Thoughts on anti-zionist political parties in Israel?

[u/stxrfish]

What do you all think of the liberal centrist part Yesh Atid and the leftist Hadash party, which allies itself with the Arab Ta'al party? Shouldn't the pro-palestinian groups form strategic relationships with these parties, and generally, the people who want peace from the inside of Israel? I feel like a lot of pro-palestinian groups can be quite reductionist. I understand that many are staunchly and uncompromisingly against the existence of Israel entirely. I just feel like things would be vastly improved at least if these groups worked together.

I don't know much about these political parties and would really love to hear about how they are perceived and any facts or opinions people have on them.

[u/echtemendel]

I was a member of Hadash (and its main constituent part Maki, the Communist Party) for about five years, and always voted for them. I still have a warm place in my heart for both - but over the years, especially since moving out of Israel, I became more and more skeptical about change via cooperation with the broad Jewish left in Israel. The reality is that you can't meaningfully change a political/economic system (these are never separate things) from its parliament. The picture which liberal democracies try to paint is that there's a kind of "market place of ideas" within them, where people share and debate different opinions and through that find common ground, convince each other about their specific beliefs/ideas, and move to execute changes in the system. This is based on the concept that ideology and ideas are the basis of political action, and well - this is absolutely wrong.

The reality is that the basis of political decisions are class-based economic interests. Ideology is then created (not necessarily in a self-aware process) in order to rationalize these actions and interests. The ruling classes of any society never make deep political changes against their own interests without a serious fight. In fact, not a single meaningful political (i.e. socioeconomic) change in history ever came as a result of a discussion, convincing, or any pure exchange of ideas - but through hard struggles (which more often than not were violent, too). Ruling classes don't make changes out of the goodness of their hearts, they give concessions in order to avoid destruction. I challenge you and anyone reading this to come up with even a single counter example. I never found any.

Now, to the situation in Palestine: the Jewish citizens of Israel, as a group, have a clear material interest in the continuation of the current existing system of Jewish supremacy. They might differ in the specifics (e.g. whether west bank settlements should be supported or not, whether a semi-autonomous Palestinian state should be established in the WB and Gaza or not, etc.) - but they will never willingly give up the enormous material gains which this system affords them, mainly access to resources (land, water, etc.) and capital. There's zero chance that any kind of meaningful change for Palestinians will come through the political system itself. At most, Palestinians (and especially Palestinian citizens of Israel) can only get some concessions under very extreme situations, and even these break apart the moment reality changes (e.g. Oct 7th). The only way to stop the oppression of Palestinians is by a complete decolonization of the land, and that will come about by a struggle of the Palestinians, not from the Israeli political system as a whole. What we as Jews can afford is supporting this struggle where and how we can.

That is not to say that cooperation between Palestinians and Jews, especially in Palestine itself, is not practical, wanted, or whatever. Quite the contrary - cooperation in this circumstance means exactly our true solidarity, through material means as well. And the progressive people in Palestine - Jews and Palestinians alike - should already be forming joint structures, since decolonization won't be an easy process, nor would it be the end of the struggle there (class struggle would come next). In this regards, the Communist Party and its youth wing - where Jews and Palestinians really do work together on a very deep level - are very important organizations which deserve our support.

[u/stxrfish → u/echtemendel]

Thank you for this amazing response! I am so glad I found this subreddit. I am also a firm believer in material class struggles over ideological pish posh. I find a groundedness in material reality to be a good basis for something more constructive and less docile. Anyway, I would be curious if you have any specific accounts or knowledge of strategic organizing between progressive Israelis and Palestinians working together, or a very good idea that you think could be fruitful?

[u/gatoescado → u/echtemendel]

Excellent application of historical materialism. I’m a millennial ex-Israeli, and the Israel I grew up in was probably much different than the one you did. But it’s amazing how accurate this materialist-based analysis remains true thru every generation.

[u/Adude113 → u/echtemendel]

I agree with much of what you say and I agree that revolutionary overthrow of the Israeli state will be necessary to win Palestinian liberation and a just and peaceful future. However I do not think it is the case that Israeli Jews as a group constitute the ruling all with a material interest in the maintaining the national oppression of Palestinians via apartheid, state terror, occupation and displacement, and so on.

It is certainly the case that the Israeli Jewish capitalist class and its political representatives promotes such an understanding (even through various ideologies, ranging from Kahanism to “polite” and “reluctant” apartheid) as you say they further this ideology to convince the masses Israeli Jews that it is a zero sum game between them vs Palestinians, so that the masses enthusiastically buy into this project. They have been really quite successful in doing that.

However, there are class divisions and massive economic inequality within Israeli Jewish society. There have been mass protests against inequality and the blatantly corrupt political system at various times. The government (regardless of which Zionist party is at the head) uses the “security threat” of Palestinian resistance to cut across any nascent class-based struggles or consciousness that begins to form. Often provoking violent escalations in order to do so. What this points to is that it is not in the material interest of masses of Israeli Jewish workers to live under Israeli capitalism, which is propped up by the national oppression of Palestinians. Even aside from the economic issue, the inevitability of violent “blowback” from Palestinian resistance further increases the precarity of Israeli Jewish workers, living in constant fear of violent attacks. This not me saying “aw poor Israelis” but it is me saying that the vast majority don’t have a material interest in maintaining the system of violence against and domination over Palestinians.

Edit because I hit enter too soon: With that being said, the intensity of the national chauvinism within Israeli society is a huge barrier. I don’t have a crystal ball but I don’t think we will see the vast majority or even a full majority of Israel Jewish workers reaching conclusions of shared class interest with Palestinian workers and oppressed vs the Israeli capitalist class (as well as the corrupt bigger Palestinian capitalists and their political representatives like Fatah which cooperate with Israel). But I think it is possible and necessary for a sizable chunk of Israeli Jewish workers to reach that conclusion. That might mean many reaching a consciousness that still does not grapple with the scale of oppression that Palestinians have faced for all of Israel’s existence, while being enough to struggle as a class. Struggle is messy. And even with that, we are far from that point, but consciousness is never fixed. The necessary task is to cut across the national divide and build class unity.

This also isn’t like an idealist wish for how Palestinian liberation can be achieved. Otherwise, violent Israeli reaction, that millions of Israeli Jews would partake in, will continue to end resistance efforts with massive bloodshed and ethnic cleansing.

[u/malachamavet → u/echtemendel]

Speaking of class analysis, I just had the image of Ofer Cassif and Yoseph Haddad having the Zhou Enlai/Nikita Khrushchev exchange.