‘ “We Palestinians aren’t going away.” Sorry to disappoint, but neither are Jews, and we have thousands of years of experience from the Romans to the Nazis of groups trying to destroy us, and we’re still here. But sure, give it your best shot.🤭 ‘
’ This is my branch. Maybe I'll leave "People love dead Jews" on the table lol.
Look, there's nothing inherently wrong with books about Palestinian culture, but when I see a pic of PFLP member, propagandist, and con artist Bisan Owda prominently displayed it makes me want to puke. ‘
(i’m not supporting zionists lol i’m trying to bolster our arguments)
zionists claim “hundreds of innocent people were taken hostage by hamas. a UNRWA teacher took people hostage in their basement!”
as well as ‘The safety and wellbeing of children in Israel continues to be at risk amid the escalated conflict. The indiscriminate firing of rockets at Israel has resulted in civilian casualties, including Israeli children, caused schools to be closed periodically, and impacted the mental and psychosocial wellbeing of Israeli children. Like children everywhere, children in Israel must be protected.‘ - savethechildren.com
and there are also reports of israelis being displaced from northern israel.
and another point they love to bring up is the music festival.
how do we refute these and make our cause worthy in their eyes? we have to be logical, or else they won’t get it.
Don't waste your time with people who make comments like this honestly. Save your energy for open minded people who actually seem curious about the Palestinian experience, even if they are currently Zionist.
I mean in some cases I am not even sure what to say... it's hard to prove a negative? Or disprove a negative? Whatever the case..? If they say "Bisan is a fraud" how am I supposed to disprove that?
If they say unwra is Hamas... how am I supposed to disprove that?
You really can't... point to people that aren't Hamas? Oh they'll point to the one person that had distant ties or was involved. They'll point to a time Bisan said something inaccurate.
One thing I'll say to the person who wanted to leave "people love dead Jews".... no one loves dead Jews more than that sub.
You win by understanding that there is nothing to 'win' in the first place from debating with zionists. I was once a strong Zionist who grew up in Jerusalem and was proud to call myself Israeli. I did not come to reject that ideology and that identity because I encountered anti-Zionists who were really great at debating and could counter all of my rhetorical points. I had these debates all the time online and IRL, and they never did a damn thing to change my perspective
Yoseph Haddad offers nothing of value and should just be ignored. He just exists to tell Zionists what they want to hear. He’s a deeply unserious person
I’ve talked about him with Palestinians from a whole range of political positions, everything from Muslim nationalists to liberal atheists who have lots of Jewish Israeli friends. And not a single one of them takes him seriously
You win by not engaging.
They sound ridiculous to someone who knows even a shred of detail. Engage with people who want to learn so they'll be immune to the silliness
If you are not already you might be interested in other (ex) Israelis anti Zionists who discuss a lot of these topics on how to engage with Zionists and refute some claims while living in Palestine on Instagram @elik_harpaz and @robeloviajwro and on YouTube their channels are The Hebrew Canaanite and Sound of Anarchy
Point out the logical fallacy. Not the content. It’s a distraction. Focus on the logic and ask further probing questions. The onus is on the accuser to make their case and provide evidence, not you. You’re going great! Keep your head up. It’s frustrating and has taken me a year to figure out how to handle the convos.
For blatant fallacies I just respond with something like this:
I enjoy this stuff - I studied logic in school and really enjoyed it.
My Meyers-Brigg type is also “The Debator” lol. I’m Lebanese American and from a southern village that’s been damaged. In the beginning this conflict was draining emotionally but I’ve spent the last year learning and studying and practicing my debate skills again.
I’ve started watching a lot of Chomsky/Finklestein/Dershowitz/Morris debates + other non I/P debates. Really interesting and I’ve learned a ton.
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u/matchacry Israeli 18d ago
i am as pro palestine as it gets, but apparently there is a PFLP member and con artist (Bisan Owda) on the table.
our cause is grounded on the principal of morality, and isn't that immoral? i look forward to hearing thoughts.
also, how do you guys refute arguments of Israeli children being killed? i always feel very helpless in these arguments since, yeah you get it.