"Ask A Jew" Wednesday

[u/AutoModerator]

It's everyone's favorite day of the week, "Ask A (Anti-Zionist) Jew" Wednesday! Ask whatever you want to know, within the sub rules, notably that this is not a debate sub and do not import drama from other subreddits. That aside, have fun! We love to dialogue with our non-Jewish siblings.

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[u/OrbitingTheMoon34]

On what level are various groups of Jews aware of the similarities between the behavior of the Third Reich and the State of Israel? Some of the obvious similarities are: ethnic concentration camps, the quest for acquisition of land to live, mass demonization of a hated ethnicity, ethnic cleansing, mass murder, a government of fascists.

Is a supporter of Likkud aware of the similarity? Do the embrace it or suppress it?

How does a left wing Jew integrate the similarity of the Nazi Reich and the State of the Homeland of the Jew?

Finally, to what extent are Jews of all political persuasions aware that the behavior of Israeli Jews celebrating and murdering in Palestine overlaps the detestable behavior of Jews depicted in Jud Suss?

How do Jews expect non Jews to react when they see the similarities? I assume they expect us to feel guilty at noticing. What happens when we do not?

EDIT: I reread this and I understand how it can be read to be deeply anti-semitic. I don't like the fact that it is true and anti-semitic at the same time. A different way of stating this is "When is the Israeli citizenry going to understand that their nation state and people are perceived by others as acting with the same selfish evil that they have long been perceived as having"?

[u/sudo_apt-get_intrnet → u/OrbitingTheMoon34]

The wording of this question reads very much like the talking points of the alt-right antisemitic antizionist that this movement tries to reject. So much so that I don't feel comfortable engaging with the question itself because I can't help but be suspicious of its good-faith intentions.

"Homeland of the Jew"? Validating actual antisemitic Nazi propaganda movies? Asking what happens when non-Jews "notice" these similarities and don't feel guilty like we "expect" you to?

Your edit doesn't help either; if anything it makes it worse. "It is true and anti-semitic at the same time" implies antisemitism is true. Facts aren't antisemitic, but their framing definitely can be and do seem to be here.

[u/OrbitingTheMoon34 → u/sudo_apt-get_intrnet]

Homeland of the Jew is from a legal declaration by the Netanyahu government. I was tying the state of Israel and its behavior, to the legal reason for its existence.

I have watched Jud Suss. I have also been attentive to the war in Palestine and the social and mass media appearances of Jews in response to the same.

There is very, very obvious overlap.

I think this means something potentially terrible, that it is true and anti semitic at the same time.

I appreciate this is controversial. I also think it is real, and something that Jews, the people of Israel, and their allies should consider for their welfare.

Essentially this -- it is not in the interest of Israel, and Jews everywhere, to behave in the way Nazis behaved. Nor is it in the interests of Israel or Jews for Israel and the IDF to behave in the manner Nazis depicted Jews as behaving.

Facts aren't antisemitic, but their framing definitely can be and do seem to be here.

Ok. I am demonstrating how the existing facts can be framed to construct something that is anti-semitic. Thus, anti-semitic and most likely true.

What does one do with information like this? Wish it away? Ignore it to one's detriment? Change it?

It is a good faith question. The "agenda" in the good faith questions is a suggestion that Jews should be fully aware of the broader ramifications of Israeli behavior.

The world is full of stuff that is terrible and true and not morally fair.

[u/sudo_apt-get_intrnet → u/OrbitingTheMoon34]

Homeland of the Jew is from a legal declaration by the Netanyahu government.

I'll need a source on that one. "The Jew" is a very specific term that has fallen out of favor amongst anyone except hard-right racists. It is specifically meant to other Jews into a separate category from "The Goy"/"The White Man", treating us almost like a separate creature to the rest of humanity.

I have watched Jud Suss. I have also been attentive to the war in Palestine and the social and mass media appearances of Jews in response to the same.

This is saying that the antizionists are portraying Jews just like literal Nazi propaganda. This comment is literally saying the antizionists are just like the most antisemitic regime in history in their portrayal of Jews. That's what you're saying here. I can't see another way to interpret this other than you're saying the antizionists are antisemitic.

Ok. I am demonstrating how the existing facts can be framed to construct something that is anti-semitic. Thus, anti-semitic and most likely true.

Picking facts that sound racist and using it to justify racism is what literally all racists do.

Plenty of unjustified bigotry can be constructed via very true facts. It is a fact that some Arab Muslim nationalist groups partnered with Nazis during WWII. It is a fact that a number of Arab Muslim groups fighting for Palestinian liberation have previously and/or continue to engage in actual antisemitism. Zionists are constantly using these facts to justify their bigotry against Arab Muslims. Are you saying that Arab Muslims as some sort of collective need to answer for this?

Of fucking course they don't.

[u/OrbitingTheMoon34 → u/sudo_apt-get_intrnet]

Homeland of the Jews:

Israel's parliament has passed a controversial bill defining Israel as "the homeland of the Jews — asserting Jerusalem as the capital, Hebrew as the official language and that the right of national self-determination is "unique to the Jewish people." NPR.

This is saying that the antizionists are portraying Jews just like literal Nazi propaganda.

No, this is saying modern Israelis fascists (this is not all Israelis, obviously) and the IDF display themselves in ways that are consistent with the portrayal of Jews in Jud Suss. This is true and not good at the same time.

Picking facts that sound racist and using it to justify racism is what literally all racists do.

Correct. The set of facts I have identified can be combined in a way that has racist implications. That's the problem with these facts. It is not the answer to these facts.

Let's leave out Jud Suss. It is subjective as to whether that behavior depicted in Nazi propaganda overlaps that shown by the IDF in social media and the Fascists in the Israeli government. I think it does. But I am certain there are numerous differences.

The Holocaust is central to Jewish Identity and the creation of Israel. How do Jews emotionally integrate the similarities between the Holocaust and the current war?

[u/sudo_apt-get_intrnet → u/OrbitingTheMoon34]

Homeland of the Jews

"The Jew" != "The Jews". That "s" is really fucking important here. "The Jew" is an explicit attempt to construct some sort of "archetypal Jew" that one can ascribe characteristics to and then apply those characteristics at an individual level. The kind of thinking it implies is only done by racists and nationalists (with the overlap between the 2 being nearly a fully circumscribed circle).

(EDIT: I just looked into the law itself, and the actual term used is "HaAm HaYehudi" -- "The Jewish Nation/People". This is how Jews have historically referred to ourselves. The only time "Jew" is used as a noun in the entire bill is when they say that "those who aren't Jews" are allowed to keep their own holidays and days of rest, but in the English version even this gets replaced with "those who are not Jewish".)

Correct. The set of facts I have identified can be combined in a way that has racist implications. That's the problem with these facts. It is not the answer to these facts.

Looking at your comment history I think I might have a better example to help illustrate my point.

White people committed a genocide against the native population of this continent. White people invented the generational chattel slave breeding programs. White people engaged in mass segregation & redlining in this country, keeping anyone they didn't consider "white enough" out of anything considered "too high class" for anyone other than white people. White people invented Apartheid. White people committed the Holocaust.

Do you agree that white people, as a collective, need to answer for these? Do you allow for these to justify, as you'd put it, "anti-white racism"?

The Holocaust is central to Jewish Identity and the creation of Israel. How do Jews emotionally integrate the similarities between the Holocaust and the current war?

I, personally, don't view this conflict as any more similar to the Holocaust as any other genocide aside from the involvement of Jews. I think the emphasis on Holocaust comparisons (at least the ones from outside the antizionist Jewish community) is only because a) this genocide is being perpetuated in the name of Jews, and b) most people aren't really aware of other genocides, or if they are don't think about them much at all. If anything I'd say this genocide is much more similar to the Bosnian Genocide in act, intent, and (unfortunately) likely outcome.