r/JewsOfConscience • u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist • Nov 08 '24

News Maccabi fans, pro-Palestinians clash in Amsterdam

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/42260727/maccabi-tel-aviv-fans-clash-pro-palestinian-protesters-ajax-europa-league-match
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167

u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist Nov 08 '24 edited Nov 08 '24

Just want to point out that this story was all over X first and videos showed the Maccabi fans harassing people, singing genocidal chants, and vandalizing or tearing down Palestinian flags from locals.

An Amsterdam city council member summarizes what actually happened:

The Israeli fans instigated the violence after arriving in the city and attacking Palestinian supporters before the match, an Amsterdam city council member said.

“They began attacking houses of people in Amsterdam with Palestinian flags, so that’s actually where the violence started,” councilman Jazie Veldhuyzen told Al Jazeera on Friday.

“As a reaction, Amsterdammers mobilised themselves and countered the attacks that started on Wednesday by the Maccabi hooligans.”

It began when Maccabi fans attacked a Moroccan taxi driver & were burning Palestinian flags on Wednesday, the 6th - this is before the 'attacks' by locals began.

So there is ZERO doubt about who began this drama.

The corporate media and politicians are framing this as a random, bigoted attack.

More sources:

https://x.com/BenJamalpsc/status/1854907483296354574?t=7f4_tbAjz3TzWliaA57xHA&s=19

https://x.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1854839444928422191

https://x.com/GuyShahar93/status/1854583313312186435

https://x.com/ireallyhateyou/status/1854611633118810216

https://x.com/MiddleEastEye/status/1854726431269700016

During the actual match, the Maccabi fans disrupted a moment of silence for the victims of the mass flooding in Spain.

https://x.com/Johnpatrick500/status/1854742600906948665

https://x.com/leylahamed/status/1854651497604129256

https://x.com/leylahamed/status/1854661181333475799

There were clashes that followed - but the press is framing it as a 'pogrom' with no mention of how the Maccabi fans themselves started this drama and engaged in the violence and mayhem.

And of course, on Reddit, that same narrative is being proliferated - mostly by citing right-wing pro-Israel press. But even the American press is pushing that narrative.

In reality, it's football hooliganism and pent-up rage at Israel's genocide - since those Maccabi fans made it political.

There's certainly a lot of hate going around - but the pro-Israel response and framing of this story as a 'pogrom' or that these football fans are innocent bystanders? Absolute nonsense.

Maccabi fans previously, randomly, attacked Palestiniansan Egyptian in Athens, Greece back in March:

https://x.com/ireallyhateyou/status/1765797229267222999

https://x.com/ireallyhateyou/status/1765845804307058769?t=SD91HjqHZYH2ZgdEihut9Q&s=19

Picked up by TRT World:

https://x.com/trtworld/status/1766058782876995789

Longer version which shows the initiation of violence by Maccabi fans:

https://x.com/EretzIsrael/status/1765894972199325970

It's so wildly dishonest how this story is being reported, especially when this club's fanbase has a history of hooliganism.

-28

u/mashd_potetoas Nov 08 '24

I have been paying attention to both sides of this and trying to create a timeline in my head.

I have no doubt that tel aviv fans were acting like hooligans, and disturbing the peace and even instigating confrontation, but yet, there are at least 12 hospitalized so far, and all of them are Israeli. Does this still seem equal or warranted to you?

33

u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist Nov 08 '24

Well, you're off to a bad start by assuming I support this violence.

I don't.

I assume that because there's more of the other side than the Maccabi hooligans, they were unable to exact an equitable level of violence.

It was lopsided in favor of Maccabi early on, but clearly once the videos of their behavior circulated, it became a viral event and got out of control.

All this being said, I could not care less. I consider this to be football bullshit that is blown out of proportion because it's Israel involved.

People fight over this stuff all the time and it's never made into a geopolitical incident.

Maccabi fans should not think that screeching genocidal slogans/chants is normalized in Amsterdam. That's the core issue here.

-16

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '24

[deleted]

30

u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist Nov 08 '24 edited Nov 08 '24

That is bullshit - and it's a fact that this club's fanbase are violent, racist assholes.

And 'premeditated'? This story just broke and you're already making this accusation with zero evidence?

People circulated the videos of Maccabi fans being assholes and big surprise, it wasn't viewed positively.

I'm not obligated to give a shit.

The same fans you're crying about, ganged up on a Palestinian in Greece back in March.

EDIT:

An Amsterdam city council member summarizes what actually happened:

The Israeli fans instigated the violence after arriving in the city and attacking Palestinian supporters before the match, an Amsterdam city council member said.

“They began attacking houses of people in Amsterdam with Palestinian flags, so that’s actually where the violence started,” councilman Jazie Veldhuyzen told Al Jazeera on Friday.

“As a reaction, Amsterdammers mobilised themselves and countered the attacks that started on Wednesday by the Maccabi hooligans.”

Also, some antisemitism monitor on IG posted what they claim to be 'proof' of premeditation (by literally one guy) - except that is nonsense.

Maccabi fans attacked a Moroccan taxi driver & were burning Palestinian flags on Wednesday, the 6th - before the 'attacks' began.

-24

u/mashd_potetoas Nov 08 '24

I really didn't assume that, but your comment right here kinda hints that you think it's warranted:

Maccabi fans should not think that screeching genocidal slogans/chants is normalized in Amsterdam. That's the core issue here.

Feels a little like FAFO; because they were being assholes, they deserve being beaten up by mobs in the street.

But in any case, it isn't football shit blown out of proportion. This isn't a riot that started between ajax fans and maccabi fans, it's a mob who defined themselves as Pro-Palestinians deliberately chasing down people who are Israeli.

I understand opposing the Israeli government and it's decisions, and as I mentioned before, I saw what the maccabi ultras did, and it was disgusting, but honestly it was more in line with what football hooligans (extreme ones) do in these events.

I don't think we should hand wave what is clearly a political attack against these people.

27

u/_II_I_I__I__I_I_II_ Jewish Anti-Zionist Nov 08 '24

No, there's a difference between thinking something might have a reaction (i.e., Maccabi attacking taxi drivers, antagonizing locals, and burning Palestinian flags - all of which took place before the reaction) versus explicitly supporting or advocating for that/etc.

In geopolitics, the concept can be taken a step further - and it's called 'blowback'. Just because you attempt to understand why something happens doesn't mean you support the aftermath/reaction/etc.

I totally get that your sympathize with Maccabi and Israel, in general, but there's no need to invent this nonsense to support your argument.

I don't think we should hand wave what is clearly a political attack against these people.

Oh yea, I'm sure this is sincere concern for political attacks.