manifestations of colonialism, and they are all interwoven with one another. If you genuinely don't believe antisemitism is thriving, spend some time Googling QAnon (the conspiracy theory almost 20% of Americans believe) and their claim that Jews are trafficking children in order to drink their blood. It is no surprise that these bigots would take advantage of a movement opposing Israel's actions to tout their antisemitic messaging.

When we respond to our comrades' righteous feelings of fear, sadness, concern, and overwhelm at their experiences of antisemitism by trying to invalidate or minimize them, we directly feed into Zionists' claim that our movement is antisemitic. Denying real, lived experiences of antisemitism amplifies the antisemitism itself -- and gives it room to continue. Furthermore, when we deny these experiences, we push away any Zionist Jews (especially those who identify as leftist/progressive) who we otherwise might sway. I have seen so many formerly leftist Jews on other subs talking about how abandoned they feel by the leftist movement; while some of that sentiment is likely misplaced, our denial of the reality of antisemitism absolutely contributes to their feeling of alienation.

It is true that by and large, Jews in the US are relatively safe, and that Zionists' claims of danger are vastly overblown. But we don't do ourselves any favors in making that point when we turn a blind eye to real acts of antisemitism when they happen. The best way to win over those on the other side and to remain in integrity as a movement is to hold both truths: 1) the genocide of Palestinians is horrific and the occupation of Palestine must end, and 2) antisemitism is alive and well, and it is absolutely unacceptable.

Nothing is black and white. While it's certainly true that the "It's complicated" narrative has been used to justify overlooking Israel's illegal, violent occupation of Palestine for decades, it's also true that this situation is complex. We are talking about two groups who have both experienced historic trauma. The trauma of pogroms, repeated exile over thousands of years, and the Shoah is no justification for the violence Israel is enacting on Palestinians (especially since antisemitism was always a European, not an Arabic, issue), but when we try to simplify the complexities, minimize the antisemitic trauma that lies at the root of Israel's horrific actions, or deny that that antisemitism is still alive and well today, all we do is fuel Zionists' rhetoric. We must stop minimizing the existence of antisemitism, for the sake of our own movement.

I know this is obviously a lie because I know a Palestinian Jew who is the grandson of a Nakba survivor who fled to Egypt and traces his lineage back to Edomites (Canaanite tribe) that converted to Judaism. There are people who identify as Palestinian Jews. Not to mention that there are people of mixed heritage. But what I find really obnoxious about her argument is the conflation of nationality, religion, and ethnicity. Does anyone have any written pieces about the issues with the conflation of these terms? Looking for something more concrete to debunk the premise of her argument that this identity cannot exist.

I posted this in Jewish left, since it was my intended audience and I suspect everyone here already agrees with me. But.. posting it here too because I’m sure you all feel this sentiment and frustration with liberal Zionists.

I can’t stop crying since Rafah. And yet all I hear is, “It’s complicated”. Of course it’s complicated. It almost always is, or you wouldn’t get large swaths of people justifying the bad thing. But do you ever think it’s complicated when it’s your loved ones? Or do you care about what happened, feel anger towards who did it, need it to stop. So, we learn the history. Learn the details. But—learn all of it. And remember-“complicated” doesn’t inform morality. No mass evil was ever committed by thousands of soulless psychopaths all pulling the strings—it was enabled when we allowed ourselves justifications for all the devastation we saw before us. It happened when we put ourselves and our worldview before anyone else’s.

We go on and on with all this analysis. Dissect language. Explain in long form essays why certain things (like Holocaust comparisons or genocide or antizionism) should offend us. We twist and turn and dilute the main point. But we don’t realize how we are making ourselves the bad guys when we stop reflecting and questioning our own morality, our own complicity. We are more offended by what people think of Zionism than what Zionism has actually come to be. We don’t want to be conflated with Zionism/Israel yet we find anyone who says “not all Jewish people are Zionist” are the most antisemitic people on the planet. I think about the hospitals destroyed. We wring our hands over rivers and seas slogans, never mind the babies that will never see them and never know a clear sky.

We sleep in our warm beds at night and mock activists for being “privileged” and “ignorant” while we justify a slaughter by refusing to recognize what necessitated it from the beginning.

How can I stand before hashem and insist killing their babies was necessary to save mine. How can I ask him to understand I felt “left out” at protests and couldn’t support it. How can the world ever forgive those that didn’t stand up for the children of Gaza.

When I am for myself alone, what am I? If not now, when?

Free Palestine.

I’m thankful that more hostages have been rescued. But their lives are no more important than the lives of Palestinian civilians in the eyes of G-d. The sheer horror of this war will be a stain on Israel for decades to come.

• Medea Benjamin
  
• Norman Finkelstein
  
• Katie Halper
  
• Gabor Maté
  
• Ilan Pape
  
• Miko Peled
  
• Daniel Maté
  
• Nora Barrows-Friedman
  
• Naomi Klein
  
• Matt Lieb
  
• Antony Loewenstein
  

Please feel free to share other Jewish voices for Palestinian emancipation that inspire you. Let's uplift! <3

EDIT: By “people” in my title, I meant non-Jews

I have a friend who is very pro-Palestine, antizionist. They are white, raised Christian, American.

They recently quit their job for a few reasons, but one of the things they mentioned was that their work held an event at a temple that was very pro-Israel on their website.

I was explaining that unfortunately most temples are pro-Israel, and they were trying to tell me there are antizionist temples/spaces I can seek out and used JVP as an example — which obviously is not a religious organization.

I think the fact that the Jewish community has become intertwined with Zionism should be criticized, but it does make me uncomfortable when it comes from those outside the community — especially people who aren’t Palestinian. This is probably my own sensitivities/fragilities, but I hope this can be a space for me to talk about it.

I know my discomfort is nothing compared to the genocide in Gaza, but I feel like here is a place I can discuss where others might be able to resonate.

Would love to hear what others think, and if you had conversations that left you feeling similarly