Converting to Judaism while not believing in Zionism

[u/HomeboyCraig]

Hi all, I’m sorry if this isn’t the right place to ask - but is it possible to convert to Judaism if you don’t support Israel? I was in the process of converting in October 2023, but I stopped attending the temple I originally went to when they said that Israeli lives were worth more than Palestinian lives. Since then, I haven’t actually been able to find a temple or shul in my area that works with converts and isn’t pro-Israel (I live in Portland, OR)

I asked this question on another Jewish subreddit and was called a Hamas supporter and the overwhelming majority of responses said that I can’t convert if I don’t support Israel, but I figured I’d ask here as well.

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[u/alyesque]

Being anti-zionist definitely make conversion more difficult in terms of finding a rabbi who will see you through the process and finding a community you are comfortable in. That said, its not impossible.

Rabbis For A Ceasefire has an open communities directory (https://opencommunities.info/) you can look at. They list Havurah Shalom in oregon as a community who hasa made a public statement supporting a ceasefire and has clergy affiliated with Rabbis for a Ceasefire. Might be worth checking out.

That said, my own Rabbi has pointed out that theres a somewhat overwhelming amount of people looking to convert who are anti-zionist so some of these Rabbis may be a bit overwhelmed with that influx. Just something to keep in mind, but not something that should prevent you from connecting with a Rabbi to discuss the matter.

[u/iz_an_opossum → u/alyesque]

Can personally vouch for Havurah Shalom. Rabbi Benjamin is great but he doesn't focus on conversion much compared to general Havurah Shalom community Rabbi duties, from my own experience and what he's told me. So conversion with him is focused mainly on becoming part of the community. That said, he gave a couple drashes during High Holiday services about Palestine(/Israel) and when he leads a prayer about that's going on its focused on the people suffering and explicitly includes and names Palestinians and Palestine.

Edit: added 3rd sentence for clarification

[u/HomeboyCraig → u/alyesque]

Thank you so much, especially for the open communities directory and the Havurah Shalom rec!

[u/proletergeist]

It would be a trek to go in person, but the reconstructionist synagogue in Olympia, WA could potentially be a fit. I'm not sure if they call themselves anti-zionist, but the rabbi there has been vocally in support of ceasefire since October 7 basically, so I assume that's an accepted position in that congregation.  

Even further north, Kadima in Seattle (also reconstructionist) is explicitly pro-palestine and just hired a second Rabbi who was previously affiliated with Tzedek Chicago (read: very anti-zionist congregation).

I don't know if any of these rabbis do (somewhat) long distance conversions, but it might be worth reaching out to them to see if they'd be willing to help you out. Olympia is doable from Portland if you don't need to meet in person regularly. Seattle would be tougher, but at least they're still in the PNW. Good luck regardless!

Edit to add: Also iirc both of these congregations do full hybrid online services, so you can check out the vibe via zoom first if you want to. :)

[u/eitzhaimHi]

You absolutely are eligible for conversion if you are anti- or non-Zionist. That said, finding a rabbi, beit din, and community may be difficult. It's great that someone posted the Rabbis for Ceasefire directory, there are good people to be found there.

I hope that you continue your Jewish journey. We need Jews like you to maintain the tradition (and work against the occupation!) to get us through this terrible time.

[u/fmbsd]

It is possible! I don’t support Israel and was able to convert. My rabbi says that of the 3 Israels, it’s mandatory for her conversion students to care about Am Yisrael (the Jewish people) and Eretz Yisrael (the land of Israel) but optional to support Medinat Yisrael (the modern state of Israel). However, I’m guessing that her stance is pretty uncommon among converting rabbis. I’m on the east coast so I don’t know of any viable options in Portland, but you might contact JVP Portland and see if they know of any synagogues/rabbis who accept anti-Zionists. Good luck!

[u/[deleted] → u/fmbsd]

This resonates with me. I'm not sure why my post on here was down voted so harshly. I was trying to convey this exact meaning. 

[u/mellowgrizz]

I’m part of an organization called Jewish Voice for Peace which is a coalition of anti Zionist Jews who gather in protest of the state of Israel. There’s a chapter in Portland that could have some resources or recommendations on Jewish community that is pro Palestinian.

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[u/CarelessMembership10]

Adding my comment again b/c my previous comment was locked w/out a flair:

Yes I think it is. The simplest (but probably not the easiest) is to talk to your sponsoring Rabbi or find a Rabbi that works for you.

I say this as a recent convert (as of this summer) that was also in the middle of converting in Fall 2023. It was such a trying time for me. I was tempted to step back and not go through with it because the broader local Jewish community was so deeply Zionist. I realized I had a conflict of community but not a conflict of faith. But I was able to talk to my Rabbi through it. Happy to talk more about this ( live in a similar city to Portland)— but I truly feel that Judaism is about liberation and justice and I that’s why I gravitated toward it. And at some point I just refused to have Zionist beliefs be barriers to my faith.

Also the Beit din portion of conversion that I participated in (or heard about) didn’t ask specific questions about Israel. My Rabbi brought it up only to encourage me to explain my views and as a way to talk questioning as the practice of being Jewish. Anyway, I’m happy to talk more!

[u/[deleted] → u/CarelessMembership10]

Glad it worked out for you. It's good to have a rabbi that you feel comfortable opening to. Likewise, mine feels like an old friend.

[u/Calm_Possibility9024]

I've been having a hard time finding a shul because so many are so Zionist. I'm basically sucking it up while finishing conversion and building a spiritual community outside of traditional congregational life. I intentionally don't engage with anything Zionist that I don't have to. If asked, I say the bare minimum.

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[u/jeff_dosso]

they said that Israeli lives were worth more than Palestinian lives.

The rabbi explicitly and openly said that?

[u/[deleted] → u/jeff_dosso]

All human beings are equal in the eyes of G-d.

[u/HomeboyCraig → u/jeff_dosso]

Sorry for the late response! I was at work and then wandered off yesterday.

They said that calling for a ceasefire was inappropriate and that the hostages need to be recovered no matter the circumstances. If Palestinian civilians die, that’s the price they have to pay and maybe it will make Palestinians stand against Hamas. So while they didn’t say the exact quote I mentioned, it’s definitely how I interpreted it.

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[u/j0sch → u/jeff_dosso]

I also find this incredibly surprising, especially given much experience with Orthodox and Ultra Orthodox who tend to say some extreme things but never heard that said.

[u/iz_an_opossum]

Yes. I'm doing it.

Zionists will say it's not possible (my first Rabbi unexpectedly said I couldn't convert unless I was a zionist) but they're lying. Its bullshit for a few reasons, including Judaism =/= zionism and halacha demands the convert is treated the same (if not better) than the born Jew and this would and must naturally extend to the ability of a Jew to be anti-zionist

Edit: just read your actual post (forgot to check besides title) and highly suggest Havurah Shalom.

[u/BambiKilledFolkPunk]

Hey! I'm converting to Judaism right now and I was lucky enough to have an anti Zionist Rabbi to guide me! He recommended the Tzedek Chicago temple which is an anti zionist temple. This is probably the best option right now (don't worry, you can send them a message and go to services/convert online you don't have to live nearby. I live in Canada and that's who I'm going to be working with!)

Otherwise, do what I'm doing and read and annotate the Torah, it's a lot of fun and it's definitely helped me to feel more connected to Judaism!

Also, don't do what I did and try to find a temple while accepting they're zionist. My first temple experience was the Rabbi having me talk with an "Israeli" woman who, while talking about Jewish recipes, felt the need to tell me she only hates 2 kinds of people "germans and arabs" and then said, and I quote "I'm an Israeli, I'm violent"

Tzedek Chicago is probably our best option right now. I hope your conversion process goes well, brother :)

[u/Pitiful_Meringue_57]

It’s certainly possible. Most synagogues r gonna be atleast somewhat pro israel or zionist, but they can vary in to what extent they are. You are gonna have more luck if u open urself up to converting with someone who might be zionist but has some empathy for Palestinian lives and supports a ceasefire and hates netanyahu and whatnot. Not saying that’s the best position but it’s gonna be a lot more common than explicitly anti zionist. And if u aren’t comfortable being around any jews who hold zionist opinions, i just wouldn’t recommend converting. It’s a part of the community whether we like it or not and is largely inescapable if u want to live as a jew and connect/meet other jews. Again doesn’t mean u have to support zionism but if u hate all zionists i just don’t think it’s gonna be easy or pleasant to convert.

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[u/enharmonicdissonance]

Hey, I'm actually in an extremely similar situation right now and might have some advice! Do you mind if I DM you?

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[u/j0sch]

Depends what strain of Judaism you are converting into.

The Zionism movement is not a religious movement, but Israel holds a unique place in traditional Judaism (generally Conservative or higher) and Jewish holidays/practice/laws/etc.

Your views on the former doesn't matter and shouldn't even come up, but having issue with the role Israel plays/has played in Judaism would likely be detected and be an issue, if that were the case. Traditional Rabbis/synagogues/communities are generally supportive of Zionism as well, so you would definitely be surrounded by it through the process and being involved in those communities.

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[u/[deleted]]

Converting here. 

There is more than one flavor of zionism. For instance, I do not think that Israel is doing a good thing right now, but being that there has been a Jewish presence in the area for thousands of years, I think the Jewish people have a right to be there as much as anyone else with a history. Nobody should hold any more sway over the land of Israel than anyone else. 

Does this make me a zionist? I don't think so. But if someone wants to label me as one because of my previous statements, by all means, just make sure you place me in a camp away from the Netenyahus of the world.

[u/conscience_journey → u/[deleted]]

Respectfully, there is not more than one flavor of Zionism. That may have once been true more than a century ago when Zionism was largely theoretical, but it is not true today. Zionism has been defined by the facts on the ground, and those facts are ethnic cleansing, military occupation, racial supremacy, and genocide. "Liberal Zionism", which your rabbi seems to support, is the nicer face of those atrocities, but still ultimately supports them. There is no Zionist golden age these people can go back to where Israel is not committing crimes against humanity.

[u/reenaltransplant → u/conscience_journey]

I'd say there are many flavors -- many different bundles of beliefs people imagine Zionism to mean -- but (1) nearly all of these bundles of beliefs are fundamentally colonialist and genocidal and (2) the weird few fringe ones that maybe can find ways not to be, really should be much more uncomfortable sharing a name with the Zionism dominating the scene right now. There's a lot more we could say about why it's so problematic to be trying to reclaim the term Zionism after the last 100 years of its use rather than disown it.

Even the mildest bundle of beliefs I've heard someone call "Zionism" -- something like "Zionism is the emotional and religious connection Jews have to the historical land of Israel through Judaism and the ancient ancestry of many Jews, and we can revive that connection and culturally ingather on that land without harming anyone else" -- which is what a lot of Mizrahim imagined Zionism might mean before knowledge of new realities like the Balfour Declaration reached them -- seems to require giving Jews unique privileges to immigrate over other people with ties to that land, in order to actualize (therefore: apartheid immigration policy). Unless they somehow have a creative plan to build enough housing in Palestine for literally every human on earth of any faith that has distant ancestry and sacred history there, packing it as dense as Manhattan without harming the ecosystem (which they don't).

[u/[deleted] → u/reenaltransplant]

Would you advocate for a single state system with a pluralist government? 

This is actually what I mean when I say "nobody should hold sway over the land over any other group". 

I've had people tell me a single state like this, even with all sides equally represented, is still zionism because the Jewish people are still living there.

I've also heard this is the epitome of anti zionism. 

And so I'm confused. 

Either way, I feel this is the highest ethic we can achieve, although it might be greatest miracle G-d has ever pulled off.

It would require slicing out some malignant tumors, including US involvement,  and the people on the ground would have to start trusting each other, but indeed, stranger things have happened. 

[u/reenaltransplant → u/[deleted]]

Yes, I would say that a single state with a pluralist government (specifically, one that does not apply different policies to different ethno religious groups in any way) is the only solution that does not retain some form of Zionism. That is, I'm with the "it's the epitome of anti-zionism" side.

Governments like that of Iran claim pluralism by allowing different factions parliament seats on the basis of religion or ethnicity. For example, the 8,000 Jews remaining in Iran currently have one seat in Iranian Parliament, which is more than their proportion in the population would require. The Armenian minority in Iran has more seats, never mind that Iranian Armenians may practice any of several religions and Iranian Jews may also have other ethnicities (e.g. some Jewish Iranians are also Kurdish or Baluch Iranians.) Never mind how people of mixed parentage are supposed to be represented. They should just stop with the quotas and allow all Iranians of all ethnic and religious backgrounds the same opportunities to run for office.

Now, regarding the second issue you raise, of people wanting "Zionism" to mean opposite things:

Words mean what society chooses them to mean. When two factions want you to use words differently, and you're trying to decide which (if either) you'll side with, consider what each aims to achieve by imposing its preferred vocabulary.

Trying to claim that the term "Zionism" just means freedom for Jews to live in Palestine as equals serves to legitimize the propaganda that Jews uniquely needed a nationalist political program to stay on the land some of them had always been on. While Jews in Ottoman Palestine were not always treated ideally, neither was anyone else (the world had few if any non-discriminatory legal systems before World Was 1) -- and after that, Zionism in the form of Irgun and Haganah terrorism became the most powerful factor shaping the trajectory of the land.

Also consider what the most powerful self identified Zionists shaping what's happening on the ground want Zionism to mean. I'm talking the likes of Bezalel Smotrich, Daniella Weiss -- the policies folks like them favor have nearly always won out in the end, in terms of what happens on the ground. They would say Jews, and only Jews, have exclusive, God given rights to the whole of Eretz Yisrael (which they imagine to include Gaza and the south of Lebanon), and to hell with any Arabs remaining. This faction has been winning for 100 years. Constructing a system of terminology that blurs this Zionism with the idea that Zionism simply means "not ethnically cleansing Jews from Palestine" reinforces the exact polarity of debate the far right wants, wherein anti-zionism is obviously anti-semitism.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

That being said, my rabbi and I meet once a week to study and when we talk about Israel she keeps commenting that this stuff over there needs to stop. This is coming from a rabbi who not only lived in Israel for a significant time, but also married an Israeli.